Evita - Page 3
Evita
#50Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 9:27am
Excellent way of putting the LuPone vs. the field debate into perspective- I really think a lot of it does boil down to the American Premiere Recording is one of those cast albums that has legendary status- and as a result those of us who never got a chance to see LuPone in the show live automatically think that magic captured on disc is what was on stage each and every night- not so. It was very interesting to read in her memoir that she herself didn't feel good about singing the role until she did it in Australia.
As far as the comments so far about the lack of Hal Prince's staging vs. the way this is being done- any attempt to duplicate that original production would only bring on further comparisons to that original cast. I think in the end Elena and this current cast & production design will benefit from the fact that this show has not been seen by a Broadway Audience in a very very long time- how long have we who adore this show been crying out for a Broadway revival? In the meantime we got an abortion of a motion picture with a lowered score, countless national tours and regional productions, some of which didn't live up to High School and College Productions that I have seen. I think the time is right and I think that while whizzer and michaelbennett are probably dead right that her vocal approach to the role will split a lot of people- overall this production will probably end up being the darling of this years season- at least I'm hoping so.
Auggie27
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/13/03
#51Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 9:58am
And the irony about the American Recording:
For many of us who had worn out the double concept album with Julie Covington and an unknown Colm Wilkerson (as Che, way before LES MIZ), the show had a strong rock underbelly. Exhibit A: "The Lady's Got Potential," oddly enough retained for the film, but real rock n' roll in the original. The Covington vocals (which Paige came closer to approximating) were decidedly rock (and pop)-infused. You have to remember: the show's songs were unknown beyond "Don't Cry for Me..." unless you were an American who owned the concept album. We went to the show expecting to hear something closer to that album. If I think back to that first preview, I missed the Covington's raw sounds. "Buenos Aires," rendered by LuPone, sounded stodgy and without the sweaty sexy feel. LuPone's seemed like a standard issue musical theater performances, nicely-acted, prettily sung, but not with that edge.
And the context for the creators was very different. Remember, shaggy-headed young Lloyd Weber was "cool" back then, not trashed and treated like the commercial CATS man who became the object of jokes. We just had the super cool SUPERSTAR, which was the anti-musical. EVITA came along with additional daring, and that belted score on the break in the voice was thrilling. So LuPone's more measured, carefully placed sounds struck my 20-something ears as too traditional. I now recall that Klausner reminded me of Covington. As a sidebar: Even the designs were too staid. LuPone looked tacky and obviously "costumed" in the brown wig and "Buenos Aires" dress, not sexy. She had trouble suggesting the young Eva, and found her footing with "A New Argentina," though she didn't initially sing it with the excitement seen in the Tony clip. We have to remember, she'd been playing it on the road an in NYC a full year before the Tony's. She built her interpretation, including her vocals, over that run.
"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling
AngelorPhantom1359
Understudy Joined: 12/25/11
#52Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 10:03amHow was Roger and Martin during "Goodnight and Thank You"? It happens to be the song that I judge my Eva's on, because if she can't hit those F's in full voice and if Martin can't hit those B's, then it's all downhill from there for me. I saw a clip of her from London and she sang it in head voice and I was wondering how she was last night.
AngelorPhantom1359
Understudy Joined: 12/25/11
#56Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 10:17am
"Goodnight and Thank You" was fine. Elena kinda of sang her part in head voice, but that didn't seem to be the issue for people. The two of them singing together created some interesting diction and really if you weren't familiar with lyrics you would be lost (as the guy next to my friends and me told us at intermission).
I believe this is the last revival for the season, and after seeing Follies, JCS, Porgy and Bess, Evita, Clear Day and Godspell my vote would easily be for Follies to take home the Tony.
Marie: Don't be in such a hurry about that pretty little chippy in Frisco.
