A question about the Tonys and concept albums

[winston89]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 11:00am

I was just wondering something out of curiosity. If a composer writes a score with the intention for it to go to Broadway, but releases the score as a concept album prior to doing so, could the composer still be able to be nominated for the Tony for best score?

I know that the rules changed after Pete Townshend won the Tony for best score. Tommy, although turned into a stage musical was never written with the intention of it becoming one. I know that after that happened, the Tony committee changed the rules to state that a score must be at least 50 per cent original for it to be considered for nomination for best score. That is the reason why Once, for example, was never able to be eligible for the best score nomination. But, I was wondering about things like the concept albums for both Jesus Christ Superstar and Evita. They were shows that released a concept album prior to being on Broadway. Since this is the case, would those two shows be able to be nominated for best score with today's Tony rules? Unlike Tommy they were always intended to be on the stage etc. Just curious on this one.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 11:07am

Based on the fact that Aida released a concept album and still won for Best Score several years after Tommy they either didn't change the rules that quickly or have determined that concept albums are not enough to disqualify a score. Or, more likely, they are taking it on a case by case basis.

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 11:12am

Don't think there are any specific rules about this, more of a case by case basis. I would guess it has to do with whether the music was written with a stage version in mind, as well as how long between the album's release and the show. The concept album for "Aida", for instance, was always meant as a pre-cursor to what would ultimately become a Broadway show, whereas something like "American Idiot" was never specifically intended to become a Broadway show at the time of its release (or at least wasn't advertised as such). It's really a judgement call though.

[winston89]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 11:17am

Yeah, the case by case basis does make sense to me. So it sounds like if there is a concept album for a score that may not automatically disqualify it for being nominated for a Tony for best score.

[haterobics]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 11:25am

Sting will find out next year...

[ErinDillyFan]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 11:44am

Frank Wildhorn released "The Civil War" the Nashville sessions in 1998 and was nominated for best score Tony in 1999.

2007 Scott Frankel, Michael Korie, Grey Gardens were nominated for best score despite having already released a cast recording for the off-broadway production.

2012 Alan Menken and Jack Feldman, Newsies after most of the score had already been released as a movie soundtrack.

[tazber]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 11:52am

The Life also had a concept album and got a nomination for score.

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 12:04pm

2007 Scott Frankel, Michael Korie, Grey Gardens were nominated for best score despite having already released a cast recording for the off-broadway production.

The time between the Off-Broadway and Broadway productions was less than a year though, which I do think would be a factor in this decision.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 12:07pm

I believe the score nominations are determined on a case by case basis, as I see nothing in the rules regarding percentage of originality. I'm not sure why a concept album would have any effect when there are many scores that had London cast recordings and still won or were nominated for Tonys and vice versa.

No rules describe that a score has to be "written for Broadway".

[brdway411]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 12:09pm

Starlight Express was also a concept album, and it was nominated.

[darquegk]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 12:12pm

American Idiot is a unique case, because it was intended to be a response to the creation of "Tommy" in a way. Both original albums have linked songs with recurring characters and themes that don't entirely spell the plot out, with vaguely cryptic liner notes providing clues to the way the plot is linked. American Idiot was written with the intent of making a movie or TV special. The film failed to materialize, and the story, which continues to an extent on "21st Century Breakdown," was revised for the stage. The stage version was successful enough to make a movie possible again.

[winston89]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 1:09pm

darquegk,

Interesting, I thought (though could be wrong) that Green Day said/felt that American Idiot was meant more to be a modern day Quadrophenia rather than Tommy. For example both albums (American Idiot and Quadrophenia) have a similar storyline in that they are both about a young man trying to fit in and find their place. I know that Armstrong has said that he is a fan of Pete Townshend's writing and as I said earlier (once again could be mistaken) he viewed American Idiot to be more of a modern day Quadrophenia. As a big fan of The Who, I felt that Tommy was more fleshed out, with defined characters and you could get some semblance of plot just by listening. Quadrophenia, on the other hand, while it does tell a story it's story isn't that clear (Townshend did write an essay as Jimmy the opera's protagonist that made things a little more clear and put it in the liner notes, but it's hard to follow the opera if you haven't read that and most haven't/didn't.)

I think that with regards to storyline and obvious characters American Idiot is more like Tommy in that regard.

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 1:30pm

When the score of State Fair was nominated, the voters were told that they were only to consider the songs that had never been sung on Broadway. David Merrick famously passed out earplugs at the theater so voters could more easily ignore the songs that couldn't be considered.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 2:16pm

I don't think Tommy's score having originated as a concept album had anything to do with its tony eligibility. In those days, scores like Tommy (which had a score that had already been publicly performed live many times as well as in a movie), Gigi (also a tony winning score) and Meet Me in St. Louis (also nominated) were eligible because the shows had never been performed before on Broadway (the same way, for instance, that Happy End was eligible for best musical and best score when it premiered on Broadway in 1977 almost 50 years after it opened in Berlin)?

Now, however, the tony's tend to treat shows which have long histories as live performances as classics or revivals? I don't think the scores would now be considered eligible even if they were written for a film which has never been a musical stage work (the score of Once was not eligible).

I don't see the same issue with a score being recorded as a concept album as I do with the musical work for which the score was written having already been publicly performed off-Broadway or in some other medium.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 3:52pm

I know that the rules changed after Pete Townshend won the Tony for best score.

The rule of considering only the songs written directly for the theatre was applied to State Fair in 1996 after the Beauty and the Beast score eligibility kerfuffle.

Starlight Express was also a concept album, and it was nominated.

It wasn't a concept album. The London cast recording came first. Instead of a Broadway cast recording, they issued a studio pop version of selected songs. The song "Engine of Love" was released as a single in 1977, which became "He Whistled at Me" (1984), then became "Engine of Love" again (1987), then "He'll Whistle at Me" (1992).

The official title of the category is "Best Original Score (Music and/or Lyrics) Written for the Theatre". It was this wording that sparked the American Idiot debate. Had it been eligible, it's very possible it would have won.

[brdway411]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 5:18pm

Okay, then why do I have a tape from the Really Useful Company that says Starlight Express Concept Album with liner notes by ALW from 1987. Just saying.

Updated On: 4/9/14 at 05:18 PM

[tazber]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 5:36pm

The OLCR came out in 1984.

The one you have from 1987 is the US concept album that Mister Matt was talking about.

[brdway411]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 6:01pm

okay, not trying to start an argument, was just confused.

[Yero my Hero]

Posted: 4/9/14 at 8:44pm

2012 Alan Menken and Jack Feldman, Newsies after most of the score had already been released as a movie soundtrack.

I believe, between the new songs and the revised lyrics, the NEWSIES score was determined to be more than 50% new material. That is why it was eligible.

In fact, I remember the material the Tony voters received asked them to only consider the new material in their voting.