AUDRA GYPSY Reviews- Page 35

[SteveSanders]

Posted: 5/16/25 at 6:12pm

DAME said: "Critics? Who cares about critics? I care about what we felt as audience members. And for me.. I felt nothing."

Nothing could get a Dame transferred.

Sorry. Couldn't resist the Chorus Line connection.

[Bwaygurl2]

Posted: 5/16/25 at 8:04pm

OharaFosseWolfe888 said: "With each of your posts, you sound more ridiculous. But congrats on the new "trolling" technique."

That's two accusations of trolling...without actual engagement of my comments...if I actually wanted to troll this thread, I would copy it verbatim and make it a scene ala Eureka Day LOL

NO FOR THE LAST TIME, not liking Audra's performance alone is not racist. Why won't yall use the word unconscious bias? I never said that.

"

You said you derived"great joy" in "lighting the board up." That is troll behavior. The troll's intent is not to have a discussion but to irritate, which you admit is your goal. You have nothing to offer but buzzword salads.

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 5/16/25 at 8:18pm

DAME said: "Critics? Who cares about critics? I care about what we felt as audience members. And for me.. I felt nothing."

Indeed. Patti Lupone's Rose was flat and uninspired personally. 

[binau]

Posted: 5/17/25 at 3:16am

If you claim that fans are treating Audra unfairly because of their 'unconscious bias' around race you are suggesting implicitly that people are being racist. At least own what you are saying. But why won't you answer this question? If it were Kelli O'Hara or Marin Mazzie (RIP) on that stage right now, do you think people would be receiving their soprano voices differently to Audra's? I don't think you want to answer it because you know how ridiculous you're going to sound when the only way for your unconscious bias argument to be logically consistent is for you to then suggest that if Kelli O'Hara or Marin Mazzie were playing Rose right now they would be unconditionally lauded despite their soprano voices, which everyone including yourself knows is very unlikely to happen because the same people who are criticising Audra's soprano voice likely would be the first one to say they don't think O'Hara or Marin would be a better option for the same reason, once again showing that Race is not a relevant factor. 

 

Updated On: 5/17/25 at 03:16 AM

[SteveSanders]

Posted: 5/17/25 at 7:52am

binau said: "If you claim that fans are treating Audra unfairly because of their 'unconscious bias' around race you are suggesting implicitly that people are being racist. "

I don't necessarily agree with the original post(er) about unconscious bias and Audra's performance, but this assertion is inaccurate as even the most cursory Google search will reveal.

 

 

[binau]

Posted: 5/17/25 at 8:15am

Literally the first search that comes up on google is "When a person expresses racial bias, then that bias, conscious or not, is racism.". Even if in good faith we agree that unconscious bias is in itself not necessarily racist, but if it then causes people to be treated unfairly because of race of course we have to accept it is racism - for example, if a hiring manager has an unconscious bias that a black candidate is less suitable for a role and therefore choses a white candidate instead it is racism.

You can see the logic tested in a high-end AI model specifically for this case:



 

You can hide behind words but it is obvious what the implicit suggestion is here - and there is no point arguing about the semantics I'm sure we can agree that what the person is suggesting is that the reaction to Audra's soprano voice is being treated unfairly because of her race. So I ask again: If Kelli O'Hara or Marin Mazzie was performing this role, how would it be received (i.e. let's keep the individual variable of soprano voice constant but change the race variable back to white)? The only way the poster's argument can be kept logically consistent is if he would then argue that Kelli O'Hara or Marin Mazzie would have received unanimous raves for their Soprano voices unlike Audra's mixed reactions given the unconscious bias towards her so I'm waiting eagerly to hear how they could possible argue this with a straight face. 

 

Updated On: 5/17/25 at 08:15 AM

[SteveSanders]

Posted: 5/17/25 at 8:26am

And here is the first result when I do the search:

"No, implicit bias is not the same as racism, though it can contribute to racist outcomes. Implicit bias refers to unconscious attitudes and stereotypes that influence our understanding, actions, and decisions, while racism is prejudice or discrimination based on race. While implicit biases are often learned through socialization and can lead to discriminatory behavior, they are not the same as conscious acts of racism."

I'm not hiding behind anything, but language and meaning, particularly on a charged issue like this, do make a difference and should be used with great care ... by all parties. 

People can have an unconscious or implicit bias about race (or a myriad of other factors) but not perpetuate discriminatory outcomes, particularly at a systemic level, because of it. The former is not equal to or does not automatically lead to the latter.

But I leave it to you, the original poster, and others to continue the likely unresolvable debate about reactions to Audra's performance.

Updated On: 5/17/25 at 08:26 AM

[binau]

Posted: 5/17/25 at 8:36am

yes exactly and is he not claiming that the implicit bias is leading to racist outcomes - specifically that it is causing people to unfairly criticise Audra’s performance. If he isn’t suggesting this, then what is the problem and what are we actually arguing about? 

[OhHiii]

Posted: 5/17/25 at 9:01am

Dancingthrulife2 said: "Do take into consideration that some here have the ulterior motive (mods included) to support a likely proven Trump supporter at the cost of Audra."

Not to rehash but this is lunacy.

