Congestion pricing will destroy broadway — Page 6

Sutton Ross said: "• The average annual household income of the Broadway theatregoer was$271,277

• Respondents reported having paid an average of $161.20 per ticket.


In many ways, there are two different Broadway audiences. Many of the posters on these threads are folks who live in the City or nearby, work in the City, or nearby, or are generally used to commuting. You are the people who are most impacted by anything that impacts day to day costs -- whether it's the tolls, or the subway fares, or (now) congestion pricing.

Then there are people like me -- people who dont live in NYC and who fly in, or drive long distances for a few days or a week at a time. (My wife and I were born in NYC but made our careers in Ohio.). So, yes -- I'm one of those people who are paying more than the quoted amount -- significantly more. When people like me come in, it's a major investment -- parking at the airport, flying, cabs, sleeping quarters, restaurants -- so when the cost of the cab went up $20+ a few years ago, we went 'wow' and then paid it. When the costs of dinner at our favorite restaurants went up because of the pandemic, and the economy, and just because -- we shared a dessert, but otherwise just rolled with it. We'll roll with the 75 cents the cab added when took a cab on Sunday rather than walk a mile in the cold.

If I understand the economy of Broadway (and for that, I thank all of you who keep teaching me) -- Broadway relies on both of these groups. And during the holiday times when the prices go sky high and the theaters are still packed, maybe it would be fair to say you are counting on us out-of-towners to keep things going. (After all, sane people probably wouldnt have paid $404 a ticket to see Gypsy last Saturday night -- but I did. And there's no other way to explain a $5 million week at Gypsy.)

At the bottom line -- I am willing to dig a little deeper and invest a little more to try to keep theater happening. And I suspect (and deeply hope) that there are enough folks like me (and folks like you) to sustain an industry that more than ever seems like an economic impossibility.

"When people like me come in, it's a major investment -- parking at the airport, flying, cabs, sleeping quarters, restaurants -- so when the cost of the cab went up $20+ a few years ago, we went 'wow' and then paid it. When the costs of dinner at our favorite restaurants went up because of the pandemic, and the economy, and just because -- we shared a dessert, but otherwise just rolled with it. We'll roll with the 75 cents the cab added when took a cab on Sunday rather than walk a mile in the cold."

The 2025 MTA budget is 19.9 billion dollars and assumes a 4% fare and toll increase (August 2025). Matter of fact, the NYC budget is 112.4 billion which is more than most states in this country -lol. So, you are being told almost 20 billion dollars a year is not enough they need "congestion" fee to make capital improvements. The cynic in me believes MTA and others in NYC will never have enough money to spend and will find a way to take more money out of your pocket with more fees. Maybe "congestion" fee will reduce cars in NYC which is about the only good thing I can think of for it.

Here is some accurate information on the where/what/how of it all.

https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nyc-congestion-pricing-maps/

How about all the restaurants and few remaining mom and pop shops faced with fronting additional costs for supply deliveries? I think of the withering Garment District stores, the few remaining costume shops in the area and stores like Manhattan Wardrobe Supply that are the lifeline to so many wardrobe departments. Rent is already astronomical but now they have to cover congestion pricing to get their supplies?! Same thing for restaurants around the Theatre District raising prices (again) to cover these costs. It's not so much about Broadway audiences but the midtown business district as a whole. Meanwhile, when was the last time the MTA passed an audit?

I would say count on it. What business has ever rejected an excuse for raising its prices?


Kad said: "IfIOnlyHadAHeart said: "How about all the restaurants and few remaining mom and pop shops faced with fronting additional costs for supply deliveries? I think of the withering Garment District stores, the few remaining costume shops in the area and stores like Manhattan Wardrobe Supply that are the lifeline to so many wardrobe departments. Rent is already astronomical but now they have to cover congestion pricing to get their supplies?! Same thing forrestaurants around the Theatre District raising prices (again)to cover these costs. It's not so much aboutBroadway audiences but the midtown business district as a whole. Meanwhile, when was the last time the MTA passed an audit?"

Delivery trucks currently pay $14.60 during peak and $3.60 overnight. And most delivery trucks are making many stops in Manhattan, not one, and they are likely only being charged this toll once a day since they will remain in Manhattan making their deliveries. So if they pushed the cost onto their customers and divvied it up amongst them, it kind of seems like an incredibly negligible amount to add to shipping costs. Even if they pushed the entirety of the toll onto every business they deliver to, it is still a low enough amount that any price increase passed along to a business's customers to offset it should be negligible.

Now, will some businesses raise prices noticeably and claim it's because of congestion pricing? Probably!"

If you shell out for theatre tickets, maybe dinner, tunnel tolls, parking then congestion charge, I wouldn’t think an extra $10 bucks would hurt.

Yet if you are someone that comes in by subway and gets cheap tickets off the booth, then yes $10 bucks would make a big difference.

There is a big difference between the two.

Updated On: 1/16/25 at 03:07 PM

JSquared2 said: "Timon3 said: "If you shell out for theatre tickets, maybe dinner, tunnel tolls, parking then congestion charge, I wouldn’t think an extra $10 bucks would hurt.

Yes if you were someone that came in by subway and got cheap tickets off the booth, then yes $10 bucks would make a big difference.

There is a big difference between the two."



Umm...if you came in by subway, you wouldn't be paying thecongestion charge --- so you'd get to keep your $10. Problem solved.

"

I know that about subway, but really that isn’t the point I’m making and you know it.

Timon3 said: "JSquared2 said: "Timon3 said: "If you shell out for theatre tickets, maybe dinner, tunnel tolls, parking then congestion charge, I wouldn’t think an extra $10 bucks would hurt.

Yes if you were someone that came in by subway and got cheap tickets off the booth, then yes $10 bucks would make a big difference.

There is a big difference between the two."



Umm...if you came in by subway, you wouldn't be paying thecongestion charge --- so you'd get to keep your $10. Problem solved.

"

I know that about subway, but really that isn’t the point I’m making and you know it."



No I honestly don't know what your point was. I'd ask you to enlighten us -- but at this point I'm bored and no longer care.

NYC industries see economic boon as congestion pricing continues; subway ridership increases as traffic flow is mixed bag in March



https://www.amny.com/news/nyc-economic-successes-congestion-pricing/

While I do think congestion pricing will become more broadly accepted as its benefits become more obvious, as it has in other cities in the world, I'm not entirely sure I can see the link between it and the increase in Broadway grosses specifically. We've seen higher ticket prices for Broadway productions both old and new, plus continued return of audiences post-pandemic, factors entirely separate. The article doesn't really cite clear evidence that the two are linked- correlation does not equal causation. At the very least, the doomsayers who started this thread at least are proven wrong in that it doesn't hurt Broadway grosses.

Updated On: 3/24/25 at 04:06 PM

chrishuyen said: "I'm guessing the "win" here is that despite congestion pricing being in effect, it doesn't seem to have been detrimental to Broadway in the way many people had originally feared. Of course, the numbers don't give a full picture and it's possible that if we didn't have so many celebrity-driven "event" shows that the overall gross would be lower than last year, due in part to congestion pricing, but it's impossible to say for sure. The point is that the grosses went up despite congestion pricing being seen as a hindrance."

I think the suggested Broadway correlation is little more than statistical clickbait but I also think there is another bit of statistical silliness in the notion that the toll has any significance in a decision to drive into the city and see a Broadway show. Forget about the $900 price point. Let's assume you got 2 tickets at $100 each, parked on the street, and ate before you came into the city. That $9 ($4.50 each) is considerably less than the fees you paid for those tickets. Anyone who suggests it's a deal breaker has some other agenda.

Not buying it.