Tony: Eh, she's a no chip!
henrikegerman
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/29/05
lynnetoomey
Understudy Joined: 5/8/09
#58Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 10:52am
So, perhaps I made a mistake by digging out Brantley's very lukewarm review from when he saw it in London several years ago, but unfortunately I was completely underwhelmed last evening. I did not see the original production in New York, but I did see a very early national touring company (John Herrera and Valerie Perri?), and I still recall the stunning fuild motion of the entire piece.
This prodiction feels very proficient, but oddly labored. Although rather pleasing to the eye, it has a static (and at times boring) quality that I am having a hard time putting my finger on. Although not fair, comparisons are inevitable, and count me as one who thinks that Eva was written for a large voice, and Elena Roger doesn't have the chops. Even though I know the score very well, there were numerous occasions where her diction was unintelligeable. Ricky Martin lacks the gravitas required, and Michael Cerveris is very good in a role that does not engage you to the show.
As usual, The Marquis is not an acoustically friendly house, and the orchestra and chorus often sound compressed when they should be soaring.
If you've never seen Evita, you may wonder what all the fuss is about.
#59Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 11:02am
Am I the only one that is not really a fan of the original cast recording of EVITA? I think Patti is good in parts but she screams the high notes and Mandy does that whisper, head voice thing which makes me want to kick something (lower register - beautiful. High Register - irritating as all hell). Also, why does he go into the whispery head voice on notes that are usually comfortable in a baritones range? And Peron is the only one that has any type of spanish accent, which his over emphasized rolled "R's" are irritating as well. I much prefer the concept album and the movie album to the original cast recording. But, that's just me.
Back on topic......I want to see this show SO BAD!
"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2
Updated On: 3/13/12 at 11:02 AM
#60Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 12:08pm
I would say Roger's voice most closely approximates the tone Covington had on the White Album, but one thing that I do think was smart of the creative team, is that, love it or hate it, it's a voice (like LuPone and Paige before her) that is completely unique and instantly recognizable and different from anyone else who has played the role. I don't necessarily think its a bad thing for audiences to come away being polarized or divided by the performance of the actress playing Eva, as in a way, that is precisely what the authors are trying to say about the odyssey of the real woman.
There was a really interesting article I read in an article in London when I saw this production over there that featured an interview with Rice/Webber in which they essentially said that it was Prince's concept for Eva to 'bark' the score in what they inferred to be 'relentless' fashion because Prince really saw Peron as a villian (LuPone in her memoir recalls Prince's concept for the character: 'knarled hands').
With the 'softening' of the character in this revival, its not really surprising that they cast someone with a softer sound, though as I mentioned earlier, Roger to my ears was definitely holding back vocally last night from what I saw in London.
24601
Swing Joined: 11/13/11
#61Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 12:44pm
^
"I don't necessarily think its a bad thing for audiences to come away being polarized or divided by the performance of the actress playing Eva, as in a way, that is precisely what the authors are trying to say about the odyssey of the real woman."
Wow, wonderfully put!
I had the great fortune of seeing Bertilla Baker as Eva in a south Florida production (just a year or two before she stepped into Tommy on Broadway) and was fairly blown away by her vocals and performance.
I agree that after years of Lupone, I do expect a big voice, Of course, I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned the M word...Madonna. With a smaller voice (albeit likely HIGHLY produced for film), she managed to do quite well by the role (to my pleasant surprise).
But I recall that while my mom and I loved the production we saw in Florida, my dad felt largely underwhelmed by the entire thing aside from his favorite tune, DCFMA. The difference being that mom and I had listened to the soundtrack a thousand times and appreciated seeing what we had only before heard. Dad felt that the character of eva was not one he could easily warm up to and found the entire piece to be nearly one emotional level, or more appropriately, a constant procession of up and down that at first felt exhausting and later felt boring. I couldn't disagree more but my family's response does seem to echo some of the present sentiments.
Thank you all for your insightful and intelligent comments. It was a great pleasure to read responses to the actual work rather than having to sift through pages of painful offense/defense.
