Congestion pricing will destroy broadway - Page 6

[JasonC3]

Posted: 1/11/25 at 8:15pm

Ah yes. You can always count on Sutton Ross to ignore what their own post said and for dismissive responses when called out.  Notice how Hogan had no problem making an assertion with the more specific context that is far less debatable.

Updated On: 1/11/25 at 08:15 PM

[Mike66]

Posted: 1/11/25 at 8:19pm

Sutton Ross said: "• The average annual household income of the Broadway theatregoer was$271,277

• Respondents reported having paid an average of $161.20 per ticket.
 

In many ways, there are two different Broadway audiences.  Many of the posters on these threads are folks who live in the City or nearby, work in the City, or nearby, or are generally used to commuting.  You are the people who are most impacted by anything that impacts day to day costs -- whether it's the tolls, or the subway fares, or (now) congestion pricing.

Then there are people like me -- people who dont live in NYC and who fly in, or drive long distances for a few days or a week at a time.  (My wife and I were born in NYC but made our careers in Ohio.). So, yes -- I'm one of those people who are paying more than the quoted amount -- significantly more.  When people like me come in, it's a major investment -- parking at the airport, flying, cabs, sleeping quarters, restaurants -- so when the cost of the cab went up $20+ a few years ago, we went 'wow' and then paid it.  When the costs of dinner at our favorite restaurants went up because of the pandemic, and the economy, and just because -- we shared a dessert, but otherwise just rolled with it.  We'll roll with the 75 cents the cab added when took a cab on Sunday rather than walk a mile in the cold.  

If I understand the economy of Broadway (and for that, I thank all of you who keep teaching me) -- Broadway relies on both of these groups.  And during the holiday times when the prices go sky high and the theaters are still packed, maybe it would be fair to say you are counting on us out-of-towners to keep things going.  (After all, sane people probably wouldnt have paid $404 a ticket to see Gypsy last Saturday night -- but I did.  And there's no other way to explain a $5 million week at Gypsy.)

At the bottom line -- I am willing to dig a little deeper and invest a little more to try to keep theater happening.  And I suspect (and deeply hope) that there are enough folks like me (and folks like you) to sustain an industry that more than ever seems like an economic impossibility.

 

 

 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 1/11/25 at 8:50pm

Hi Mike, first I wanted to let you know I paid the same for Gypsy (as did the rest of my party), and it was worth every cent and you seem perfectly sane :) People like you and your wife are vital to our economy. In fact, the majority of people who see Broadway shows aren't from the tri-state area at all. It's no small feat and I admire people who come here from all over the world. even though the cost for everything involved in that is crazy. On a personal note, I went to college in Ohio and everyone was absurdly kind and wonderful. I love New York and all the screaming, but I will forever hold Ohio in my heart. 

I don't think anyone who is spending that kind of money would notice or even care about the 75 cents you mentioned. But, it helps so many things in terms of less pollution, less traffic, the ability for emergency vehicles to actually get to patients, and the list goes on. My friend lost her grandmother in this horrible situation around the George Washington Bridge about a decade ago where they could not get to her because of a jam. It was a massive scandal that turned political (gross) and she never really got over it. So, anything that can actually make a difference in saving people's lives, anywhere around NYC, I'm all for. If you're interested, I found an article about the congestion pricing and any misconceptions about it. It's dry but informative. I'm glad you enjoyed your time here. Take care. 

https://www.nrdc.org/bio/eric-goldstein/busting-myths-new-yorks-congestion-pricing-program

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 1/12/25 at 10:05am

"When people like me come in, it's a major investment -- parking at the airport, flying, cabs, sleeping quarters, restaurants -- so when the cost of the cab went up $20+ a few years ago, we went 'wow' and then paid it. When the costs of dinner at our favorite restaurants went up because of the pandemic, and the economy, and just because -- we shared a dessert, but otherwise just rolled with it. We'll roll with the 75 cents the cab added when took a cab on Sunday rather than walk a mile in the cold."

The 2025 MTA budget is 19.9 billion dollars and assumes a 4% fare and toll increase (August 2025). Matter of fact, the NYC budget is 112.4 billion which is more than most states in this country -lol. So, you are being told almost 20 billion dollars a year is not enough they need "congestion" fee to make capital improvements. The cynic in me believes MTA and others in NYC will never have enough money to spend and will find a way to take more money out of your pocket with more fees. Maybe "congestion" fee will reduce cars in NYC which is about the only good thing I can think of for it.

[hyangsoo]

Posted: 1/13/25 at 10:38am

HogansHero said: "Theatre is not a luxury but Broadway is. Like having a warm scarf today is not a luxury but having a less-warm Hermès one is.

I probably average 3-4 purchases a week at CVS. I don't have a problem getting someone to open the cases for me. I don't know why the people here who have one problem always seem to have all of them.

As I understand it, the congestion toll from NJis $6 net, not $9.

The concept is already working brilliantly. MTA has already purchased a few dozen electric buses with the proceeds of the first few days. So either buy MTA upgrades, or take mass transit and buy everyone fewer respiratory illnesses and cancers, fewer traffic fatalities, and a quieter more pleasant existence. (And that's not just in Manhattan but even in NJ!)"

 

It's $6 if you use the tunnels but $9 for the GWB. On top of $16 tolls

 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 1/13/25 at 11:33am

Here is some accurate information on the where/what/how of it all.

https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nyc-congestion-pricing-maps/

[HogansHero]

Posted: 1/13/25 at 8:10pm

hyangsoo said: "It's $6 if you use the tunnels but $9 for the GWB. On top of $16 tolls"

There is no congestion toll for the GWB because it does not deposit you south of 60th Street. What you seem to be suggesting is that you want to drive your nasty, noisy, space-consuming car into the theatre district. The bottom line is that we don't want you to, but if you insist on polluting our environment, $9 is a bargain. I would offer some more ways of thinking about this but it seems clear you are just looking for some justification for not going to the theatre anymore. 

