"Buenos Aires" Lyric Question

[quizking101]

Posted: 2/11/12 at 9:34am

I'm confused as to significance and/or meaning of the Spanish lyrics in "Buenos Aires" ("Rio de la Plata, Florida, Corrientes, Nueve de Julio")

Roughly translated, it reads "Silver River, Florida, Currents, July 9th"...Unless I'm missing some historical context, it seems to be random Spanish phrases.

Help!

[Smaxie]

Posted: 2/11/12 at 9:43am

Florida, Corrientes, Nueva de Julio are streets in Buenos Aires (the last named for Argentina's Independence Day). And Rio de la Plata is the major river on the border of Uruguay and Argentina.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 2/11/12 at 11:17am

Rio de la Plata -- just to add to Smaxie's description, the respective capitals of Montevideo and Buenos Aires are major ports

Florida -- an elegant shopping street akin to, say, Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills or Fifth Avenue in Manhattan

Corrientes -- the Broadway of Buenos Aires; incidentally, Luna Park, the arena where Eva first met Peron, is on here

Nueve de Julio -- avenue named in honor of Argentina's independence from Spain (July 9, 1916); it intersects with Corrientes

Updated On: 2/11/12 at 11:17 AM

[best12bars]

Posted: 2/11/12 at 11:33am

Thanks, SM2 and Smaxie. Great to hear the details!

Updated On: 2/11/12 at 11:33 AM

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 2/11/12 at 5:15pm

Avenida Nueve de Julio is named for Argentina's Independence Day.

[HBP]

Posted: 2/11/12 at 6:24pm

As most Argentines will tell you, 9 de Julio is the widest street in the world and Río de la Plata the widest river.

[chewy5000]

Posted: 2/11/12 at 7:20pm

I'm always perplexed when she starts singing about eiderdown.

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 2/11/12 at 7:45pm

...not that I knew she was saying eiderdown until I had been listening to the OBC for about a year. (possibly longer)

[Gothampc]

Posted: 2/11/12 at 11:58pm

You should be confused as to why they call Buenos Aires "Big Apple". It was Tim Rice having fun with the lyric, but it makes no sense.

[My Oh My]

Posted: 2/12/12 at 12:34am

Being of the few who pay attention to irrelevant stuff like music in musicals, I was hopelessly perplexed upon hearing the distinctive Mexican Mariachi trumpets begin to blare after Eva belts...

"reeeeeal eiderdown, and silence!!!!"

*Cue Mexican mariachi and cast doing all sorts of "Rrrrrrrr!!" "Ay, ay, ay, ay!!!" "Cuchi, cuchi, cuchiiiii!" in the middle of Big Apple Argentina!!*

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/12/12 at 12:42am

That Big Apple lyric is one of my most annoying examples of Rice being "clever" at his worst. I know many hate the Argentina lyric "Dressed up to the nines, at sixes and sevens with you", but that works well enough for me as it seems to show how well thought out and manipulative Eva's speech is. But that wqhole Big Apple nonsense is just, well nonsense. Nobody besides Rice, has ever called Buenos Aires the Big Apple to the best of my knowledge--add to that that to a first listener the lines "I want to be a, part of B A, Buenos Aires, Big Apple" is downright incomprehensible. (I don't know many people who would pronounce "be *a*" that way either when using it with as in "be a part" but that's just a quibble).

I admit I sorta tune out the lyrics when she starts rattling off the street names, etc--I do love the song, but... (I hope they change the oddly static tango staging they used for the revival in London).

I admit though I kinda love Hershy Kay's use of the mariachi trumpets at the point My Oh My mentions--they sound oddly slightly melancholy to me--but yes they don't make much sense.

(And now thanks to you I have visions of Charo playing Eva... EVen if she isn't Mexican or Argentinian it would be brilliant)

[My Oh My]

Posted: 2/12/12 at 12:46am

I actually like them too. They give it a very rapturous, giddy feel. It made me do a triple take only at first because my mind was in Argentina at first listening to the American premiere album.

And Lloyd Webber had been nothing but accurate in his very traditional Argentine flavored orchestration on the concept album. So, the break from that was like, "Whoa! MEJICO!!!! XD

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/12/12 at 12:51am

That's a good description of them--I dunno why I said melancholy butI guess I do get a sense of that as well.

I knew the concepty album by heart as a kid before hearing any other version (it was the only version my library had), so I admit Kay (I assume it was his contribution) adding the strong latin dance beat to Buenos Aires threw me off for a long time, though I love it equally now. Of course the film largely dropped all of that and went closer to the concept.

[My Oh My]

Posted: 2/12/12 at 12:55am

Oh no, no. I get 'melancholy.' They do have a slight quality of that in the way they harmonize. But we better stop discussing dumb things like orchestration before ClapYo'Hands gets wind of it and bemoans the lack of relevant discussion. =P

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/12/12 at 1:15am

Heven forbid--on this forum??

