"'FOSSE/VERDON' COMING TO FX" — Page 20

According to the book, what´s left to cover is All that Jazz, Dancin´, Paddy´s death (which is very moving in the book) , Star 80, Big deal and the revival of Charity...a lot!!!!

From the trailer I guess that Gwen hates the idea of Ann Reinking replacing her in Chicago...and Bob´s death will match the Bye bye life number from All that Jazz...

Just one song???

bear88, if the complaint about the scene is just that Verdon seems to cram too many grievances into what is presented as a public moment (even if the other people were all longtime friends), then I can understand the objection. Of course condensation is the soul of drama, but apparently it was quite a scene in real life! The biography reports that in the middle of it, Chita Rivera wrote a note on a piece of paper and passed it to Fred Ebb; it read, "Give her the number". That she felt a need to write it down rather speaking up suggests to me a highly volatile situation.

And Fosse, the newly minted film auteur, had already told anyone who would listen that he was only doing CHICAGO as a gift to Verdon, Her feeling of betrayal must have been overpowering.

I've reached the CHICAGO chapters in the biography and every thing I've said about the subject and more was already on the page in that book, including my comparison of "Nowadays" as a sort of "Rose's Turn" for Roxie Hart.

Updated On: 5/27/19 at 10:47 PM

Although I saw it many times during its original run, I haven't seen the revival or CHICAGO in any form except the movie since 1977. But other posters above remind us that Verdon sang the entire chorus of "Nowadays" before Rivera joined in.

My response, also above, was that still isn't exactly a solo, 11 o'clock number and, anyway, Verdon had no way of knowing how the number would be divided up at the time Fosse first suggested a duet.

But I understand your objection that Verdon's entire tirade sounded "written". I heard it as a lot of things she had thought but choked back over the years so it came out like a well-prepared list of grievances. I can certainly understand that it sounded different to you and others.

BTW and FWIW and, of course, there are contracts and there is "muscle", but Verdon had an extraordinary contract for CHICAGO that gave her veto power over every word, note, costume and movement. However, Fosse could have quit or, quite believably in his condition, gotten "sick" and left Verdon in the lurch. I'm sure she had no intention of letting that happen, solo or no solo.

Frankly, given what I know now, I think Verdon was amazingly generous to allow her passion project of almost 15 years to become such a showcase for her co-star. It speaks as much to her appreciation of talent, I suspect, as to her personal generosity to another dancer.

According to Chita's understudy, Lenora Nemitz, Gwen's tirade during the scene introducing Nowadays never remotely happened and it was always a duet. Too much artistic license is being taken with facts in this series and it would've been easy to check with the people who were in the room.

John Rubinstein has put on the record that Gwen never showed up to a Pippin rehearsal, laid on the floor and talked to Bob about Chicago. No one ever would do that. We all knew that while the scene was being presented to us on the television. Nor did Bob yell at Candy Brown telling her she was behind.

While the television show is pretty to look at it is factually incorrect and an unfortunate hit job on a brilliant choreographer who actually came up with his own ideas. Since Nicole is executive producer and green lights everything she obviously has issues with her father.

Lastly, one of her mother's lovers has recently said Gwen would never have wanted this series to happen. She was a private person who cultivated the image of a star from a previous time. She would either not talk about things or lie. She would not want any of this put in front of the public let alone with all of the inaccuracies.

Bob was never this moross. He was clever and intelligent. Nothing miserable man being portrayed. Watch the interviews on video. Not close.

Wasson interviewed Reinking for his book. She said many of the same things she said here. He also interviewed other people, and they brought different perspectives. Ann Reinking says Fosse wasn't abusive or exploitative. Cheryl Clark told him to his face he was exploitative, and walked off the set of "All That Jazz."

That's what a good biography does; it brings a wide variety of perspectives to one person's life, as it should. You can't even come close to a complete picture of someone if you only talk to his girlfriend, or his daughter, or someone who worked for him, or his best friend. You need it all, or at least as much of it as you can get. Everyone sees and shares a different view, and all of those views together help build up a picture of the subject.

I'm not saying Wasson is God, though. I didn't always care for his point of view on some things, or his turn of phrase. But to his credit, he talked to a LOT of people who were there, and made every effort to be comprehensive.

