Congestion pricing will destroy broadway - Page 3

[Hestia2]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 1:41pm

NJGUY said: "Unoriginal juke box musicals, unnecessary revivals and the attempted wokeness of straight plays will kill Broadway a lot sooner than $15 added to the entertainment bill."

 

You had me at unoriginal.

 

[MezzA101]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 1:58pm

Scammers Could Cheat New York’s New Congestion Pricing Tolls

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/05/nyregion/nyc-congestion-pricing-ghost-cars-scams.html?unlocked_article_code=1.m04.5kFD._nloAwcgJ0cR

[MezzA101]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 2:03pm

Dreamboy3 said: "quizking101 said: "I think I would be more amenable to the congestion price scheme if it was mutually beneficial between NY and NJ. If the goal is to push people toward mass transit, I feel like it should benefit NJ Transit as well as the MTA."

New Jersey is free to adopt a plan analogous to the one in New York…

"

NJ won't even protect their own Uber and Lyft drivers. Cars with NJ plates coming in to NYC can't pick up a fare going back to NJ because NYC's T&LC won't allow it. That's their right. But NY cars  constantly go into NJ and EWR trying to pick up fares and NJ does nothing about it.

[Patti LuPone FANatic]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 2:57pm

As a tourist, how would my taxi fare be affected?  I used to take Supershuttle, but would have to wait too long to get to my hotel.  I prefer taking a taxi from La Guardia to a hotel in Midtown.  Considering how much I have to shell out for my airfare, hotel and theatre tickets, I can deal with a $15 charge.  BTW, I hope to visit NYC sometime in mid March, so I can see "Smash".

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 3:58pm

Patti LuPone FANatic said: "As a tourist, how would my taxi fare be affected? I used to take Supershuttle, but would have to wait too long to get to my hotel. I prefer taking a taxi from La Guardia to a hotel in Midtown. Considering how much I have to shell out for my airfare, hotel and theatre tickets, I can deal with a $15 charge. BTW, I hope to visit NYC sometime in mid March, so I can see "Smash"."

You will pay a mere 75 cents more in a Taxi, per the NYT:

Riding in a taxi, green cab or black car will now cost passengers an extra 75 cents in the congestion zone, which runs from 60th Street south to the Battery. The surcharge for an Uber or Lyft will be $1.50 per trip. Cars on Franklin D. Roosevelt Drive and on the West Side Highway, which run along the edges of Manhattan, will not face charges as long as drivers do not enter the tolling zone.

[Play Esq.]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 4:45pm

Did congestion pricing destroy Broadway yet?

[BETTY22]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 5:08pm

I'm sure folks having $200 -$300 per ticket will be able to afford an extra few dollars. 

I take the subway or walk. 

 

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 5:30pm

the goal is to compel more people to take mass transit, but they did it backwards--they plan to use the funds raised from these tolls to fund improvements to mass transit, and thats all well and good, but as it stands, there are no such improvements. 

i am all for this in theory, but UNlike the other cities where this has been rolled out, there are *a million* Manhattanites who are now stuck with this tax, not to mention countless cops, firefighters, hotel staff and others who are able to afford to live in the NYC area by commuting in from the suburbs. the lack of any exceptions to this tax for certain income brackets, or certain public servants, is just wild- and AGAIN, turns a worthy progressive goal into a policy that alienates. 

 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 5:40pm

the lack of any exceptions to this tax for certain income brackets, or certain public servants, is just wild

It's also not true and one minute of research would have helped ya out 😘

https://new.mta.info/tolls/congestion-relief-zone/discounts-exemptions

 

Updated On: 1/5/25 at 05:40 PM

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 6:03pm

The exceptions speak for themselves, and prove my point, so thanks for the link: Low income residents of Manhattan get discounts AFTER paying at least $90/month; cops/firefighters do NOT get discounts for their personal vehicles; the exemptions for disabled individuals requires an arduous application process, and isnt really an exemption- its likely necessary to comply with Federal law; there is no discount at all for middle class people living in Manhattan--you could literally be priced out of *coming home at night*

again, i am all for congestion pricing. it worked some magic in London and Singapore, among other places. But this isnt being done intelligently- and it will bite the governor in the end (who has now ticked off pretty much everyone with this). 