[binau]

Posted: 5/17/25 at 9:17am

What is also toxic about the whole Nicole thing is that if Audra wins and people ask in future ‘why did Audra win?’ there will always be that narrative that Nicole’s loss might have in part be caused by a political backlash which would be widely unfair to Audra. This should NEVER have even entered the conversation. On the other hand, if Nicole wins not only did she have to face one of the greatest Broadway stars of all time in one of the greatest roles, she also had to face the backlash and a win would be unambiguous belief that she was the best pick. In other words, people are devaluing Audra’s Tony already through their actions. Just yet more unintended consequences of the toxicity of this culture causing more problems and hurting the very people you think you support. 

Updated On: 5/17/25 at 09:17 AM

[joevitus]

Posted: 5/17/25 at 3:40pm

I don't think that's very likely. And saying it would actually be unfair to Audra if she wins strikes me as a very bad argument. It's possible this will go down as an Ethel losing to Mary moment (whichever way it goes), but with the number of times Audra's won, most people will take it as further proof of just how talented she is or how much the Tony voters love her. 

[SmokeyLady]

Posted: 5/17/25 at 3:42pm

Any world in which there is a tie?  Has that ever happened at the Tonys before?

[Kad]

Posted: 5/17/25 at 4:05pm

SmokeyLady said: "Any world in which there is a tie? Has that ever happened at the Tonys before?"

There have been 10 ties in Tony history, 3 of which were for Best Actress in a musical in 1958, 1962, and 1968. The last tie in any category was in 2009. So they happen, but it's incredibly uncommon (and most of the ties were before 1980).

[SmokeyLady]

Posted: 5/17/25 at 4:14pm

Would make for a wonderful tv moment.

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 5/17/25 at 4:49pm

OhHiii said: "Dancingthrulife2 said: "Do take into consideration that some here have the ulterior motive (mods included) to support a likely proven Trump supporter at the cost of Audra."

Not to rehash but this is lunacy."

This is not if you've been following the Trumper on Broadway thread and have your posts nixed by the mods multiple times without notice.

[SmokeyLady]

Posted: 5/17/25 at 5:07pm

stupid

[joevitus]

Posted: 5/17/25 at 6:04pm

Dancingthrulife2 said: "OhHiii said: "Dancingthrulife2 said: "Do take into consideration that some here have the ulterior motive (mods included) to support a likely proven Trump supporter at the cost of Audra."

Not to rehash but this is lunacy."

This is not if you've been following the Trumper on Broadway thread and have your posts nixed by the mods multiple times without notice."

Gosh, I wonder why...

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 5/18/25 at 6:55am

joevitus said: "Dancingthrulife2 said: "OhHiii said: "Dancingthrulife2 said: "Do take into consideration that some here have the ulterior motive (mods included) to support a likely proven Trump supporter at the cost of Audra."

Not to rehash but this is lunacy."

This is not if you've been following the Trumper on Broadway thread and have your posts nixed by the mods multiple times without notice."

Gosh, I wonder why..."

We wonder the same thing. ^^
Btw, the recent display of flexibility on treatment of Trumpers is truly fascinating :)

Updated On: 5/18/25 at 06:55 AM

[Huss417]

Posted: 5/18/25 at 1:47pm

Dancingthrulife2 said: "joevitus said: "Dancingthrulife2 said: "OhHiii said: "Dancingthrulife2 said: "Do take into consideration that some here have the ulterior motive (mods included) to support a likely proven Trump supporter at the cost of Audra."

Not to rehash but this is lunacy."

This is not if you've been following the Trumper on Broadway thread and have your posts nixed by the mods multiple times without notice."

Gosh, I wonder why..."

We wonder the same thing. ^^
Btw, the recent display of flexibility on treatment of Trumpers is truly fascinating :)"

This is the thread that keeps going off the rails. First people were being called racist for not liking Audra's performance and now also we are flexible on Trumpers.

I'm waiting to see what will be next to score this a trifecta.

[Robbie2]

Posted: 5/18/25 at 2:21pm

Audra is out again 

This afternoon at Gypsy, the role of Rose will be performed by Tryphena Wade

[MadsonMelo]

Posted: 5/18/25 at 2:22pm

Audra is out today, hoping she comes back on tuesday as will be the day I'll see the show.

P.S.: Rush seats are non refundable even when the main star is out, right?

[joevitus]

Posted: 5/18/25 at 10:49pm

Dancingthrulife2 said: "joevitus said: "Dancingthrulife2 said: "OhHiii said: "Dancingthrulife2 said: "Do take into consideration that some here have the ulterior motive (mods included) to support a likely proven Trump supporter at the cost of Audra."

Not to rehash but this is lunacy."

This is not if you've been following the Trumper on Broadway thread and have your posts nixed by the mods multiple times without notice."

Gosh, I wonder why..."

We wonder the same thing. ^^
Btw, the recent display of flexibility on treatment of Trumpers is truly fascinating :)"

Flexibility on treatment of Trumpers sounds like a sex act that occurs at the RNC. Has zero to do with anyone here, however. 

[Robbie2]

Posted: 5/21/25 at 1:40pm

Robbie2 said: "Audra is out again

This afternoon at Gypsy, the role of Rose will be performed by Tryphena Wade"

 

Audra out again today TW on!

[binau]

Posted: 5/21/25 at 1:44pm

I wonder if Audra should/will have a fixed alternate... 

[Robbie2]

Posted: 5/21/25 at 1:46pm

binau said: "I wonder if Audra should/will have a fixed alternate..."

 

true, it's as if these leads no longer can handle doing 2 shows on Wednesday or Saturday especially during TONY season as many are calling out for the matinee