[ClapYo'Hands]

Posted: 2/12/12 at 3:34am

I'm watching!

[temms]

Posted: 2/12/12 at 3:48am

I love the mariachi trumpets, too. I've always thought it was an acting beat change - she gets a little dreamy on the "Eiderdown" section but then is swept back up into everything a moment later, as though the city's energy can't help but lift her along.

Of course, the whole thing was directly lifted from an old Rice/Webber pop song called "Down Thru' Summer". I've linked it below if you haven't heard it. Interesting to hear how the tune evolved.
"Down Thru' Summer"

[My Oh My]

Posted: 2/12/12 at 4:09am

Ahhhh, ClapYo'Hands, you know I love you. :)

*Big wet kiss*

Temms, I've never heard that before! Interesting.

On the "BA, Buenos Aires, BIG APPLE!" lyric thing, I admit it has a way of embarrassing me for some reason. I sunk in my seat each time I saw the show onstage and the film at the cinema during that scene.

But I also find it oddly endearing in the way it clues-in an audience, albeit a really juvenile fashion, that this city most people watching have never heard of before, is a sort of Argentinian "Big Apple," an equivalent to a better known American "Big Apple." It's as inaccurate as ass and all, but it does well in telling us what we need to know. I'm aware lyrics should strive to do more than that, and that's probably why I slouch down in my seat during that number, rofl.

I remember--not sure where exactly--someone posting somewhere online what they thought Eva was going on about when they first saw the film, "I wanna be a party bee, in Buenos Aires, BIG APPLE!!!!"

As painfully off as that is, I can hardly blame the poor schmo for actually thinking Eva was singing about being a party bee. Whatever that is. XD

Updated On: 2/12/12 at 04:09 AM

[dreaming]

Posted: 2/12/12 at 8:43am

The streets she rattles off at the end of the song also happen to be the most exclusive areas of Buenos Aires (Florida, in particular) (or at least they were at the time) and I always thought that she wanted to see them because of this.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 2/12/12 at 5:19pm

Thanks, guys. The "Big Apple" reference has always bothered me and I just asked about it on another thread.

I understand My Oh My's point that "Big Apple" sort of identifies Buenos Aires as the Argentinian New York City, but it's only one such anachronism. (We can add that while "Buenos Aires" has the initials "B.A.", "la manzana grande" does not in Spanish.) There are enough of such lyrics that I always thought the show was more about the life and early death of a pop star than about anything Argentino.

(FWIW, in the 1970s, when people still studied geography, I think most theatergoers in London and New York knew Buenos Aires was the equivalent.)

I almost got a chance to stage it once with Evita as a sort of punk rock princess, but the producer lost his nerve and feared the audience would be confused.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/13/12 at 3:56am

For the record I was joking with my Charo comment--Wiki claims ALW briefly wanted her for the movie in the 70s... Wow.

[DryMartini]

Posted: 2/13/12 at 10:12am

I used to think she was saying, "You're a tramp, you're a treat, You will shine to the death, you are SADE." Then I realized Sade made absolutely no sense....

[willrogers2008]

Posted: 2/13/12 at 10:37am

This is funny: I've always understood "Stand back, Buenos Aires" as
"Samba! Buenos Aires". I thought it was a big Tim Rice mistake since Samba is not from Argentina but from Brazil. I am sorry Mr. Rice!

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 2/13/12 at 10:51am

I don't think being culturally, musically or historically accurate was the paramount concern Rice/Webber had when they began crafting EVITA. Just as they had done on JC SUPERSTAR they were initially drawn to the Eva Peron myth as a kind of allegory/parable echoing contemporary social/political climates.

As such, I like the "B.A." "Buenos Aires" "Big Apple" interplay because to me it shows a sort of playful, consciously contemporary viewpoint on the situation.

I think over time, a lot of productions of EVITA seem to have moved away from the impressionistic, allegorical storytelling that was at the core of its writing.

Certainly my biggest complaint of the London revival soon to be on Broadway is that it has moved the story into complete realism, which doesn't work in my opinion because as a history lesson and even as a realistic character study, the show is incredibly flawed.

Perhaps because the rock score of JC SUPERSTAR is so completely removed from anything historically accurate, that show has avoided the trap of literalism, which generally plays in its favor.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/13/12 at 2:21pm

My parents lived in Buenos Aires in the early 90s and I had the opportunity to visit. I did the whole "Evita" thing visiting the places mentioned in this particular song as well as seeing her family tomb (flowers were still being placed there daily) and the Casa Rosada. Cheesey touristy stuff I know, but I loved the musical and I was very curious to investigate more on the subject. Incidentally, my parents lived in the posh Recoleta district of Buenos Aires (a penthouse supplied by my father's company) and from their balcony, they would wave to Antonio Banderas and Melanie Griffith as they ate breakfast every morning from their penthouse balcony in the hotel across the street.