CINDERELLA Previews Thread.- Page 14
CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
#325CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/30/13 at 11:17pm
I absolutely want to go back during previews. If I can I might go this weekend.
Ha henrik- a nightmare might be too harsh! It's just very problematic right now. I think some very good points have been raised about meeting people's expectations when they see this show.
No one is buying a ticket to see Cinderella. Things ARE happening everyday, but that is indeed an impossibility. One can only buy a ticket to Rodgers & Hammerstein's Cinderella, and alteration to the title comes with a promise of what this production will deliver. Go to ibdb.com. The show isn't listed under "C" but "R." When you buy tickets the tagline isn't anywhere to be found.
The Jean-Michel plot isn't really cringeworthy or anything. It's just out of place, boring and unnecessary. Belle is also not over-exaggerating how politically charged it is. It's just a retread of the Romney/Obama election. Harriet Harris even has some line to her daughters like, "How could you associate with those people...they're liberals!" Bartlett all but comes out says he doesn't care about the 47%.
Marie: Don't be in such a hurry about that pretty little chippy in Frisco.
Tony: Eh, she's a no chip!
#326CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/30/13 at 11:24pmThe website has Laura singing "In My Own Little Corner" on the site, that voice alone will get me to buy a ticket.
chrisampm2
Broadway Star Joined: 5/26/07
#327CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/30/13 at 11:30pm
I'm confused by the outright rejection of the very idea of injecting a political them into Cinderella. Fairy tales have been subject to interpolations forever. Snow White and the Huntsman is very different from the Disney version. I understand this is R&H's Cinderella, so it's rightly held to a different standard. But maybe there's a reason the R&H organization hasn't mounted the show on Broadway before. Maybe they felt the TV version needed to be altered.
Wicked's done fine by bringing Bush era politics to the beloved Baum/MGM story. Were there similar objections during previews of that?
#328CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/30/13 at 11:49pm
Wicked isn't an adaptation of the Baum/MGM property. If it had been billed as an adaptation of The Wizard of Oz of course we would have taken issue.
I think the TV version should be fleshed for Broadway, but this production isn't fleshed out- it's bloated. R&H can be very political/social: South Pacific, Carousel, King & I. These shows were also written with an adult audience in mind. Cinderella is a family show that many young children will attend. Parents will be spending a lot of money to take their children to the show and they shouldn't be misled with false advertising.
Marie: Don't be in such a hurry about that pretty little chippy in Frisco.
Tony: Eh, she's a no chip!
finebydesign
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/17/07
#329CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 12:07am
"Wicked's done fine by bringing Bush era politics to the beloved Baum/MGM story. Were there similar objections during previews of that? "
How are Wicked's politics Bush era? One of my favorite things about Wicked is that it is very political and the book is like an anthropological study of Oz. The politics in Wicked are as old as Rome and Egyptian ones.
"These shows were also written with an adult audience in mind. Cinderella is a family show that many young children will attend. Parents will be spending a lot of money to take their children to the show and they shouldn't be misled with false advertising."
I haven't seen the show, nor do I care if politics are interjected into it. This production sounds like it's a little too obvious. I feel like Cinderella isn't a horrible story to include elements/commentary on classicism and monarch. That said, I'm sure there is a way to bring it to a fairytale in an inoffensive way. Aladdin is a good example of this, Aladdin interacts with poor kids and shows Jasmine there are poor people. He also frees the Genie from slavery and then frees himself from his lies.
Freud suggests the Cinderella story is symbolic of the defloration of women. I would suggest the story we know today is also about greed and injustice. Look what I'm saying here. These elements are in the story we know and love, but they're not EXPLICIT. Why not create a work that doesn't verge on the didactic? It's entertainment after all.
#330CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 12:08am
You're hitting the nail on the head Whizzer. It isn't really about whether political and social issues should be allowed in a fairy tale retelling. The point is that you hear Rodgers and Hammerstein and you expect something at least close to what you grew up with. If it was a brand new show with brand new music, it wouldn't be much of an issue.
I do think that in its current state, it can agitate quite a number of people. The specific politics should be taken out. There's nothing wrong with a message of kindness and helping the poor. The way it is approached will likely only cause boredom or controversy.