 

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 6:46pm

PipingHotPiccolo said: "The exceptions speak for themselves, and prove my point, so thanks for the link:Low income residents of Manhattan get discounts AFTER paying at least $90/month; cops/firefighters do NOT get discounts for their personal vehicles; the exemptions for disabled individuals requires an arduous application process, and isnt really an exemption- its likely necessary to comply with Federal law; there is no discount at all for middle class people living in Manhattan--you could literally be priced out of *coming home at night*"

Why would personal vehicles of Cops/Firefighters get exemptions? And how many low income people are driving in NYC let alone disabled people? Let's be entirely honest, owning and driving a car on a regular basis in this city for personal use is an upper class luxury. 

Updated On: 1/5/25 at 06:46 PM

[JSquared2]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 7:41pm

PipingHotPiccolo said: "The exceptions speak for themselves, and prove my point, so thanks for the link:Low income residents of Manhattan get discounts AFTER paying at least $90/month; cops/firefighters do NOT get discounts for their personal vehicles; the exemptions for disabled individuals requires an arduous application process, and isnt really an exemption- its likely necessary to comply with Federal law; there is no discount at all for middle class people living in Manhattan--you could literally be priced out of *coming home at night*
 

Whaaa???  Are you actually saying that there are these middle class people who live and work in Manhattan who own cars and are driving from home to work and back every day??  Do you know of even one person who fits that description?  

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 7:44pm

Why would personal vehicles of Cops/Firefighters get exemptions?

Oh, they know how dumb that sounds, they just needed something to make up to avoid being incorrect.

the lack of any exceptions to this tax for certain income brackets, or certain public servants, is just wild-

30 minutes later.... 

The exceptions speak for themselves

🤣🤣🤣

It's always amusing and adorable when an adult can't admit being wrong 😄

Updated On: 1/5/25 at 07:44 PM

[RumTumJM]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 8:12pm

My fear is that Broadway will be hurt (and I'm choosing my wording carefully) by the way that costs will likely go up, due to the congestion pricing, and Broadway's likely desire to "pass the burden on to the customers", as I think so many businesses will do.

My understanding is that trucks and business vehicles will have a higher toll than passenger cars, around $25 bucks. So, any truck bringing merchandise, sets, whatever, will have to pay that price. And, if my understanding of business is correct (and I THINK it is), the merchandise company or the trucking company that transports the sets will pass the extra cost on to the Broadway production they are dealing with, so they don't lose money, themselves. Then, when the Broadway production faces these highers costs, time & time again, it might be inclined to raise ticket prices, even more, to protect IT'S profits. 

In the end, the big question is, "With the current high prices, how many people are going to shows, but spending the most that they're willing to spend on those trips?" And, if this is the case for many ticket buyers, will they reach their financial breaking point & stop going to shows, if the costs go up even more, due to the congestion pricing. 

Updated On: 1/5/25 at 08:12 PM

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 10:41pm

to clarify, i dont think congestion pricing will harm, let alone destroy, broadway. i made the mistake, again, of thinking adults capable of nuance were present, but alas, we have Sutton, so proudly incapable of confronting factual points with anything other than snark (and bad snark at that- there *are not* exemptions for the people i referenced, but facts are frustrating, i know).


JSquared, yes, I do, and I was born/raised in Manhattan in such circumstance (we didnt have a car, but we had neighbors who did--to get to their jobs often outside manhattan). If its not a common occurrence, then it would be easy to exempt these people, no?

