First musical not to have an overture — Page 2

Pippin and Hair didn't have overtures. They came along before A Chorus Line.

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Updated On: 7/5/07 at 12:49 AM

Marvin Hamlisch wrote the CHORUS LINE overture himself. He gladly admits that it was horrible. You can see a clip of him playing it on you tube. He says something like "You'll see why it was cut."

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Well, since no one has mentioned one of the most famous overtureless shows, Hello, Dolly! The original production had no overture - just the famous four-bar intro to Call On Dolly. An overture was added for the first revival, but there wasn't one during the entire original run of the show at the St. James.

Company has a very very brief overture, it's accompanied by the creepy "Bobby" chant. You can hear it clearly on the OBC and 1995 Roundabout cast recordings.

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Mikem asked

"I'm curious -- can anyone think of some musicals that have long stretches at the beginning before any music is heard at all? I'm hard pressed to think of one. "

Lady in the Dark

"Usually, the Overture is the work of the orchestrator, not the composer. The composer might have a hand in the routine or layout, but very few composers actually did the actual work. "

The Overture can really be the work of almost anyone. Yes, the orchestrator often does it but composers have been known to do them as well. Sondheim comes to mind and also Hamlisch. I don't know about They're Playing Our Song, but I'm pretty sure he wrote Chorus Line's based on the article written about the matter and the fact that he conducts it at concerts.

And yes, I love the entr'acte to "They're Playing Our Song" as well and thus anticipated the Overture on the London Cast Recording... I was disappointed.

Well Husk, let's compare.

Your message:
"A Chorus Line" has an overture, Bennet decided to not use it, and therefore it's not in the show, in any format. Back when the revival's recording came out there was an article in the NY Times about the loss of the overture, and while "A Chorus Line" is usually credited as the first, I want to say there were 3 or 4 shows prior that did not have one. Does "Company" have one??"

My message:
"I read that article. It was ridiculous. It obviously gave no mind to the purpose of an overture as anything other than 3 minutes of music at the beginning of a show. Anyone who has seen A Chorus Line would know that an overture would feel completely out of place there.

Anyone who's heard the Chorus Line overture also know how poor it is. Hamlisch has never been a good overture writer. The "They're Playing Our Song" Overture is terrible as is "Smile"s."

Outlines--
Yours:
--Chorus Line had an overture Bennett chose not to use
--An article published around the time of the revival talks about it
--ACL is credited as the first overtureless show overlooking several before it
--Does Company have an overture?

Mine:
--That article seemed to miss the artistic purpose of an overture in musical theatre
--An overture in Chorus Line would have been bizarre
--It's also just not a good overture
--Neither are the overtures to other Hamlisch scores


Seem pretty different to me, but thanks for unnecessarily being a jerk!

Recently in Washington, DC at the They're Playing Our Song Again! concert at the Kennedy Center, Marvin Hamlish spoke of A Chorus Line not having an overture and how it was not right to have one. He also spoke of how he loves loves loves overtures as they set the tone, make one more excited for a show and get everyone ready (I am paraprasing here...). He then said that if he had an overture for A Chorus Line, this is how it would have been...and then proceeded us to do a nice 5 Minute "overture" of A Chorus Line with the symphony.


And I have to totally disagree with the person about They're Playing Our Song... I enjoy the Overture/Entre Act very very much.

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I too love Overtures.

Wicked does not have an overture.

Carousel didn't originally, although the waltz could count. the Revivals sometimes did.

I have been writing a show, and I write and will write my own overtures and entr'actes. It's a slightly lazy sign if a composer can't be bothered to do at least that. I do the orchestrations too.

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There's Richard Norton's 3-Volune Chronology of American Musical Theatre which lists credits, casts and scores, to the extent possible, for Amerucan musicals from 1750 up through 2001, which I own.

The original production of HELLO, DOLLY! (1964) didn't have an overture. Gower Champion hated them because audiences tended to talk through them. (They still do) It wasn't until the Pearl Bailey recording that Jerry Herman added an overture--for the recording only. When the show was revived in 1976 Herman put an overture in place because he always felt the show should have one.

You'll recall that when Champion took over the staging of IRENE, there already was an overture but he added stage business while the music was being played.

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I know its not the FIRST musical not to, but if I remember correctly Into the Woods has no overture or entr'acte... it just starts with "Once.."

Just wondering...