Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 12/10/23- Page 2

[HenryTDobson]

Posted: 12/12/23 at 6:26pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "JasonC3 said: "Sometimes I completely forget a show is still running (i.e., MJ) until I look through the grosses. It is interesting how some shows stay in the conversation (here or elsewhere) and others don't."

Buzz is a relative thing and can depend on our social circles and media consumption, but yes I agree MJ is just quietly printing money. Chatter about HAMILTON has also quieted down, from my vantage point."

What do you think the lifespan is for Hamilton? I agree the chatter has died down but clearly they're still doing well (similar to Book of Mormon). Do we think Hamilton makes it to 2030? 2040? Beyond?

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 12/12/23 at 7:00pm

HenryTDobson said: "ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "JasonC3 said: "Sometimes I completely forget a show is still running (i.e., MJ) until I look through the grosses. It is interesting how some shows stay in the conversation (here or elsewhere) and others don't."

Buzz is a relative thing and can depend on our social circles and media consumption, but yes I agree MJ is just quietly printing money. Chatter about HAMILTON has also quieted down, from my vantage point."

What do you think the lifespan is for Hamilton? I agree the chatter has died down but clearly they're still doing well (similar to Book of Mormon). Do we think Hamilton makes it to 2030? 2040? Beyond?"

Hamilton will not close, at least in our lifetimes. 

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 12/12/23 at 9:05pm

EDSOSLO858 said: "HenryTDobson said: "ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "JasonC3 said: "Sometimes I completely forget a show is still running (i.e., MJ) until I look through the grosses. It is interesting how some shows stay in the conversation (here or elsewhere) and others don't."

Buzz is a relative thing and can depend on our social circles and media consumption, but yes I agree MJ is just quietly printing money. Chatter about HAMILTON has also quieted down, from my vantage point."

What do you think the lifespan is for Hamilton? I agree the chatter has died down but clearly they're still doing well (similar to Book of Mormon). Do we think Hamilton makes it to 2030? 2040? Beyond?"

Hamiltonwill not close, at least in our lifetimes."

Yes it will. The Lion King on the other hand...

[TheGingerBreadMan]

Posted: 12/13/23 at 2:57am

I didn't realize that Sarah Paulson would be such a draw. I'm happy to see it happen though.

[quizking101]

Posted: 12/13/23 at 6:41am

HOW TO DANCE IN OHIO has already hit the comp sites for this week after somehow managing to not pop up during previews. That and the last minute addition of the celebrity producers - on top of this paltry gross, means it’s not long for this world at all.

I’m only partially surprised that HARMONY is doing as bad as it is. Yes, it has the Manilow name recognition and it’s meeting the moment with everything we see going on overseas, but I wonder if the world is just too raw right now for a show like this? (Poor quality notwithstanding)

[RippedMan]

Posted: 12/13/23 at 8:29am

HenryTDobson said: "ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "JasonC3 said: "Sometimes I completely forget a show is still running (i.e., MJ) until I look through the grosses. It is interesting how some shows stay in the conversation (here or elsewhere) and others don't."

Buzz is a relative thing and can depend on our social circles and media consumption, but yes I agree MJ is just quietly printing money. Chatter about HAMILTON has also quieted down, from my vantage point."

What do you think the lifespan is for Hamilton? I agree the chatter has died down but clearly they're still doing well (similar to Book of Mormon). Do we think Hamilton makes it to 2030? 2040? Beyond?"

Unlike the lion king Hamilton lacks the visuals of some of the other big hits and it’s very wordy and long. I think it’ll be around for awhile but eventually the interest will dry up once the next big hit is established. 

[OhHiii]

Posted: 12/13/23 at 8:37am

Harmony is a prime example that "timely" can often have an opposite impact on sales than desired. Almost immediately after the events started unfolding overseas, they immediately started using messaging along the lines of "The world forgot them because they were Jewish." It's very clearly not been something people are willing to see right now given the trauma that's being experienced on a daily basis right now. I imagine the Barrymore will be open come February for a March/April new show (looking at you, Boop).