Again, there's a lot of potential here. The cast is fantastic. The production team just needs to take a hard look at the book and figure out what needs to be cut to best reach the widest audience.
#331CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 12:26am
finebydesign- The politcs/social messages in Aladdin are a great example of how to weave in a message without hitting you over the head with a mallet. I think if Cinderella herself could be the one who showed the prince the poor people in the kingdom it would be fine. It's the creation of Jean-Michel that is too much to handle.
After all this makes Jean-Michel the caring, sensitive and aware character in the piece, not Cinderella. He's the hero. Not her. In fact Jean-Michel seems like the male lead instead of the prince. Why wasn't it Cinderella who saw the way Bartlett was mistreating the people and brought it to the prince?
Marie: Don't be in such a hurry about that pretty little chippy in Frisco.
Tony: Eh, she's a no chip!
finebydesign
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/17/07
#332CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 12:27am
So Belle, you think the music (and maybe the trunk songs) are strong enough to make a show?
This has been part of my argument of "does this really need to be on Broadway" this was a television project. To me blowing it up to something larger really changes it's initial goal. Unless the bookwriter really has an incredible angle (let's say something like Wicked's) why would anyone care to see this TV project? The cast aside.
finebydesign
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/17/07
#333CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 12:32am@whizzer, agreed from what I've read (not seen) I would take the Jean-Michel material and give it to the prince and Cinderella. Why can't the prince be the one who realizes the monarch is oppressive? Why isn't a marriage to a commoner odd? I think Cinderella can always be doing good, her role is always the Cinderella story, she is the underdog, the rags to riches. I agree fix the love-at-first-site, helpless bit. It does seem like the prince is the character in need of a real arc here. How fascinating would it be for a prince to be the one who dethrones his legacy? It's a god subplot. Heck that may have even helped the Little Mermaid on Bway. Instead we got a singing contest.
#334CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 12:32amMost fairy tales are sexist. All the women get saved by men and they all get makeovers to be prettier. It's pretty grotesque. I'd try to keep my kids away from fairy tales. And ever since someone mentioned Annie in the bathtub with Daddy Warbucks that show grosses me out too.
"The sexual energy between the mother and son really concerns me!"-random woman behind me at Next to Normal
"I want to meet him after and bang him!"-random woman who exposed her breasts at Rock of Ages, referring to James Carpinello
#335CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 12:44amI like your ideas finebydesign. :)
Marie: Don't be in such a hurry about that pretty little chippy in Frisco.
Tony: Eh, she's a no chip!
#336CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 1:31am
Hmmm...not quite even sure where to begin with this one.
I suppose I'll start with the design. William Ivey Long once again proves that he can do no wrong. The costumes are whimsical, colorful and quite stunning. Dress transformations happened a few times throughout the show, and although the concept is quite simple, seeing the transformations executed on stage took my breath away each time.
I am generally a fan of Anna Louizos, but her set designs are severely misguided for this production. Cinderellas cottage and the town square might as well have been plucked from Beauty and the Beast. The missed opportunities in regards to the castle set actually make my heart ache. Two arch ways and some two dimensional chandeliers don't make for a Broadway caliber castle in my book. Cinderella's grand entrance at the ball was not made at the top of a sweeping staircase, she simply entered stage right. The clock that appeared at the end of the first act to strike midnight looked an awful lot like a big projection to me. The sliding trees that were present throughout the show looked like a high school students paper mache project. With all this said, assume that the small carriage and its transformation also falls way short.
With the exception of the two leads; the cast was very shticky and frankly not very funny. Laura Osnes proves herself as a true triple threat here. HUGE kudos to her for somehow finding a charming and truthful portrayal with the dialogue written for this new book. Santino Fontana, although a bit fey, had some nice moments and sings beautifully.
The choreography was very lovely.
Ugh, the book. I don't know where to start or how to express all my thoughts in a coherent paragraph, so I'll be vague. Everything that is so beloved about the original is changed. The show is boring. The jokes arent funny. I came to see Cinderella, not a political lesson on taxes and poor starving people. You can hardly call this show 'Cinderella' anymore.
What a shame this was. I had ALOT more faith. The gorgeous score even seems boring and underwhelming within the confines of this disappointing production. How dare they screw up the beloved show this badly??
I'll take the wind and soar.