"Who are you, now?"
Updated On: 3/13/12 at 12:44 PM
#62Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 1:18pm
wtf is everyone doing here?
There's already a thread on this, guys
https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?thread=1042929&dt=4&boardid=1
Let's get our sh!t together, please.
CHURCH DOOR TOUCAN GAY MARKETING PUPPIES MUSICAL THEATER STAPLES PERIOD OIL BITCHY SNARK HOLES
#63Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 1:40pm
I didn't take pics during the performance, unlike some people around me. from Roman in...Baltimore-Washington Int'l Airport. This is the only picture I took at the Marquis stage door. Max von Essen as Agustin Magaldi.
Does anyone know if Ricky and Elena finally made an appearance at the stage door?
"Noel [Coward] and I were in Paris once. Adjoining rooms, of course. One night, I felt mischievous, so I knocked on Noel's door, and he asked, 'Who is it?' I lowered my voice and said 'Hotel detective. Have you got a gentleman in your room?' He answered, 'Just a minute, I'll ask him.'" (Beatrice Lillie)
Updated On: 3/13/12 at 01:40 PM
#65Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 2:38pm
To add to Whizzer's comment about Goodnight and Thank You--that's a song that's kinda infamous for having lyris that people who don't know the show have trouble making out--I know when people knock Tim Rice, it comes up a lot.
Castle, you make a lot of great, and interesting points as does Auggie, although I find it funny that you call the movie an "abortion" (which I assume means you hated it--I'm fairly mixed on it myself), when this movie seems to take so many elements (more literal staging, a softer Eva, You Must Love Me of course) from the movie as a starting point, something I got the impression ALW at any rate intentionally wanted when Grandage production opened in London.
I enjoy the concept album, and actually as a kid that was the only recording my library had, so it was what I heard most. But I admit, I think Hershy Kay's revised orchestrations for the show when it went to stage, which did make it less rocky (ie adding the dance rhythm to Buenos Aires), worked better for the theatre in many ways. The mov ie of course in many instances went back to the concept album's orchestrations.
#66Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 2:54pm
MB mentioned that I said in that other long Evita thread that the show really isn't a direct narrative and that's one reason a more realistic approach doesn't work for me--others (including MB himself, I'm pretty sure) said the same, so it's hardly a new view. In some ways, I guess people found Prince's symbolism a bit heavy handed (ie Art of the Possible, a song Prince explicitly asked ALW/TR to write, as a game of musical rocking chairs), but it feels like the best way to approach the material. The movie (partly IMHO--like I said, I'm mixed) got away with a more literal take partly because it was filmed as a music video--you can do sudden shifts to different locations, time shift montages, or suddenly cut to a more surreal scene like the Waltz in an easier way. I guess Grandage was smart in a way, to approach it so differently, though like I said I had heard it was partly a conscious attempt to be a bit more like the film audiences might know.
"
I certainly have heard reports from others who saw her in California and early in previews who came away feeling like she was a "chorus girl" who couldn't fill the expectation set by Elaine Paige"
This is neither here nor there, but it is a good point that you and others have made, about how spectacular the Evita cast album is and that's coloured people's view. On the other hand the original London cast album (which may not even still be in print--as a kid I remember finding it a bit funny how most people seemed to completely skip over it--going from the concept album to basically acting like the first theatrical recording was the American premier Cast), is such a lifeless recording. I think the cast is at least good, but the album is, at least for me, a bit of a chore to listen to, and I think at least some of the fault just simply goes to the recording itself, which is not helped by being a highlights album.
broadwayriff
Swing Joined: 2/2/12
#67Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 3:22pm
I think alot of the problem here is that unlike "Follies" or "Sweeney Todd" or any other great musical revived multiple times, is that there's nothing but the original to compare it to. I like Elena's vocals because she seems more serious and more threatning than others who I think could be over animated at times. And the point about not liking Eva, ALW has even said that he found it difficult to write for her because she is likeable.
