clinton vs. sanders your vote? — Page 58

I can respect anybody who takes a principled stance. Richard Linklater started "Slacker" with the epigram: "Withdrawal in disgust is not the same as apathy."

But when you look at the headband hectoring people about voting for Bernie Sanders and then saying he doesn't vote in national elections at all, well, you know. Horrid. Pathetic. Pest.

kdogg36 said: "not voting can be a legitimate choice for someone disgusted with the system itself."

I disagree. I disagree emphatically. I disagree with every fiber of my being.

Plato said the true penalty for choosing not to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.

Tom Tomorrow said:

And, finally:

Updated On: 10/30/15 at 09:48 AM

I have enjoyed reading this thread, I see some good points on all sides.

I am confused about one thing. It is obvious to me that this Liza Headband is very hated. So I do not understand why the people who hate her most are the ones seem to care the most what she say. She seems to say things just to get attention, and by giving her attention you give her what she wants.

Petralicious said: "I have enjoyed reading this thread, I see some good points on all sides.

I am confused about one thing. It is obvious to me that this Liza Headband is very hated. So I do not understand why the people who hate her most are the ones seem to care the most what she say. She seems to say things just to get attention, and by giving her attention you give her what she wants."

Yes. And it derails almost every interesting thread on this board and makes it a much less fun place to visit.

It's turned this thread into a debate about not voting. When there is no one in this thread who is seriously advocating not voting except the one person everyone agrees is a troll.

On 4/29/15 ErikJ972 said: "I definitely will not sit out. I will definitely vote 3rd party. Unless she stops taking boatloads of Goldman Sachs money and convinces me she would be a good President between now and election day. As it stands right now, there's no way I could vote for Hillary Clinton with a good conscience. I think she's a horrible, awful, no good, very bad candidate.

I would make my own plea. Vote for who you believe in. Vote for who you really think will solve the problems that are important to you. Don't just vote for someone because they have a D or R after their name because you've been convinced those are the only people that have a chance of winning."

PalJoey, I agree with much of what you say; in particular, I certainly believe voting can still make a difference. But I can imagine a political system deteriorating so far that refusing to participate is the most honorable choice. And I can appreciate that one or two of my friends have concluded that things have already reached that point in the USA. I disagree with that, but it's a respectful disagreement.

Or they're not as naive as those who fall into the "it's your duty to vote!" trap, since that trap only helps to continue propping up a corrupt, unequal, unbalanced two-party political system. Without this system, the lobbyists and banks and big pharma wouldn't win. They need it. And the politicians need it so they can gain access to those perks & benefits doled out by the cronies. And it's just one big, nasty vicious cycle. The DNC and RNC are an evil empire built up by major corporations & donors.

Anyone who thinks so is an entitled drama queen.

Then how come there are so many voters on this board?

(Logical fallacy, I know, but it's just a joke anyhow. :))

Patrick Healy, in Saturday's NY Times, has what might be the last word on Bernie as politician.

Bernie Sanders Doesn’t Kiss Babies. That a Problem?

By PATRICK HEALY

OCT. 31, 2015

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/01/us/politics/bernie-sanders-doesnt-kiss-babies-that-a-problem.html

Updated On: 10/31/15 at 11:30 PM

With big losses yesterday in Houston, Ohio, Kentucky and Virginia, it is more important than ever that progressives coalesce behind Hillary. Losing the 2016 election to a Republican would have far-ranging and devastating effects on every progressive cause.

===

THE ATLANTIC: Liberals Are Losing the Culture Wars

Tuesday’s elections, which hinged on social issues such as gay rights and pot, call into question Democrats’ insistence that Republicans are out of step with the times.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/liberals-are-losing-the-culture-war/414175/

PalJoey said: "

With big losses yesterday in Houston, Ohio, Kentucky and Virginia, it is more important than ever that progressives coalesce behind Hillary. Losing the 2016 election to a Republican would have far-ranging and devastating effects on every progressive cause.

==

THE ATLANTIC: Liberals Are Losing the Culture Wars

Tuesday’s elections, which hinged on social issues such as gay rights and pot, call into question Democrats’ insistence that Republicans are out of step with the times.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/liberals-are-losing-the-culture-war/414175/

"Mr PJ may be right... Bernie is a non issue. .Miss Clinton may find herself competing with an African American again and thats bad for her....

Clinton has the lowest rating for honesty as American voters say 60 - 36 percent she is not honest and trustworthy. Trump is not honest and trustworthy, voters say 58 - 38 percent.
Carson gets the best honesty grades among top candidates, a positive 62 - 24 percent.
Carson also gets the highest grades as American voters say 56 - 32 percent that he cares about their needs and problems.

Is there a doctor in the house? There certainly is and at the moment Dr. Ben Carson is delivering a troubling diagnosis to Secretary Hillary Clinton," said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll. "With the election one year away, Ben Carson has surgically cut away all but one GOP opponent and taken a scalpel to Hillary Clinton's lead.

"But a year is an eternity in presidential campaigns and this race already has left some former front-runners on life support.

"Clinton gets crushed on character issues, pounded by Carson and closely challenged by Sen. Ted Cruz, Donald Trump and Sen. Marco Rubio."

Clinton's traditional lead among women evaporates as American voters pick Carson over the Democrat 50 - 40 percent. Women go 45 percent for Carson and 44 percent for Clinton, while men back the Republican 55 - 35 percent. In other matchups with GOP contenders:

• Clinton gets 46 percent to Trump's 43 percent;
• Rubio tops Clinton 46 - 41 percent;
• Cruz gets 46 percent to Clinton's 43 percent;
• New Jersey Gov. Christopher Christie tops Clinton 46 - 41 percent.

Sanders doesn't do much better against Republicans:

• Losing to Carson 51 - 39 percent;
• Getting 46 percent to Trump's 44 percent;
• Trailing Rubio 47 - 41 percent;
• Getting 44 percent to Cruz's 45 percent;
• Getting 42 percent to Christie's 45 percent.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2299

Updated On: 11/5/15 at 12:27 PM

She is happening.

Rubio? Good lord. I guess he should learn to hydrate.