And its always eye opening to see the bubbles we live in (myself included, i suppose). But do you think all the firefighters and school teachers and police (i could go on and on) that work in manhattan also live in manhattan? You dont know that MANY of them drive in from Staten or Long Island? Often with lots of heavy gear, in the case of firefighters? Its just shocking to me that this would be news to anyone, but here we are.

and all this in response to me AGREEING that congestion pricing is a good thing, but pointing out the way it wasnt tailored all that well for some ppl. But, again, nuance, impossible for some brains. And yall wonder why we keep losing elections. 

 

Updated On: 1/5/25 at 10:41 PM

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 11:13pm

PipingHotPiccolo said: "And its always eye opening to see the bubbles we live in (myself included, i suppose). But do you think all the firefighters and school teachers and police (i could go on and on) that work in manhattan also live in manhattan? You dont know that MANY of them drive in from Staten or Long Island? Often with lots of heavy gear, in the case of firefighters? Its just shocking to me that this would be news to anyone, but here we are."

I'm not sure if you know this or not, but there is a ROBUST Public Transportation system in this city that most of those people use. I work with people from all over the boroughs (and even from Long Island) in Manhattan and yes they all use trains including the doctors who financially have no reason to. If you are DRIVING in from Long Island to work you are both financially able to do so and do it as a convenience to yourself to not have to use public transit. There are people from Long Island, Jersey, Staten Island who all work in Manhattan and are on Trains before they ever reach the Island. Fire Fighters are not driving into their Fire House from home with their equipment, that is exactly why they have a FIRE HOUSE. Have you ever actually been outside? You seem very confused on how this city (and really any profession) operates.

Updated On: 1/5/25 at 11:13 PM

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 11:30pm

i take the subway every day. i dont have a car in the city and i have lived here my whole life. lecturing me about a robust public transport system is rich--especially because the VERY PURPOSE of the congestion pricing is to improve our woefully underfunded, inadequate and inconvenient transportation system, that pales in comparison to other cities'. there are whole swaths of suburbs that are not easily accessible by public transport, and you rely on the people who live in those places to run this city, but again, an inconvenient truth you'd prefer to ignore. no worries.

you are simply wrong about how many people drive into manhattan and wildly out of touch if you think the current public transport from Staten Island, central NJ, and parts of Long Island, is easy and workable for everyone. The firefighters are an excellent example (they dont live in manhattan, commute here every day, and often lug their stuff) and in fact, the FDNY unions are loudly complaining about this very fact, but you know better, i'm sure, and in any event you seem unwilling to even acknowledge that maybe there are some downsides to a policy that you otherwise support (as i do).

this is a very childish, and ultimately unproductive, way of seeing the world (only rich people commute into the city in their cars--- as if the daily packed bridges and tunnels are full of wealthy people in fancy cars only, a comically and demonstrably false assumption) but i guess you're entitled to believe whatever you want. i just wish you were capable of even the tiniest amount of empathy for the people that will be negatively impacted by this tax (even if you support it anyway, as i do) but that seems too much to ask in a black/white world of silly self-righteousness---where either congestion pricing has NO DOWNSIDES WHATSOEVER TO ANYONE or its going to somehow DESTROY BROADWAY.  this board, and society in general, in a nutshell.

 

Updated On: 1/5/25 at 11:30 PM

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 1/5/25 at 11:49pm

PipingHotPiccolo said: "i take the subway every day. i dont have a car in the city and i have lived here my whole life. lecturing me about a robust public transport system is rich--especially because the VERY PURPOSE of the congestion pricing is to improve our woefully underfunded, inadequate and inconvenient transportation system, that pales in comparison to other cities'. there are whole swaths of suburbs that are not easily accessible by public transport, and you rely on the people who live in those places to run this city, but again, an inconvenient truth you'd prefer to ignore. no worries.
 

The MTA is not underfunded, it's poorly managed. The paltry amount of revenue generated from this pricing isn't going to put a dent in that. That being said, it is the ONLY public transit in this country that is actually usable in daily life. You made a note of how many areas of the boroughs that aren't accessible to public transit, but what does that have to do with congestion pricing? And you think those people just have cars in place of that? Like... The LIRR reaches the very tip of Long Island and I dont give a **** about the expenses to the overpaid NYPD living out on Staten Island, they can afford it. Again, anybody who was driving into Manhattan for work is doing so for their convenience and have the financial ability to do so. That is a luxury. You are describing a situation that is not out of necessity and does not exist for any one but the upper class of this city. If they are incuring more cost than their already sky high car insurance, so what? 