Updated On: 3/13/12 at 03:22 PM
RippedMan
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/14/05
#68Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 3:40pm
I'd love to hear the concept recording if anyone has it.
I love this show, but I'm not a fan of the whole "realism" look. It's a rock musical loosely based on her life. I mean, it is her life, but it's been "Hollywood-ised" up a bit. I don't think we need an ensemble that's full of real Argentines or a realistic set. I think this show could be done in the round with barely any set and still be a great night of theater. But I'm interested to see this production.
#69Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 4:30pmEric- I think my problem with the movie comes down to Madonna and direction- Alan Parker- I don't think he could make his mind up between making a long "music video" or an actual movie, and in parts he succeeds at both, but never committs fully. I just never felt like the movie was what it could have been- which is saying a lot because how long did it take to bring it to the screen? Of course, if he had gone through with Oliver Stone as his Director as planned I'm sure the Peron's would have been linked to the Kennedy assassination, and that would have given ALW some interesting choices for original songs...for the record I do prefer the Original Orchestrations like many of you... there is a lot of really good stuff on that concept recording, and as mentioned, I don't think the OLC should be disregarded either- Paige & Essex were great, and Webber stated on the record many times that Essex was his favorite Che, he just wished he had stayed with the show longer than he did
Luv2goToShows
Broadway Star Joined: 9/13/09
PattiLover
Stand-by Joined: 2/20/04
#71Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 4:42pm
"To her loyalest fans: This is not LuPone bashing, just a gentle way of pointing out that her performance was liked but not universally adored."
That's a moot point now, seeing as that LuPone owns the role over Paige, Covington and Madonna. Lots of performances in film or theatre become legendary long after the fact.
I know she has her detractors, but let's face it - from a marketing standpoint, LuPone is what people think of when they think of Evita.
That's showbiz.
#72Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 4:49pm
I will half agree with you- Patti & Evita is what Theatre people think- not what non-theatre people think- when I talk to non-theatre people and say things like "Patti LuPone, Betty Buckley" I then have to futher explain who they are, and these are people who get around fairly well... we think that way- Evita is a Marquee show, and to the non-die-hard-theatre world that is all that counts, they have heard of the show, they know the big song, and right now they are being told this is going to be a hit show and a hard ticket to get, and like Sondheim loves to say, when people outside of the NYC theatre scene come to the city for a show, all they want to know is what is the hardest ticket to get right now and that is the show they see- who played the role or who "owns" the role doesn't amount to much of anything to those outside of our world
To a vast majority of the people who see this show who hold no real loyalty to a particular Eva, if they like Elena, that will be the end of it, we make up a much smaller piece of the pie than we like to think we do
Updated On: 3/13/12 at 04:49 PM
#73Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 5:07pm
"but let's face it - from a marketing standpoint, LuPone is what people think of when they think of Evita."
I think it's more who someone saw/heard first. My first introduction to EVITA was the movie version. So, Madonna and Antonio are the first ones to come to mind when I hear about the show. People who saw Elaine think of her first and so and and so on.
"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2
#74Evita
Posted: 3/13/12 at 5:07pm
I saw the London production and quite enjoyed it. That it closed after slightly less than a year was disappointing, and I feared it would never make it to Broadway. But it has. Based on the mixed Broadwayworld.com reviews from the first preview, I'm confident that the show is in good shape. Elena Roger, and this production, will have their detractors, but I'm confident the show will be around the next time I make it to New York (hopefully this summer).
I haven't seen much talk of the "new" orchestrations, nor the change to the ending of Buenos Aires (rather than end on a very low growl, it ends on a high note: "just a lit-tle touch of STAR! Qua-li-teeeeee!").
Coach Bob knew it all along: you've got to get obsessed and stay obsessed. You have to keep passing the open windows. (John Irving, The Hotel New Hampshire)
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