"'FOSSE/VERDON' COMING TO FX" — Page 22

There's an interesting interview with Nicole Fosse in Vulture, in which she acknowledges the show's factual inaccuracies (she likens them to historical fiction). In fact, the 'happy ending' in the last episode wasn't nearly so happy.in real life. In 2000 Nicole's husband was killed by a drunk driver, leaving her with three small children. That's why Gwen moved in with them, to help Nicole with the children. Then Gwen died two months later.

https://www.vulture.com/2019/05/nicole-fosse-fosse-verdon-childhood.html

I don't mind inaccuracies for the sake of condensed storytelling. For example, when Verdon and Fosse are talking about Reinking's new boyfriend, Verdon says she learned about him while teaching Reinking the role of Roxie for Broadway. But Ann Reinking didn't break up with Fosse until Dancin', which is where she met her new boyfriend, and that was a year after she did Roxie on Broadway. That doesn't matter to me. I clocked it, but I let it go.

What bothers me is changes made for what felt like the sake of character assassination, which is honestly what much of this show felt like to me. The hospital scene with Fosse and Reinking is being pointed out by many people not just because the timeline is off, but because by moving its action further ahead, it changes the meaning behind what that moment of sex was between them. From the Wasson book and Reinking's interview, you can tell it was an intimate moment of fear and joy for them, but that has been changed in the show to a moment of violation. Look at Margaret Qualley's face in that scene. She is not Bob's partner in that moment, she's his subservient sex doll. Changing the timeline does that.

What I wish the show got to more, and we really only see it in the final episode, is the special bond the two had when working together and in life. Verdon said in interviews that them breaking up wasn't as painful as we might think, because they started as friends and there was still friendship there when they stopped being together romantically. How truthful she is about the pain we may never know as Verdon was notoriously very private, but then again she and Fosse always defied the norm so why shouldn't it be the case with their breakup? Even so, the word "friendship" should have been stapled to the wall in the writers' room when they were doing this show. We saw it in the last 20 minutes of the finale, but damn did I want more. The two had many downs, but they had incredible highs and their friendship is what fueled their collaboration, which is ultimately what changed Broadway.

The irony is that I think Fosse would have been perfectly fine with how he was portrayed on this show. It's Verdon who I think would have been furious.

Mike Costa said: "According to Chita's understudy, LenoraNemitz, Gwen's tirade during the scene introducing Nowadays never remotely happened and it was always a duet. Too much artistic license is being taken with facts in this series and it would've been easy to check with the people who were in the room.

John Rubinstein has put on the record that Gwen never showed up to a Pippin rehearsal, laid on the floor and talked to Bob about Chicago. No one ever would do that. We all knew that while the scene was being presented to us on the television. Nor did Bob yell at Candy Brown telling her she was behind."


Gee, do you think it's possible Verdon and Fosse's daughter may have been witness to some things an understudy (however talented) was not?


Of course, Verdon didn't stop Fosse in the middle of rehearsal to talk about a different show, but that's pretty minor as dramatic license goes. Whether Fosse yelled at Candy Brown I don't know, but the biography reports that he frequently found one dancer to use as a "scapegoat", thereby putting fear in the hearts of the rest of the cast while allowing him to be more or less pleasant to everyone but the scapegoat. So while Candy Brown may be a stand-in for various others in different shows, the dramatization is essentially accurate.

Updated On: 5/30/19 at 03:34 PM

“Also, in the final episode, Gwen uses a Japanese santoku knife when preparing a meal in 1975. While this is a common knife nowadays, santoku knifes were not commonly used in the USA until the early 2000s”

Are you trolling, or are you really THAT big of a pain <<edited by BWW staff>>? Who cares about knife accuracy, unless it’s actually a plot point?

Updated On: 5/30/19 at 04:12 PM

GiantsInTheSky2 said: "Are you trolling, or are you really THAT big of a pain <>? Who cares about knife accuracy, unless it’s actually a plot point?"



I'm neither a troll, nor a big pain...
The knife stood out to me and took me immediately out of the moment as much as seeing a gladiator wearing an iwatch would. When you add up a lot of these little anachronisms in one series, it becomes an issue. If it doesn't bother you, that's terrific. But there's no need to name call over what someone else thinks is worth discussing.

Very sharp .. to miss the point of the knife .. The best way to deal with this faux pas is simply to smile -- not to let it color your view of the show. Like the coffee cup in Game of Thrones

brody, I'm really glad you enjoyed the series! Thank you for filling in the gaps for so many of the rest of us.

I thought this series was fascinating. It was very brave to do a show on Fosse and Verdon because it is generally believed that anything musical or theater related does not appeal to the masses. I am glad that the risk was taken if only to expose a new generation to who they were and the contributions they made.

