BEST Musicals that DIDN'T win BEST MUSICAL- Page 3

[wickedfan]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:06pm

ozone-I don't see a movie version of Company or Follies anywhere, are they standard? Did they do nothing to revolutionize musical theatre then? Oh, but wait, alas there is a movie version of Phantom of the Opera! How could I be so dumb? Of course that means if a Broadway show has a movie version of itself than it is a revolutionary piece of work that has become groundbreaking to Broadway. Duh! Thanks for clearing me up.

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:07pm

Ragtime times infinity!

And of course, Gypsy and ITW....but they're givens.

[bythesword84]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:08pm

Everyone needs to just go back, read LittleFish's post and understand that its 100% correct.

[wickedfan]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:09pm

I am now going to bring myself out of the Nine vs. Dreamgirls debate and go back to the subject:
Into the Woods
West Side Story
Gypsy
Grand Hotel
Chicago
Promises, Promises
Dreamgirls
The LIght in the Piazza
Ragtime

The thread isn't on what should've won (all though some of these shows ultimately deserved to win) but what were some of the best musicals that did not win Best Musical.

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:10pm

Don't get me started on RAGTIME v. LION KING!

I'll always come down on the side of the big cat!

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:14pm

robbiej --- Even though I choose NINE, that was very nicely put. Dreamgirls had some flaws in the book toward the end of the story. It loses steam (which is something I hope they develop a little better in the film).

And ozone, as much as I love, love, LOVE Dreamgirls (add another LOVE, even)... it's not a landmark show the way that Oklahoma!, A Chorus Line, Show Boat, Company or Hair was it their day. How exactly did Dreamgirls revolutionize theatre as we know it? It was just an amazing show, but didn't change the course of history. Neither did Nine, for that matter. But Nine was grand opera. It was a Da Vinci. It was a rare champagne with brilliant, theatrical vision. It dove into the mind of a childish, legendary director. Dreamgirls was a big pop hit, it was retro-cool, also with a brilliant theatrical vision. It was about racism, and sacrifice, and professional compromise. It was a well-mixed cocktail.

Voters just decided they wanted opera & champagne that year.

Updated On: 11/7/05 at 05:14 PM

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:17pm

Well said, best12!

"Where is the NINE film?"

It's called 8 1/2...it's the movie the musical is based on.

Updated On: 11/7/05 at 05:17 PM

[Shilo_Bway]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:18pm

Wicked-2004
Little Women- 2005

[pab]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:18pm

I totally agree with the last post of best12bars. I could not have said it better myself.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:19pm

"2001: THE FULL MONTY
2002: URINETOWN
2004: CAROLINE, OR CHANGE
2005: THE LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA"

Agreed a hundred times.

[Broadwayluva]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:19pm

love Avenue Q, but Wicked not winning was definitely a huge upset, i'm sure i can speak speak for a lot of people when i say that you should have seen my face when they called Avenue Q that night

[theatreboi11]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:20pm

I love how great musicals are now based on if they have a film out or not?? Come on people, what ever happened to theatre being its own spectacular medium!!!! Nine is a brillant show! The music is gorgeous! So what if they aren't making a movie staring Beyonce and *gag, hopefully not, but likely* Fantasia? Some people!!!

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:20pm

I enjoy how this thread is supposed to be where everyone can post their own personal opinions about the topic but when they do, they get bashed. If anyone or anything is being juvinielle, its LittleFish. I'm sorry but why take the time to type that. Just keep it to yourself WE GET IT!!! You think Avenue Q deserved to win and it did. Well we beg to differ. And we have the right to show that. Move on.

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:21pm

I think that arguement is an even split.

I feel AVENUE Q was a fresh concept that didn't need pyrotechnics and humongous spectacle to sell it. It is what it is...and it's brilliant.

I am glad it won in 2004 and I know a lot of people agree with me.

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:28pm

It's interesting the way you put that, best12bars.

Because I will always consider DREAMGIRLS to be the best American pop-opera created. For all the grandeur of score, NINE just seemed to be much ado about a midlife crisis. Glorious to watch...terrific craft...but not wholly satisfying.

[paradox_error]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:30pm

I'm glad Avenue Q one, but I was rooting for Caroline, or Change...