I root so hard for How To Dance In Ohio and there's no question that it's a massive accomplishment for the team, but it's not hard to imagine the Belasco will be vacant in not so many weeks. At the end of the day, the show has to stand on its own and it doesn't hold up.

Could see the Kerr come vacant in the new year, but they could stick it out for a bit, but pretty guaranteed there'll be a new show there in the Fall at the latest. I think this would be a better house for Sunset Boulevard than the St. James which has been rumored. Sunset would benefit from having fewer seats to sell at a higher price than moving 1500 seats over at the James. One of the reasons Merrily is running away with these grosses and ATP is because the Hudson is small.

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 12/13/23 at 10:17am

OhHiii said: "Harmony is a prime example that "timely" can often have an opposite impact on sales than desired. Almost immediately after the events started unfolding overseas, they immediately started using messaging along the lines of "The world forgot them because they were Jewish." It's very clearly not been something people are willing to see right now given the trauma that's being experienced on a daily basis right now. I imagine the Barrymore will be open come February for a March/April new show (looking at you, Boop).

I root so hard for How To Dance In Ohio and there's no question that it's a massive accomplishment for the team, but it's not hard to imagine the Belasco will be vacant in not so many weeks. At the end of the day, the show has to stand on its own and it doesn't hold up.

Could see the Kerr come vacant in the new year, but they could stick it out for a bit, but pretty guaranteed there'll be a new show there in the Fall at the latest. I think this would be a better house for Sunset Boulevard than the St. James which has been rumored. Sunset would benefit from having fewer seats to sell at a higher price than moving 1500 seats over at the James. One of the reasons Merrily is running away with these grosses and ATP is because the Hudson is small."

Maybe once Jordan Fisher and Ani DiFranco finish their contracts, depending on the grosses at that point, we could see Hadestown closing 

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 12/13/23 at 10:40am

I’ve never seen anything comp quite as hard as Ohio has in the past 24 hours. Must really be in bad shape. 

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 12/13/23 at 10:53am

BorisTomashevsky said: "I’ve never seen anything comp quite as hard as Ohio has in the past 24 hours. Must really be in bad shape."

We still have eight new musicals opening in the spring at the moment that will likely give away as many comps. It’s just sad that investors will start steering away from new work unless an A-list celebrity is in the cast. 

[GottaGetAGimmick420]

Posted: 12/13/23 at 10:56am

1. This morning Harmony started a mass discount campaign to save 40% on tickets if you book ahead before the end of the year

2. I have massive respect to the team at H2DIO for seeing through Hal's last show. That being said, you have to take a look at the situation. If a building is on fire and you have a limited amount of water ($$$ and resources), why dump it all on this one instead of saving for the next? Sponsorships, partnerships, celebrity co-pros... You can't say they haven't tried everything. But I would've saved the reserve resources for Gun & Powder (which is in their dev pipeline)

3. There's tourists out there with limited funds that may be willing to spend some $$$ on Broadway. But with the state of inflation, it should be no shock that civilians don't see tickets as a priority. But try telling that to the general partners and producers worth millions of dollars in their brownstones.

[OhHiii]

Posted: 12/13/23 at 11:44am

GottaGetAGimmick420 said: "3. There's tourists out there with limited funds thatmay be willingto spend some $$$ on Broadway. But with the state of inflation, it should be no shock that civilians don't see tickets as a priority. But try telling that to the general partners and producers worth millions of dollars in their brownstones."

Ya'll are so funny when you bring up the "oh these producers are worth millions and are demanding such high ticket prices meep meep meep" when tickets (outside of the monster hits that are leveraging dynamic pricing) are quite literally priced to keep shows running by way of covering operating expenses. Shows are expensive to run. We are on BROADWAY World talking about these things. Broadway is a COMMERCIAL market, this isn't a massive nonprofit, it's business. Outside of the aforementioned monster hits, it is not hard to get a ticket under $80 for most shows right now. So looking at the highest earners and their pricing (which supply and demand allow for them to charge higher prices as peopler ARE paying them) and applying that across the shows that are struggling is such a stretch.

That said, tourists who are in town who would typically see more than 1 show in a trip, may in turn see just 1 due to higher costs in terms of hotels and travel. 

