Broadway 2021: What To Expect When New York Turns The Lights Back On- Page 2

[HogansHero]

Posted: 12/31/20 at 1:33am

blaxx said: "Masks will definitely be mandatory upon reopening, especially if they are looking at a summer/ fall reopening."

So long as masks are mandatory it is preposterous to think there will be a Broadway reopening. Even if it were allowed by the state, they would never get enough bodies in the theatre to make it viable.  

[blaxx]

Posted: 12/31/20 at 2:10am

HogansHero said: "blaxx said: "Masks will definitely be mandatory upon reopening, especially if they are looking at a summer/ fall reopening."

So long as masks are mandatory it is preposterous to think there will be a Broadway reopening. Even if it were allowed by the state, they would never get enough bodies in the theatre to make it viable. "

Preposterous how? That's exactly how it worked in the West End before the lockdown and people were certainly attending - did you have too much drama with your coffee today?

[Phantom4ever]

Posted: 12/31/20 at 3:08am

Would would requiring masks be such a problem for Broadway re-opening? If anything, I would think that a mask rule would encourage more people to come, not fewer. People will be talked into going because the masks will at least give the appearance of safety.
And let’s remember how often people COUGH at Broadway shows. There is generally at least one person coughing in the theater at any given moment. Maybe the masks will encourage them to muffle the sound a little. I wonder how that’s going to go over. I could definitely see it causing arguments and fights.

I for one am beyond desperate to get back to Broadway, and I don’t care if they have to hose me down with bleach before the show.
Many parts of the country seem to be going on with life as normal, and anecdotally in my circle it seems like half of the people are locked in their houses til this is over and the other half are going to bars restaurants and movies like it’s 2019. I think there will be pent up demand once Broadway reopens and that there are more people who don’t care about virus restrictions than we care to admit.

Updated On: 12/31/20 at 03:08 AM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 12/31/20 at 9:26am

@Blaxx, there are two components, what the state allows and what the theatre-going public is willing to do. New York is not London, which is why we are not in lockdown, and why we have 3-4 times fewer cases and significantly lower numbers in general. The idea that New York is going to allow masks but not require distancing is preposterous. Dr Fauci says early Fall; I think he knows what he is talking about. Additionally, I do not think a critical mass will form while we are wearing masks, with very limited exceptions. 

@Phantom4ever "Would would requiring masks be such a problem for Broadway re-opening? If anything, I would think that a mask rule would encourage more people to come, not fewer. People will be talked into going because the masks will at least give the appearance of safety."

First, even here, people say they will not attend with masks and these are hardcore theatregoers. And we will never allow theatres to reopen when there is "at least ... the appearance of safety. That's not how NY rolls.

"I for one am beyond desperate to get back to Broadway, and I don’t care if they have to hose me down with bleach before the show."

Shocking but ok.

"Many parts of the country seem to be going on with life as normal." That's a jaw dropper. More cases, more hospitalizations, more people in ICUs, more deaths is not "life as normal." 

"anecdotally in my circle it seems like half of the people are locked in their houses til this is over and the other half are going to bars restaurants and movies like it’s 2019." Not in New York. 

As I said, "preposterous."

 

[KKeller6]

Posted: 12/31/20 at 11:58am

I think the issue is this is what Fauci said about mask wearing only 2 weeks ago...
But mask usage and enhanced hygiene is likely to continue “several months into the second half and beyond of 2021,” he added

So, how can we have a Broadway re - opening in fall of 2021 when the man believes mask wearing may need to continue beyond the second half of 2021? Something's gotta give. I'd like to hope we have a re-opening next fall even if continued mask wearing is recommended. And, hey, don't get me wrong, I'm all for the hope that we can put away our masks by next fall.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 12/31/20 at 12:37pm

The idea that New York is going to allow masks but not require distancing is preposterous. Dr Fauci says early Fall; I think he knows what he is talking about

100%

[Phantom4ever]

Posted: 12/31/20 at 1:02pm

My point is that it is non-New Yorkers who are going to truly bring Broadway back, and by and large they seem more than ready to come sit in theaters again. 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 12/31/20 at 1:17pm

Travel is down 54% from a year ago so that is patently false. It will take years for international tourists to come back in the numbers they were before the pandemic. 

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 12/31/20 at 1:52pm

Have not been back in the city for over 5 years. Wife will not ride subways and buses anymore. We see the way crime has come to our neighborhood .The city looks like the Wild Wild West and mayor and governor turn a blind eye to it.How crime ridden the city is can be seen on You tube.Tourists are taking note of it

Cannot see how Broadway can come back with all the rules and regulations. New Penn station looks great but crime there and Grand Central turn us off. As much as I want to see Times Square now no idea if and when we will ever go back.. I remember it 50 years ago.Although all of the big theaters were still there they are,all gone now. The new Times Square is too sanitized

Hope it is over soon and city gets back as much as it can. Many businesses are gone now and the restaurant industry has been gutted. I will remember the city as it was. Happy New Year to all