Incidentally, Wasson never said that Verdon ranted about "Nowadays" in the rehearsal room, but he did say she ranted before they got to the rehearsal room. Again, there's consolidation and rearrangement of events for dramatic purposes.

Bettyboy72 said: "MCfan2 said: "Wasson interviewed Reinking for his book. She said many of the same things she said here. He also interviewed other people, and they brought different perspectives. Ann Reinking says Fosse wasn't abusive or exploitative. Cheryl Clark told him to his face he was exploitative, and walked off the set of "All That Jazz."

That's what a good biography does; it brings a wide variety of perspectives to one person's life, as it should. You can't even come close to a complete picture of someone if you only talk to his girlfriend, or his daughter, or someone who worked for him, or his best friend. You need it all, or at least as much of it as you can get. Everyone sees and shares a different view, and all of those views together help build up a picture of the subject.

I'm not saying Wasson is God, though. I didn't always care for his point of view on some things, or his turn of phrase. But to his credit, he talked to a LOT of people who were there, and made every effort to be comprehensive.

Incidentally, Wasson never said that Verdon ranted about "Nowadays" in the rehearsal room, but he did say she ranted before they got to the rehearsal room. Again, there's consolidation and rearrangement of events for dramatic purposes."

It's clear that limited series writers failed because they gave us none of the charm, charisma or love Fosse exuded which may be in Wasson's book.

I agree with you Bettyboy72 and if I were Reinking I would be livid that they fabricated a story about her having sex with Fosse in his hospital room immediately after his surgery. I would also be ringing up Nicole and take her to task for allowing them to include that blatant falsehood.

It's disrespectful to the memories of those who are no longer with us to defend themselves and it's disrespectful to those who are alive and have to sit and watch their life be toyed around in this way.

Miles2Go2 said: "So I guess that you hated “What’s Love Got to Do With It”, “Ray”, “Walk the Line”, “Sweet Dreams”, and “Coal Miner’s Daughter” to name a few. All plus many more most certainly took artistic liberties and used dramatic license to make certain points in a dramatic way including combining and condensing characters into one character and attribution of actions by one or more characters to another. At least there’s only tonight’s episode and then the armchair quarterbacking afterwards which will die out over next few weeks. "

As will the die hard defenders!! See how that works?

Carlos - You didn’t really address my larger point, but that’s fine. For the record, I find the show fascinating...and perhaps flawed as any attempt to capture the life of a real person is bound to be.

I will say that I find it fascinating that people keep watching something that they apparently actively hate. It’s certainly someone’s prerogative to do so, but I tend to only listen or watch or engage with works of art where I can find something to appreciate in.

Updated On: 5/28/19 at 08:36 PM

Miles2Go2 said: "Carlos- You didn’t really address my larger point, but that’s fine. For the record, I find the show fascinating...and perhaps flawed as any attempt to capture the life of a real person is bound to be.

I will say that I find it fascinating that people keep watching something that they apparently actively hate. It’s certainly someone’s prerogative to do so, but I tend to only listen or watch or engage with works of art where I can find something to appreciate in."

i don’t hate it at all. I find it questionable that they took the liberties that they did. I do understand that many autobiographical films take liberties with the truth - but I find it interesting that with Nicole involved that this many liberties were taken I mean this goes beyond condensing things - they’re just making stuff up that just did not happen.

ljay889 said: "Wow, I thought the ending was perfect. Very emotional. Michelle deserves every award under the sun for this. I love how she perfectly enhanced Gwen’s signature rasp in her singing voice as the years progressed.
I do wish they mentioned that Gwen found plenty of film and TV work through out the 80s and 90s. "

Michelle Williams’ performance is a tour de force. Best things about this show.

Updated On: 5/28/19 at 11:29 PM

Now that I've composed myself after that finale..... What a finale and a thrilling, just respectful way to end this series. Yes, we all know what's about to happen, but it was done so well and moving. From Gwen doing "If My Friends Could See Me Now", to Fosse going through the audience in "All That Jazz" to the heartbreaking montage ending of their relationship. I wish there was more.



On a side note, Gwen didn't open the Chicago tour. I was expecting to hear a mention of why she didn't open the tour, but nothing was said. Gwen closed the Chicago tour in 1978.