[bdn223]

Posted: 12/13/23 at 11:47am

Harmony has a smaller hill to climb then Ohio, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get notice for either next week for 12/30 or 1/8.

I saw someone say they think Akimbo will likely post after the holidays and it wouldn't surprise me either, and a 15-16 month run for a such a small show that's had a terrible marketing campaign and next to no non-theater community support is nothing to poopoo  about. While Kimberly Akimbo will also likely close at a loss at this point becoming the only the 4th Tony Award winner for best musical to do so in the past 30 years, I would blame most of that on its fall opening at the tail end of the pandemic market, and its David Stone not having the money in place to run a proper post award Tony winning ad campaign. If anything it would be more so a signal to producers that small prestige off-Broadway transfers that are banking on awards season to sell tickets can no longer risk a Fall transfer without having a major name attached. Then again its not as if this is new information for producers or David Stone, just looking at his model for Next to Normal to turn a profit; open at the as close to awards season cut off as possible to minimize losses and need for marketing spend, and become nearly entirely reliant on award season buzz and work of mouth to sell the show.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 12/13/23 at 12:16pm

I think it’s just a tough to market. But I’m surprised word of mouth isn’t more buzzy. Everyone I know who has seen it has loved it. 

[Ensemble1686998462]

Posted: 12/13/23 at 12:39pm

I know Barry Manilow is not Theater Royalty like Tom Stoppard or popular with young theater people like Ben Platt, but I would have thought overall the traditional theater goers (middle age/older, white, Jewish, with money to burn, according to others on this board) who also helped made Leopoldstadt and Parade hits would have also come to Harmony as well. I know Harmony isn't as good as those two but subject wise it surly appeals to the same target audience. 

[OhHiii]

Posted: 12/13/23 at 1:12pm

Ensemble1686998462 said: "I know Barry Manilow is not Theater Royalty like Tom Stoppard or popular with young theater people like Ben Platt, but I would have thought overall the traditional theater goers (middle age/older, white, Jewish, with money to burn, according to others on this board) who also helped made Leopoldstadt and Parade hits would have also come to Harmony as well. I know Harmony isn't as good as those two but subject wise it surly appeals to the same target audience."

We are just in a very different place in world affairs than we were when Leopoldstadt and Parade were hits. We cannot underestimate the impact the trauma of October 7th and all that has followed isn't deterring that audience from seeing a show that would very much be triggering for many. Seems the producers' thought was to lean into it, but I'm not surprised that messaging strategy is proving to backfire. Plus, it got nowhere near the reviews Leopoldstadt and Parade got, not by a mile. So there's really no reason to see it with the confluence of those factors.

[emlo99]

Posted: 12/13/23 at 1:12pm

quizking101 said: "HOW TO DANCE IN OHIO has already hit the comp sites for this week after somehow managing to not pop up during previews. That and the last minute addition of the celebrity producers - on top of this paltry gross, means it’s not long for this world at all.

I’m only partially surprised that HARMONY is doing as bad as it is. Yes, it has the Manilow name recognition and it’s meeting the moment with everything we see going on overseas, but I wonder if the world is just too raw right now for a show like this? (Poor quality notwithstanding)"

1) What are comp sites? Do you have to be “industry” in order to be on them?

2) As a Jewish person, I was sooo excited to see Harmony, but their post regarding what’s going on ‘overseas’ did throw me off a bit and I haven’t gone yet. I will most likely wait until the closing notice then search for tix.

[MayAudraBlessYou2]

Posted: 12/13/23 at 1:23pm

bdn223 said: "I saw someone say they think Akimbo will likely post after the holidays and it wouldn't surprise me either, and a 15-16 month run for a such a small show that's had a terrible marketing campaign and next to no non-theater community support is nothing to poopoo about. WhileKimberly Akimbowill also likely close at a loss at this point becoming the only the 4th Tony Award winner for best musical to do so in the past 30 years, I would blame most of that on its fall opening at the tail end of the pandemic market, and its David Stone not having the money in place to run a proper post award Tony winning ad campaign. If anything it would be more so a signal to producers that small prestige off-Broadway transfers that are banking on awards season to sell tickets can no longer risk a Fall transfer without having a major name attached. Then again its not as if this is new information for producers or David Stone, just looking at his model forNext to Normalto turn a profit; open at the as close to awards season cut off as possible to minimize losses and need for marketing spend, and become nearly entirely reliant on award season buzz and work of mouth to sell the show."