[IfIOnlyHadAHeart]

Posted: 1/15/25 at 9:22pm

How about all the restaurants and few remaining mom and pop shops faced with fronting additional costs for supply deliveries? I think of the withering Garment District stores, the few remaining costume shops in the area and stores like Manhattan Wardrobe Supply that are the lifeline to so many wardrobe departments. Rent is already astronomical but now they have to cover congestion pricing to get their supplies?! Same thing for restaurants around the Theatre District raising prices (again) to cover these costs. It's not so much about Broadway audiences but the midtown business district as a whole. Meanwhile, when was the last time the MTA passed an audit? 

[Kad]

Posted: 1/15/25 at 11:04pm

IfIOnlyHadAHeart said: "How about all the restaurants and few remaining mom and pop shops faced with fronting additional costs for supply deliveries? I think of the withering Garment District stores, the few remaining costume shops in the area and stores like Manhattan Wardrobe Supply that are the lifeline to so many wardrobe departments. Rent is already astronomical but now they have to cover congestion pricing to get their supplies?! Same thing forrestaurants around the Theatre District raising prices (again)to cover these costs. It's not so much aboutBroadway audiences but the midtown business district as a whole. Meanwhile, when was the last time the MTA passed an audit?"

Delivery trucks currently pay $14.60 during peak and $3.60 overnight. And most delivery trucks are making many stops in Manhattan, not one, and they are likely only being charged this toll once a day since they will remain in Manhattan making their deliveries. So if they pushed the cost onto their customers and divvied it up amongst them, it kind of seems like an incredibly negligible amount to add to shipping costs.  Even if they pushed the entirety of the toll onto every  business they deliver to, it is still a low enough amount that any price increase passed along to a business's customers to offset it should be negligible.

Now, will some businesses raise prices noticeably and claim it's because of congestion pricing? Probably!

[MasterThespian 2]

Posted: 1/16/25 at 12:07pm

I would say count on it. What business has ever rejected an excuse for raising its prices?
 

Kad said: "IfIOnlyHadAHeart said: "How about all the restaurants and few remaining mom and pop shops faced with fronting additional costs for supply deliveries? I think of the withering Garment District stores, the few remaining costume shops in the area and stores like Manhattan Wardrobe Supply that are the lifeline to so many wardrobe departments. Rent is already astronomical but now they have to cover congestion pricing to get their supplies?! Same thing forrestaurants around the Theatre District raising prices (again)to cover these costs. It's not so much aboutBroadway audiences but the midtown business district as a whole. Meanwhile, when was the last time the MTA passed an audit?"

Delivery trucks currently pay $14.60 during peak and $3.60 overnight. And most delivery trucks are making many stops in Manhattan, not one, and they are likely only being charged this toll once a day since they will remain in Manhattan making their deliveries. So if they pushed the cost onto their customers and divvied it up amongst them, it kind of seems like an incredibly negligible amount to add to shipping costs. Even if they pushed the entirety of the toll onto every business they deliver to, it is still a low enough amount that any price increase passed along to a business's customers to offset it should be negligible.

Now, will some businesses raise prices noticeably and claim it's because of congestion pricing? Probably!"

 

[hyangsoo]

Posted: 1/16/25 at 2:10pm

Stay whatever you want but we don't need to be taxed more to be supporting the NYC economy including theater. It will impact some people's decisions to come into NYC and support the economy. It's basic economics.

It's $9 if you come from the GWB but if you use the tunnels there is a credit.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 1/16/25 at 2:15pm

[Kad]

Posted: 1/16/25 at 2:38pm

hyangsoo said: "Stay whatever you want but we don't need to be taxed more to be supporting the NYC economy including theater. It will impact some people's decisions to come into NYC and support the economy. It's basic economics.

It's $9 if you come from the GWB but if you use the tunnels there is a credit."

From what you've written multiple times, you already decided to come to NYC less. Now you're using congestion pricing to retroactively justify that.

Also: paying NYC taxes is supporting NYC.

Updated On: 1/16/25 at 02:38 PM

[Timon3]

Posted: 1/16/25 at 3:07pm

If you shell out for theatre tickets, maybe dinner, tunnel tolls, parking then congestion charge, I wouldn’t think an extra $10 bucks would hurt.

Yet if you are someone that comes in by subway and gets cheap tickets off the booth, then yes $10 bucks would make a big difference.

There is a big difference between the two.

Updated On: 1/16/25 at 03:07 PM

[JSquared2]

Posted: 1/16/25 at 3:37pm

Timon3 said: "If you shell out for theatre tickets, maybe dinner, tunnel tolls, parking then congestion charge, I wouldn’t think an extra $10 bucks would hurt.

Yes if you were someone that came in by subway and got cheap tickets off the booth, then yes $10 bucks would make a big difference.

There is a big difference between the two."

 

Umm...if you came in by subway, you wouldn't be paying the congestion charge --- so you'd get to keep your $10.  Problem solved.

 

[Timon3]

Posted: 1/16/25 at 4:33pm

JSquared2 said: "Timon3 said: "If you shell out for theatre tickets, maybe dinner, tunnel tolls, parking then congestion charge, I wouldn’t think an extra $10 bucks would hurt.

Yes if you were someone that came in by subway and got cheap tickets off the booth, then yes $10 bucks would make a big difference.

There is a big difference between the two."



Umm...if you came in by subway, you wouldn't be paying thecongestion charge --- so you'd get to keep your $10. Problem solved.

"

I know that about subway, but really that isn’t the point I’m making and you know it.