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 12/31/20 at 1:52pm

Have not been back in the city for over 5 years. Wife will not ride subways and buses anymore. We see the way crime has come to our neighborhood .The city looks like the Wild Wild West and mayor and governor turn a blind eye to it.How crime ridden the city is can be seen on You tube.Tourists are taking note of it

Cannot see how Broadway can come back with all the rules and regulations. New Penn station looks great but crime there and Grand Central turn us off. As much as I want to see Times Square now no idea if and when we will ever go back.. I remember it 50 years ago.Although all of the big theaters were still there they are,all gone now. The new Times Square is too sanitized

Hope it is over soon and city gets back as much as it can. Many businesses are gone now and the restaurant industry has been gutted. I will remember the city as it was. Happy New Year to all

[kdogg36]

Posted: 12/31/20 at 2:50pm

Mr Roxy said: "I remember it 50 years ago.”

Note that there were 1,444 murders in New York City in 1970 compared to 437 through December 20 of this year. 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/31/20 at 2:51pm

It's been a devastating year all around the world. We see what happens when the needs of public health clash with the needs of human beings for things like contact, groups, etc.  There have not been any easy answers during this deadly pandemic and unfortunately, in every major crisis, there are people who try to capitalize on it.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 12/31/20 at 5:11pm

@Roxy lol poor misguided Roxy

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/31/20 at 6:13pm

I think more people than many suspect will come back. Especially after most people are vaccinated. And especially if there continues to be positive results with it. You can bet parents will want to get their kids out. And even with masks I suspect The Lion King, Aladdin, Phantom, Gazillion Bubble Show and even Wicked will do the best out of the gate. I would suspect that even by next fall when Fauci says it should be safe, it will still be suggested that masks be worn for a period.

As far as travel, yes, it is down but there are restrictions and people are not comfortable. I bet as they get vaccinated and get that digital passport, they will be ready to travel. It was crazy in London with people trying to get to transportation to travel for the holidays. The train stations were insanely packed. While travel is down here, people are traveling outside of the holidays. 

We can predict and guess. Only time will tell.

[Phantom of London]

Posted: 12/31/20 at 6:24pm

I suspect Broadway will initially open with masks and social distancing, to give the impression that they’re taking Covid seriously, but very very quickly the mask and the distancing will drop away.

However you will still have the same lines for the bathrooms.

[dangeresque49]

Posted: 12/31/20 at 10:34pm

I think there will be some pent up demand domestically that can fill international travel being down as people reallocate unspent travel money more locally,

But the whole broadway structure is tilted towards demand being so high that they can bait rich people into premium seating where they make the most profit. A lot of the people who prop up the demand buying out cheaper seats are in bad financial positions so I don't see the premium seating structure being a factor for a while.

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/31/20 at 10:50pm

dangeresque49 said: "I think there will be some pent up demand domestically that can fill international travel being down as people reallocate unspent travel money more locally,

But the whole broadway structure is tilted towards demand being so high that they can bait rich people into premium seating where they make the most profit. A lot of the people who prop up the demand buying out cheaper seats are in bad financial positions so I don't see the premium seating structure being a factor for a while."

My friend who company manages said she feels pretty much the same. And all of the people buying up the cheaper seats may not be in bad financial positions. I am not but still buy discounted seats. And I am not rich. I think a lot of seats, including those considered premium, may go for discounted prices in the beginning. They will sell and help drive up the demand for premium seats. But rich people like a bargain too.

 

Updated On: 12/31/20 at 10:50 PM

[Fosse76]

Posted: 1/1/21 at 7:42am

HogansHero said: "(3) We may or may not be able to force vaccinations of the general public"

Leally speaking, that's not true. The U.S. Supreme Court upheld the authority of states to enforce compulsory vaccination laws in the case of Jacobson v. Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Obviously there are people who'd refuse,  but that's an enforcement issue. 

"but there is no question that employers can and so can licensees and contract partners so a lot of this will be moot if there is a fringe that remains steadfastly anti-vax."

Employers can, due to the at-will nature of state employment laws. However, that is not true for union and contract employees. The unions would have to agree to require it's membership to be vaccinated. Contract employees lifeless would have to agree. 

Regardless, employers who require vaccinations are legally liable if the employee has an adverse reaction to the required vaccination,  so it's going to be a mixed bag as to which businesses require it, absent a state mandate.

(4) Once masks are not mandated, some (maybe many) people will continue to wear them anyway. One of the great revelations of Covid has been that we are getting less sick with other things because we are masked and sanitized etc."

It is not clear yet if a vaccinated person can spread the virus,  so masks will likely be required by businesses until a high percentage of the population is vaccinated. And I hope businesses keep up many of the new cleaning protocols after we've cleared this pandemic. 

[Fosse76]

Posted: 1/1/21 at 8:04am

HogansHero said: "If you are vaccinated you don't need a mask."

That's not quite true. There is no evidence yet that the vaccine stops the spread of the virus. So while a vaccinated person is not likely to get sick,  they may still pass on the virus to others. The masks are meant to protect others from getting the virus, not the wearer (though masks do offer some protection for the wearer).

Phantom of London said: "I suspect Broadway will initially open with masks and social distancing, to give the impression that they’re taking Covid seriously, but very very quickly the mask and the distancing will drop away.