Like if it gets people out of their car and onto the Subway then that... kinda is the point right? 

I literally work with a nurse who takes a train from ****ing Poughkeepsie every day. It is possible. The reason anybody takes a car into this city is not ever EVER out of necessity. 

Updated On: 1/6/25 at 11:49 PM

[BoringBoredBoard40]

Posted: 1/6/25 at 2:44am

Yes a $9 toll is going to destroy a broadway where people pay $500 for seats (eye roll)

[massofmen]

Posted: 1/6/25 at 8:36am

i remember when congestion pricing killed the west end /s

[JasonC3]

Posted: 1/6/25 at 9:01am

TheatreFan4 said: "That being said, it is the ONLY public transit in this country that is actually usable in daily life."

I think those in Chicago and DC would dispute this point despite the complaints about the CTA and the WMATA.

 

Updated On: 1/6/25 at 09:01 AM

[Kad]

Posted: 1/6/25 at 10:59am

PipingHotPiccolo said: "the goal is to compel more people to take mass transit, but they did it backwards--they plan to use the funds raised from these tolls to fund improvements to mass transit, and thats all well and good, but as it stands, there are no such improvements."

...huh? It's been made explicitly clear that money is needed to implement such improvements. Things can now progress with the assumption that they will be eventually paid for by this revenue.

[JSquared2]

Posted: 1/6/25 at 2:01pm

TheatreFan4 said: "PipingHotPiccolo said: "And its always eye opening to see the bubbles we live in (myself included, i suppose). But do you think all the firefighters and school teachers and police (i could go on and on) that work in manhattan also live in manhattan? You dont know that MANY of them drive in from Staten or Long Island? Often with lots of heavy gear, in the case of firefighters? Its just shocking to me that this would be news to anyone, but here we are."

I'm not sure if you know this or not, but there is a ROBUST Public Transportation system in this city that most of those people use. I work with people from all over the boroughs (and even from Long Island) in Manhattan and yes they all use trains including the doctors who financially have no reason to. If you are DRIVING in from Long Island to work you are both financially able to do so and do it as a convenience to yourself to not have to use public transit. There are people from Long Island, Jersey, Staten Island who all work in Manhattan and are on Trains before they ever reach the Island. Fire Fighters are not driving into their Fire House from home with their equipment, that is exactly why they have a FIRE HOUSE. Have you ever actually been outside? You seem very confused on how this city (and really any profession) operates."

 

Wait a minute -- are you saying that the NYFD does NOT have to carry their uniforms, hoses, gear and ladders with them back and forth from home??    Having FIRE HOUSES to keep them in makes SO much more sense!!

I learn something new on this board every day!  

[Penna2]

Posted: 1/6/25 at 5:05pm

SeanD2 said: "No it won't. And people need to learn to take public transportation."

Small problem with that is the violence taking place on the subways. More people are driving because of the crime.

[gibsons2]

Posted: 1/6/25 at 5:22pm

Penna2 said: "SeanD2 said: "No it won't. And people need to learn to take public transportation."

Small problem with that is the violence taking place on the subways. More people are driving because of the crime."

 

You are talking about people who live outside of the city and rarely take subway anyway. Owning a car in the city is extremely cost prohibitive even if you are in a relatively high tax bracket. Very few new yorkers own a car or even have a driver's license. The rest of us keep taking subway which is as packed during rush hours as it was pre-pandemic. I commute 4 days a week in Manhattan and plan to do so as long as I work and live in the city. Again, people who drive are not from the city. Even prior to this streak of violence on the subway, these people preferred driving to taking public transport. The less cars are on the streets, the better. All they do is killing pedestrians, cyclists and contribute to the air and noise pollution.