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:32pm

I saw the OBC of both DREAMGIRLS and NINE and for me there was no comparison -- DREAMGIRLS by a mile. NINE has a good score, but major book issues in Act II where the narrative is muddled and gets bogged down with psychobabble. I've always found rather cold, antiseptic and emotionally distant in many ways as well -- more like something to be admired than something that really hits you in the gut. I also could never stand the interminable Grand Canal scene. Tommy Tune gave it a brilliant staging (and Leveaux's was good, but not as inspired and clever) that was so amazing it obscured many of the flaws. A very good show, though.

DREAMGIRLS was on an entirely other level and Michael Bennett's staging is the single greatest piece of direction I've ever seen in 30+ years of theatregoing. So electrifying and cinematic and breathlessly paced that I literally couldn't believe what I was watching. Add to that some of the most epic, passionate, powerfully intense performances ever on the Broadway stage with music and design to match and you have an experience for the ages. It was so overwhelming at the time, I all, but wanted to scream and crawl out of my own skin from the tension Bennett was able to build and then release at will. A true masterpiece and an experience that, 1000 shows later, I'm still waiting to see topped or even equaled. Nothing in 24 years has even come close.

Updated On: 11/7/05 at 05:32 PM

[theatreboi11]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:33pm

"Mid life crisis"

Have you ever seen this musical?????

Dig a little deeper!

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:40pm

"DREAMGIRLS was on an entirely other level and Michael Bennett's staging is the single greatest piece of direction I've ever seen in 30+ years of theatregoing. So electrifying and cinematic and breathlessly paced that I literally couldn't believe what I was watching. Add to that some of the most epic, passionate, powerfully intense performances ever on the Broadway stage with music and design to match and you have an experience for the ages. It was so overwhelming at the time, I all, but wanted to scream and crawl out of my own skin from the tension Bennett was able to build and then release at will. A true masterpiece and an experience that, 1000 shows later, I'm still waiting to see topped or even equaled. Nothing in 24 years has even come close."


So, so, so SO true.

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:42pm

The fact that DREAMGIRLS didnt win the Tony (what did win, anyway?) is a total and complete travesty if you ask me. The original production was the most electric, thrilling, and stirring peice of theater I've ever witnessed on a stage.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:43pm

NINE won.

[gavrochegirl]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:44pm

Ragtime and Dirty Rotten Scoundrels should've taken home Best Musical. Not sure about Wicked/Q because I haven't heard a lot of Q, not to mention I haven't seen it.

[pab]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:45pm

WiCkEDrOcKS, was that even a serious question? Have you read any of this thread?

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:45pm

AS far how DREAMGIRLS influenced the genre, I've heard from several tech geek friends of mine (so I can't site a formal source or anything) that because of the incredible demands and Robin Wagner's and Tharon Musser's set and lighting designs, a new state of the art computerized light/sound board had to actually be invented to run the show (Bennett apparently had to get the producers to sign off on it because it was ridiculously expensive). The board became the standard of the industry for years and, I've heard, that without it, many of the famous stage effects in shows like CATS, LES MIZ, PHANTOM and other epic spectacles wouldn't have been possible. I don't know all the details, but I've heard this repeatedly through the years.

Updated On: 11/7/05 at 05:45 PM

[best12bars]

Posted: 11/7/05 at 5:46pm

robbiej --- That could be a partial reason as to why people gravitate toward Dreamgirls as a subject more. The characters are of an era, country, and age that is more accessible to them. Nine is about a middle-aged Italian filmmaker, struggling with inner demons at a spa in Venice. The youth of America could have trouble with that one. Even if they can reach out to the "foreign" situations and characters, comprehending his complex emotions would be a tough one. Mid Life can be a scary thing when it hits you and you realize you're on the downside of mortality, and you're not a kid anymore.

Admittedly (or thankfully?), when I first saw NINE, I still was a relative "youth" myself. I grew up in Kansas, but my father was a filmmaker, and I was raised on Disney, but also Fellini and Truffaut as well. We went to art films regularly (I wasn't yet 10 years old), and they were a part of my early artistic exposure in life. That played into my experience when I saw NINE. I didn't have trouble understanding the character's emotions, even the mid-life crisis part. Perhaps I related it to my father? Who knows. We can only bring our own experiences into a theatre with us, and I won't presume to know what others were and are.

Now that I'm older (closer to Mid-life Crisis Land, hehe), I appreciate Guido's inner plight even more.

Not to say that I appreciate Dreamgirls any less. I actually agree with you about it being the "best American pop opera created." Although with quite a lot of spoken dialogue passages, I might classify it as a poperetta.

Updated On: 11/7/05 at 05:46 PM