However you will still have the same lines for the bathrooms."

No. There will be no social distancing. The financial circumstances of running a show on Broadway do not permit them to operate at reduced capacity.  Most shows need to sell at least ¾ of the house or more just to break even.

"And FOH (actually, everyone working at the theatre) will have to be vaccinated. No brainer."

With the exception if bar and merchandise staff, all FOH are unionized,  so the employer cannot unilaterally mandate a vaccination as a condition of employment.  That requires them to work with the unions to require it,  though I don't imagine any of them will object. However, the employer is legally liable for any adverse reactions if it is mandated. 

That said,  New York officials have been discussing making vaccinations mandatory for New Yorkers, which would make my above statements moot. Whether they will or not remains to be seen. 

"Re who can afford, it's not just the 1% who were buying tickets to Broadway before and won't be after. That's only about high demand shows, and we are not going to see a lot of those anytime soon.I think the idea that we will have 6-8 shows in the fall seems reasonable with maybe some holiday add-ons."

I'm not so sure. There is a strong desire by most people to get back to normal,  and even now there is tourism in the city,  both foreign and domestic. Many of the affected people in unemployment were likely not heavy travelers,  and they aren't any more or less likely to travel than they were prior to the pandemic. I do agree tourism won't be the same, but I think it will be higher than is anticipated. 

But I agree, fundamentally, that many shows will suffer, some will delay reopening, and only a few will reopen right away. 

Updated On: 1/1/21 at 08:04 AM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 1/1/21 at 2:34pm

@ Fosse76 re union and contract employees. To the extent that's the case, I don't think it is a practical one. Unions that don't want this protection for its members will be few and far between (and in particular as to theatrical unions) and contract employees rarely have long-term contracts. Also, as I think a lot of people will henceforth be working remotely, this will be partly mooted. And re legal liability, that's easily solved legislatively if it presents as an issue.

Re spreading with immunity, my premise is limited to when masks are no longer mandated. There will be mandates until we achieve herd immunity and/or determine that immune people do not spread the virus. (My inclination is that they do not in an infectious way (I think that the virus that might be spread is the same "ghost" virus that is found on surfaces), but I'm not advocating that). Once we reach or approach herd immunity I think we will let the unwashed fend for themselves.

Finally, I think liability for mandates by employers (or others) is theoretical but not real. First, I think few will have significant side effects that are actionable, and second causation would be a tough road (meaning one would have to prove that they would not have been vaccinated but for the requirement and that's not going to be easy). 

[uncageg]

Posted: 1/1/21 at 2:55pm

The last I heard, last week,  is that vaccinated people can spread the virus. They should not get it themselves but can spread it.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 1/1/21 at 3:32pm

uncageg said: "The last I heard, last week, is that vaccinated people can spread the virus. They should not get it themselves but can spread it."

We have heard so much about this virus, much of which has turned out to be incorrect. There is no authoritative info on this.

[Phantom of London]

Posted: 1/1/21 at 3:35pm

HogansHero said: "@ Fosse76 re union and contract employees. To the extent that's the case, I don't think it is a practical one. Unions that don't want this protection for its members will be few and far between (and in particular as to theatrical unions) and contractemployees rarely have long-term contracts. Also, as I think a lot of people will henceforth be working remotely, this will be partly mooted. And re legal liability, that's easily solved legislatively if it presents as an issue.

Re spreading with immunity, my premise is limited to when masks are no longer mandated. There will be mandates until we achieve herd immunity and/or determine that immune people do not spread the virus. (My inclination is that they do not in an infectiousway (I think that the virus that might be spread is the same "ghost" virus that is found on surfaces), but I'm not advocating that). Once we reach or approach herd immunity I think we will let the unwashed fend for themselves.

Finally, I think liability for mandates by employers (or others) is theoretical but not real. First, I think few will have significant side effects that are actionable, and second causation would be a tough road (meaning one would have to prove that they would not have been vaccinated but for the requirement and that's not going to be easy)."

I am not really saying distancing and masks will be the norm, what I am saying theatre will open up with distancing and masks to get the public back and look that they’re tough on Covid, producers will have to take a hit initially.

Once the audience is back and comfortable. There will be a natural distancing anyway, with patrons tepid about coming back to the theatre, so you might as well put distancing to look tough on Covid. By which time the papers and and chat shows saying “how good it is to be back at theatre” and “god, I didn’t realise how much I missed it.”  then maybe as little as 4 weeks later the masks and distancing will be out of the box office window.

Main thing is getting the audience back, this is going to be easy.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 1/1/21 at 4:13pm

@Phantom, the point about the distancing was Fosse's not mine, but I agree. Broadway will never reopen with distancing. It is not viable and producers are not going to take that kind of hit because (a) it makes no sense and (b) they can't afford it. Every production has already taken a hit and will take more, right in the solar plexus.

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 1/2/21 at 9:28am

Does anyone think that in order to build up sales they won’t start out by having rush, lottery, etc? Will they only have the more expensive ticket options? What do you think? I’m curious.