#337CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 1:51amWhat about Victoria Clark? Would you call her performance "schtiky?" I only ask because just about everyone has been raving about her.
Scratch and claw for every day you're worth!
Make them drag you screaming from life, keep dreaming
You'll live forever here on earth.
#338CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 1:53amOut of curiosity, what exactly IS the Jean-Michel Plotline? What does he do other than "be a political rebel" and "fall in love with Stepsister #1?" Specifically, what does he do in the show?
#339CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 9:55amNot having seen the show yet, I'm confused about what seems to be a common theme here, which is that the subplot seems to be reflective in some way of the 2012 presidential election. What confuses me is how that would have played out had Romney won the election and not Obama. Obviously, the book was completed long before the election results were known (it was pretty much a toss up election even going into Election Day), but I assume the book was complete long before the GOP candidate was even known. So had Romney won, would the political subplot have appeared even worse to those of you who have criticized it? It's hard to understand how smart producers, such as Robyn Goodman, would have agreed to produce a show that starts out by turning off close to 50% of the population. That doesn't make any sense to me.
CZJ at opening night party for A Little Night Music, Dec 13, 2009.
#340CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 10:54am
ChairinMain, What does Jean-Michel do? Other than pontificate?
We first meet Jean-Michel in the scene before "My Own Little Corner." He trash talks the prince a little bit, but Cinderella defends the royal heir, although she barely knows him herself. Jean-Michel gives Cinderella a book that describes how other cultures in all different parts of the world live. This is what causes her to sing about all the places in "My Own Little Corner."
Jean-Michel is all over the map in this scene. One moment he's all "Do You Hear the People Sing?" and the next he's doing schtick, like someone previously mentioned. For example, his exit line went something like this: Off I go. By my lonesome. All alone. I'm a Loner...You're coming with me, right Marie?
Was this stuff written for Nathan Lane?
Also of note is Jean-Michel's costume. He is not wearing the rags of the other Hooverville-ites, and he certainly is well-educated, well-spoken, etc. We get no information about who Jean-Michel is, why he is so invested in his cause or anything like that.
Jean-Michel appears in the town square where he sings Now Is The Time. The townspeople are inspired and are ready to back the revolution. Unfortunately for Jean-Michel, Lord Pinkleton shows up to sing "The Prince is Giving a Ball," which is eventually sung in counterpoint to "Now Is The Time." The people are torn between the ball and the cause. They opt for the ball and Jean-Michel is dejected by this bump in the road.
Another time we see Jean-Michel is while Cinderella is helping the Step-Sisters get ready for the ball. He brings both his beloved and the Step-Mother a bouquet of wildflowers. The Step-Mother throws him out and dismisses him as an inappropriate match for her daughter. (You see Bartlett and Harris are in cahoots. Bartlett previously paid a visit to the cottage to tell Harris the prince would be in a white mask and to make sure her daughter would be in a pink one. That way they could rig who was chosen at the ball.)
Jean-Michel makes a date to take Gabrielle to a soup kitchen. She does love to ladle after all! For some reason they do a Fred and Adele dance routine (that goes on forever) before leaving for Hooverville.
Cinderella and the prince (in disguise) also show up to shantytown. We see they couldn't serve the soup because the people were too poor to even make the soup. Jean-Michel has had enough. It's time to march on the palace; a coup d'etat is the only way to bring equality to the land. Luckily Cinderella still has her book about all the different cultures of the world. She turns to the page on Greece and teaches the people about democracy and free elections.
What doesn't make sense is the first person the rebels would vote out of power would be the prince. Bartlett wouldn't be enough to satisfy the massive. Bartlett was the evil one, but he did it all under the nose of the prince. That doesn't seem to matter though. Jean-Michel is all talk and caves into this idea about free elections rather than storming the Bastille.
POSSIBLE SPOILERS
Election day comes around and Jean-Michel and Bartlett are tied. (If there really are so many peasant I don't know how this could be a reality, but nevermind.) Only one person hasn't cast her vote, and that's the Step-Mother. Will she have a change of heart? She does and votes for Jean-Michel. He is elected Prime Minister of the land and everyone lived happily ever after.
Marie: Don't be in such a hurry about that pretty little chippy in Frisco.