I would have to agree with many on this forum who expressed their concerns over Sam Rockwell's portrayal of Bob Fosse. As written, the part was devoid of any charm or joy for life and what he was accomplishing. What came across was a very insecure, self-doubting, negative, manipulative, self destructive individual. There is no doubt that Fosse had his demons. We all have more than one side and I feel that this particular series did not make the effort or take the time to present Bob Fosse's many sides - it stuck to one and that is quite unfortunate.

On a more positive note the series did accomplish to establish and reinforce and give long overdue credit to the great Gwen Verdon.

Michelle Williams was revelatory and I hope she is showered with many awards for her gutsy and honest portrayal.

Updated On: 6/2/19 at 09:02 AM

I saw this on another board and I am curious about it myself, tons of people smoked on the show but Ann Reinking didn't... did Ann smoke in real life? It amazes me how much they smoked and were able to dance like that!

Finally finished the series last night and loved it. I went in knowing it was a dramatization that would have some liberties taken because...every historical story dramatized for film does. Every single one. Even the stupid hospital sex scene. I didn't take that seriously one tiny bit nor did I really care if it happened at that time or another time. It was over 40 years ago. I don't think any crimes were committed from the writing of that scene.

Why are people acting so new and so incensed to the concept of the process of adapting history to a dramatic form? Is it because the subject is dear to them?

Yup. Well...for some, but not all (loved reading BrodyFosse123's reaction to the series). Just wait until the Zellweger Judy Garland film comes out. No matter how good it is or she is in it, it's going to get ugly around here.

kofler22 said: "Weren´t they supposed to release a complete soundtrack album after the show final episode? Any news regarding that? I hope they do, since there´s a lot of material that they left out of the weekly releases! :)"

Seems all those tracks ARE the complete soundtrack. Would have loved an official recording of Michelle’s acoustic “Where Am I Going?” and her duet with Bianca on “Nowadays.” Heck, even “Who’s Got the Pain?” and her “A Little Brains; A Little Talent.”

In theater, sometimes the best critique is simply ‘it didn’t work’. It’s a lukewarm appraisal given when all the elements are in place for something spectacular to happen but the result falls short of expectations. For me, Fosse/Verdon didn’t work. The talent was there, the story was there, and the production values were top shelf; yet at the end of the mini-series I felt underwhelmed. And mostly because of the depictions of the two leads.

Bob Fosse was a choreographer of unparalleled talent who created the most singularly recognizable movements in dance. He was also a workaholic who directed three seminal films of the 70s, dated lots of women, had a few health problems here and there (some more serious than others), all the while winning praise from theater, film and television critics and audiences. Throughout the ups and downs, he seemed to enjoy much of his chaotic, self-destructive hedonistic life. That’s what we saw in All That Jazz and similar portraits have been painted countless times elsewhere.

This version of Fosse, as played by Sam Rockwell, was sullen, somber and sickly. Where did he get his creative energy from? Whatever inspired him to produce the choreography that now bears his name wasn't shown in this series. But we did see his perfectionism treated as insensitivity/cruelty towards dancers. What made him irresistible to women? Outside of career ambition, at least three women truly loved him. However, we can only guess what made him attractive in private because what we saw was a frail man clutching his arm, bitter about practically everything. On screen, he smoked, he coughed, and he made several creative decisions apparently for the express purpose of belittling his partner and muse, Gwen Verdon.

Gwen Verdon was portrayed as the model of the long-suffering wife. As evidenced by the praise Michelle Williams received on this site – she sounds like Gwen, give her an Emmy! she dances like Gwen, give her a Golden Globe! she cries like Gwen, give her another Emmy! – it seems that some viewers want to reward Verdon’s talent and loyalty to Fosse by awarding Williams. This is in the same vein as those that honored Freddie Mercury by giving Rami Malek an Oscar. Malek was good, as is Williams, but I found some of the comments about Michelle Williams to be over-the-top.

Fosse/Verdon, a story about artists from fifty years ago, reflects modern times. We shouldn’t like Bob Fosse because he was unfaithful and selfish. And as depicted, Fosse didn’t life his own life either, in part, because he was unfaithful and selfish. We should like or at least admire Gwen Verdon because she dealt with ageism and infidelity and bravely fought through it all while smiling.

I wanted razzle dazzle and got an average study of two very dynamic individuals: one subdued by contemporary mores and the other showcased in song, dance, and sympathy. Tea, anyone?

Mister Matt said:

Yup. Well...for some, but not all (loved reading BrodyFosse123's reaction to the series). Just wait until the Zellweger Judy Garland film comes out. No matter how good it is or she is in it, it'sgoing to get ugly around here."



I also want to say how much I enjoyed reading BrodyFosse123’s comments on this thread. I also loved the pictures. I’ve always been a big fan of Fosse’s work, but now I feel I know a little more about the man. Thank you, BrodyFosse!