Does sucessful equal good
Does sucessful equal good
winston89
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/18/06
#1Does sucessful equal good
Posted: 7/19/07 at 12:38pmI was wondering what you all thought about this. If a show is making money and doing well financially does that automatically mean it's good? I rember having this discussion on the forum when Phantom became the longest running show on broadway. I personally don't think that just becaue a show is makin money doesn't mean it is good. But, there are some who feel that if a show weren't good it wouldn't be making a lot of money. What is your opinion on this?
"If you try to shag my husband while I am still alive, I will shove the art of motorcycle maintenance up your rancid little Cu**. That's a good dear"
Tom Stoppard's Rock N Roll
#2re: Does sucessful equal good
Posted: 7/19/07 at 12:41pmNo. Sucessful never equals good (Not to say a sucessful show can't be good, and an unsucessful show can't suck).
I am a firm believer in serendipity- all the random pieces coming together in one wonderful moment, when suddenly you see what their purpose was all along.
#2re: Does sucessful equal good
Posted: 7/19/07 at 12:44pmGiven that Cats made a bushel of money, I can safely say that successful does not necessarily equal good. Having said that, however, there are also snobs who believe that anything that is successful can not be good. Of course, that makes no sense either.
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson
#3re: Does sucessful equal good
Posted: 7/19/07 at 12:45pmI don't wanna sound snarky, but it seems like you've answered your own question. You said you yourself don't think successful equals good, which means of course that it doesn't. As much as we rely on critics and reviews to tell us otherwise, "good" is 100% subjective. I think some shows are good, you think other shows are good, etc. "Successful" just means more people THINK it's good than bad.
#5re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 7/19/07 at 12:52pmespecially during sex.
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"In Oz, the verb is douchifizzation." PRS
"In Oz, the verb is douchifizzation." PRS
Julian2
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/10/06
#6re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 7/19/07 at 12:53pmOH! CALCUTTA!
I have several names, one is Julian2. I am also The Opps Girl. But cross me, and I become Bitch Dooku!
#7re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 7/19/07 at 1:01pm
both the words "good" and "successful" are subjective, and in the eye of the beholder. Sondheim and Prince have always said that the orig. production of Pacific Overtures was a success, when financially it was far from it.
you can't see the world in black and white when it comes to art, to do so undermines the artists and yourself as a subjective audience member.
"I'm an American, Damnit!!! And if it's three things I don't believe in, it's quitting and math."
Thesbijean
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/9/04
#8re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 7/19/07 at 1:15pmWhether a show is "good" or not is completely subjective. When it comes to a show's "success," there are two sides to that. Financial AND Creative success. If a show does not recoup, it was a financial failure, but it certainly could have been a successful show in terms of artistic merit. Whether or not a show is "good" is very similar to whether it was successful in an artistic nature.
#9re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 7/19/07 at 2:18pm
Successful does not equal good, and good does not equal successful (I'm lookin' at YOU, Company!)
On the flipside, "good" is so subjective. I think I show can be "good" if it fulfills what it set out to do. Just because it's a light entertainment does not mean it's "bad."
It's just a message board. Let's not take it too seriously.
Sondheim_Geek
Broadway Star Joined: 2/20/07
#10re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 7/19/07 at 2:26pm
Absolutely not.
Grey Gardens, Company, and 75% of Sondheim shows vs. Cats
ashbash1990
Broadway Star Joined: 10/15/06
#11re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 7/19/07 at 2:45pmbut isn't it possible to recognize a good without enjoying it/ liking it?
What a night! I was in more laps than a napkin!
#12re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 7/19/07 at 5:41pm
Definitely. I can't think of examples right now, but there are definitely things out there that are certainly very good but that doesn't mean I like 'em. Oh, 'Beyond Black' by Hilary Mantel! Really good book, but I f***ing HATED it. XP
speedjeans
Chorus Member Joined: 7/18/07
#13re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 7/19/07 at 5:54pm
Re: "Sucessful never equals good"
How many examples do you want to prove that statement is way over the top?
I could start with 50.
#14re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 7/19/07 at 5:57pm^ Did you not read what he wrote in the parentheses?
#15re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 7/19/07 at 5:59pm
IMO, Success does not always equals good, but it also does not always equal bad as well.
"All I ask of you is one thing: please don't be cynical. I hate cynicism -- it's my least favorite quality and it doesn't lead anywhere. Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they were going to get. But if you work really hard and you're kind, amazing things will happen."
Conan O'Brien
friedrichVT
Leading Actor Joined: 5/4/06
#16re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 7/20/07 at 12:58amJust for the record, Cats was the talk of the town when it opened. From the staging to the innovative choregraphy ,and feline movement, nevermind some wonderful performances. It was the Wicked of its day...EVRYONE wanted to see it. Dated yes...Unsuccessful...NO. It may have stayed too long at the fair but it was a hot ticket 4 a while.
PitPro2004
Broadway Star Joined: 2/15/04
#18re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 2/20/11 at 10:23amGood, successful and popular are never the same thing or relevant in my worthless opinion. Otherwise shows like the "Jersey Shore" and so called singers (hock, spit) like Ke$ha would not be where they are.
"Sticks and stones, sister. Here, have a Valium!"
#19re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 2/20/11 at 4:49pmI think it is impossible to answer this question. People on here would argue that WICKED sucks yet the many people who walk out in tears would say otherwise. Does that mean one of the two is wrong? No, just a difference of taste
"Life in theater is give and take...but you need to be ready to give more then you take..."
TheatreDiva90016
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/10/04
#20re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 2/20/11 at 5:00pmWas does Robbo come and bump old threads for no reason?
"TheatreDiva90016 - another good reason to frequent these boards less."<<>>
“I hesitate to give this line of discussion the validation it so desperately craves by perpetuating it, but the light from logic is getting further and further away with your every successive post.” <<>>
-whatever2
AEA AGMA SM
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/13/09
#21re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 2/20/11 at 5:15pmAt least this one people could still theoretically add to the discussion. It's not nearly as useless as bumping those two threads about some Hairspray screening gone wrong.
#22re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 2/21/11 at 10:42amSuccessful means that enough people think it's good enough to buy tickets and keep the show running. A show's quality is not merely defined by academics nor is it solely based on one or two criteria.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
winston89
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/18/06
#23re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 2/21/11 at 11:19am
I just looked at the list of long runners on Playbill. The top four longest running shows (in order) are Phantom, Cats, Les Miserables, and A Chorus Line. Now, the only two shows that I would consider to be pretty god are A Chorus Line and Les Miserables. I can't stand and never got what it was that drew people to Cats. And, I will admit, that Phantom, although a guilty pleasure of mine, is not the best thing ever written nor the best show out there.
However, I think that a show has to have some people who like it in order for it to sell tickets. I mean, if there wasn't a bunch of people who thought that Cats was amazing and that it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, it wouldn't have had the longevity that it had.
"If you try to shag my husband while I am still alive, I will shove the art of motorcycle maintenance up your rancid little Cu**. That's a good dear"
Tom Stoppard's Rock N Roll
#24re: Does successful equal good
Posted: 2/21/11 at 11:32amIn financial terms, no. Just because a show is making money and is successful does not make it good. Take Wicked for example. Of course whether or not a show is "good" or not is up to the individual.
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