Umm, Kimberly Akimbo DID launch a brand new ad campaign. Totally new print ads and a much more effective TV spot using "This Time."

And setting aside the fact that you cant always afford to wait around for the right season and/or house to open a Broadway show, the market right now is so drastically different from what anyone in the business is used to. The Broadway League released their big demographics report the other day. And it included info on buying habits...and I truly believe, based on first hand knowledge, that it is much much worse than what they reported:

"In 2022-2023, the surveyed theatergoers bought their tickets an average of 34 days ahead of the performance date, a 27.7% decrease from the 47 days reported in 2018-2019.

New York City residents purchased their theater tickets much closer to the date of performance (24 days ahead of time), compared to domestic visitors, who purchased on average 39 days ahead. On average, international theatergoers purchased 29 days before the performance, however 27.8% of all international visitors purchased the day of the performance."

I'm honestly seeing enormous amounts of buyers who don't think about their purchases until the week of the show. Forget 34 days in advance, or even the 24 days in advance for locals! This last minute ticket buying habit is a huge problem for the industry to grapple with. How do you properly gauge anything with little advance sales to speak of? How do you know when to institute promotions, and know which performance times will actually need them most? Will the showtimes just suddenly sell out at full price 4 days out? (have literally seen this happen). How do you accurately decipher the reach of your ad spend, when people will see your ads yet still not make the purchase until weeks later?

As for the predictions of a impending closing notice for Ohio, the producing team are very much committed to telling this particular story and widening the scope of what is possible for representation on Broadway. Yes, it's a commercial production, but they have secured money to burn in order to give life to this show and their mission for a bit. It certainly won't run forever unless they have some miracle turnaround. But they are prepared to burn through some funds for a bit.

[BoringBoredBoard40]

Posted: 12/13/23 at 1:28pm

MayAudraBlessYou2 said: "

As for the predictions of a impending closing notice for Ohio, the producing team are very much committed to telling this particular story and widening the scope of what is possible for representation on Broadway. Yes, it's a commercial production, but they have secured money to burn in order to give life to this show and their mission for a bit. It certainly won't run forever unless they have some miracle turnaround. But they are prepared to burn through some funds for a bit."

Ohio is likely closing by end of January at this point unless a major miracle happens, most of the reserve is gone and the show cost nearly $575,000 a week to run

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 12/13/23 at 1:30pm

OhHiii said: "GottaGetAGimmick420 said: "3. There's tourists out there with limited funds thatmay be willingto spend some $$$ on Broadway. But with the state of inflation, it should be no shock that civilians don't see tickets as a priority. But try telling that to the general partners and producers worth millions of dollars in their brownstones."

Ya'll are so funny when you bring up the "oh these producers are worth millions and are demanding such high ticket prices meep meep meep" when tickets (outside of the monster hits that are leveraging dynamic pricing) are quite literally priced to keep shows running by way of covering operating expenses. Shows are expensive to run. We are on BROADWAY World talking about these things. Broadway is a COMMERCIAL market, this isn't a massive nonprofit, it's business. Outside of the aforementioned monster hits, it is not hard to get a ticket under $80 for most shows right now. So looking at the highest earners and their pricing (which supply and demand allow for them to charge higher prices as peopler ARE paying them) and applying that across the shows that are struggling is such a stretch.
 

It just amuses me so much when people complain about ticket prices. Like what you said, Broadway is a business, not some charity that will give away tickets because people complain about prices. They will still charge you. It is very easy to find tickets for a reasonable price if you are a bit flexible with where you sit. Also isn't the saying "demand is high, prices go up"? Supply and demand? There aren't going to be $20 theater tickets. Be realistic should be a new motto for a lot of y'all 


That said, tourists who are in town who would typically see more than 1 show in a trip, may in turn see just 1 due to higher costs in terms of hotels and travel."