Tony: Eh, she's a no chip!
finebydesign
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/17/07
#342CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 11:16am
Yea it seems like the Prince could just come to the realization that that the monarch isn't working on his own. Maybe seeing Cinderella chatting with the Hooverilians would do it. Had Jasmine given up the throne, that would have made a much deeper story.
It seems really far-fetched some oppressed people would turn-around a revolution so fast. Does the Jafar character have a sidekick? The election bit is just out-there. But so are pumpkin carriages.
As far as the politics here, tax cuts for the rich is really old news. It's not like the last election cycle invented it.
#343CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 11:30am
Ha PJ, yes. I suppose by royal decree everyone is allowed to vote.
It's so silly that the peasants are all ready to go with the pitchforks and torches to overthrow the prince and all Cinderella has to do to pacify them is bring up free elections and they have NO suspicions that this won't be a just process, etc.
finebydesign, Bartlett doesn't have a sidekick. The election is out-there, but that's not the worst part. The revolution/election simply overtakes the story for the last 15-20. It's not about the slipper hunt. There's no Step-Sisters cutting off their toes and heels and to fit in the shoe. The excitement should be "will the prince find his missing mystery lady?" Instead the dramatic climax is "will Jean-Michel be elected Prime Minister?"
Marie: Don't be in such a hurry about that pretty little chippy in Frisco.
Tony: Eh, she's a no chip!
#344CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 11:42am
That's exactly what I felt was so wrong with this show. By that point, I couldn't care less what happened. I was just getting antsy to get out of the theater. There's no emotional tie to the Jean Michel storyline. Cinderella is the only character you really want to root for (maybe because Laura is just so charming). Then they have to muddle the romance by making their relationship more about Cinderella trying to convince him to change the kingdom. It caused the songs about falling hopelessly in love to just feel out of place.
The end result really came across as writers trying desperately to get their political ideas into the plot, even if it didn't really mesh with the story.
And regarding audience reactions, I really only heard one or two big laughs. So I don't think I'm the only one who felt a bit disconnected.
finebydesign
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/17/07
#346CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 12:01pm
I guess I like the idea that the prince is kinda forced into marrying a stepsister because they are from a higherclass. Cinderella being a commoner seems like enough for the prince to change his ways.
I agree with "The excitement should be "will the prince find his missing mystery lady?" but it is Cinderella's arc so its more about will Cinderella be loved found, identified and loved despite her rags. I LOVE the suspense (SPOILER ALERT) in the Disney version when the slipper is broken. All is lost at the point. Then inexplicably she has the other one (weird magic logic).
Is the part where Cinderella's stepsister destroy her mom's old dress? I think I saw that in a regional production of this once.
SPOILER ALERT.
#347CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 12:08pmNo, there is no mention of Cinderella's mother. The Step-Mother does take Cinderella's father's old coat and rips it up. She throws the shreds at Cinderella and tells to mop up the porch with these rags. This is where the perfect cue for Cinderella to burst into, "Rags! You gave me Rags!" would be. I'm sure Laura would do Judy Kuhn proud.
Marie: Don't be in such a hurry about that pretty little chippy in Frisco.
Tony: Eh, she's a no chip!
#348CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 12:27pm
SPOILERS
No, but there is a similar scene. Gabrielle decides to play sick to get out of going to the banquet so she can go to the soup kitchen with Jean Michel instead. She then gives Cinderella the dress she was supposed to wear so that Cinderella could go to the banquet in her place. (Gabrielle knows that Cinderella was the mystery girl at the ball.) When Cinderella changes into that dress, her step mother comes in, discovers Jean Michel and Gabrielle together, and is enraged. She then rips the dress Cinderella is wearing to shreds. Eventually, what is left of that dress will magically transform to the Belle-style dress she ends up wearing to the banquet.
#349CINDERELLA Previews Thread.
Posted: 1/31/13 at 12:39pmAll this political stuff with Jean-Michel sounds sort of intriguing to me. I can honestly see why they did something like that. The book was always so thin and dated, there was little to make the R&H Cinderella worth putting on Broadway other than to hear the score. The book was so traditional, something had to be done to pique the interest of anyone in the audience over the age of 7. It sounds like they may have overreached, but to me, anything mildly contemporary or witty sounds like a vast improvement. The original was fine for television in 1957 and 1965, but after that, it really didn't hold up well for anything other than children.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
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