Hamilton Cancellation Line- Page 14
Hamilton Cancellation Line
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#325Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/21/16 at 6:25pm
I don t see the problem. Really. If some one want to pay someone to save their place, so what? Sorry if someone can afford to spend more...but they likely have a job and thats why they can't sit on line all day.
And even if it's like scalping (which it's not), so scalping isn't illegal in NY.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/31/69
#326Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/22/16 at 1:04am
I’ll put in (what I hope is) my final piece: Not to sound naive here, but the line is supposed to represent the order in which people “deserve” cancellation tickets at the price they're offered. I put “deserve” in quotes because no one really has a right to get a ticket but it seems a little strange that someone can be paid to stand in line and then be replaced. Like logically in my head it doesn’t make sense. Why can this imaginary “spot” be rented until the buyer shows up? I realize that it appears that my head is the only one that it doesn’t make sense in, but still, the only reason that line sitting is a thing is because the producers/theater allow and recognize the person who replaces the line sitter as the holder of that place in line. The theater doesn’t have to do that. It chooses to. I think it should choose not to. There’s no rational reason why the person who paid someone to sit in line for 6 hours deserves that spot in line. I say that not as an embittered person who was once screwed over by line sitters but as an impartial observer. For whatever reason (I propose apathy), the theater/Hamilton has chosen to take a laissez-faire approach to it. It’s their right but as a meaningless impartial observer, I don’t think it’s the right decision.
As far as whether it’s scalping or not, ultimately it’s irrelevant and there’s definitely a gray area but to me, it is. If the box office offered a ticket for sale before the line sitter was replaced and sold it to the sitter who then flipped it for a nice profit to compensate him for waiting, well that’s clearly scalping (any scalper could argue that his profit, however immense, is to compensate for the effort, however minor, to get the ticket). So let’s say in many cases the sitter gets replaced before the natural conclusion of the sitter buying and scalping the ticket is reached. Well so what? It’s the same overall idea. There’s nothing illegal about it (assuming the exchange is a sufficient number of feet away from the theater) but that’s not relevant either in that no one is proposing anyone be arrested. Hamilton has made efforts to make sure that lottery tickets aren’t sold at higher than face value prices. I personally think they should do the same for cancellation line tickets. If they choose not to, then why not just forget the line and auction off the tickets to the highest bidder? At least then the most deserving party is getting the money.
#327Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/22/16 at 1:25am
But the sitter isn't flipping the ticket for profit. He's not even paying for the ticket, you are and you're paying the $177. Like I said, sitting is done for many things so to expect the RR to ban it is unrealistic. If you think it's not cool then don't do it but no one is doing anything wrong. You're trying to put a moral code on who deserves what. So let's say they ban line sitters, then what if assholes fill the line? Are they deserving? What about people working all day and can't stand there but trust fund kids can, does that ensure the right person gets the ticket since you don't want them to get sitters? It's a whole can of worms. I get what you're saying but it's not as easy as no line sitters =fairness. If anything, it makes it more unfair to working and limited mobility people.
vdirects
Stand-by Joined: 2/13/16
#328Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/22/16 at 2:18am
@Spidernight
YES! Sorry to RANT , but this is exactly my point regarding the line sitters!! Here are the two issues with line sitters:
First, at the end of the day, line-sitting is no different than scalping. In both instances you have third parties taking advantage of Hamilton's popularity to make a personal profit. They're just using tricky semantics and different words to describe the same thing. One calls it a "markup" the other a "sitting fee." But at the end of the day, no matter what you call it, a person who paid $200 in a "markup fee" and a person paying $200 in line-sitting fees are still paying $377 for a $177 ticket and the third party is still walking away with a $200 profit. In fact, if anything, line sitting fees are worse because you still lose money even if you don't get the ticket.
Second, both practices involve screwing over the Average Joes doing things the "right" way. That is, people who stand in line for themselves looking to pay the fair, affordable price. Line sitting gives certain people the opportunity to use their financial privilege to trump the "less fortunate," if you will. They are essentially using money to cheat the system, while stepping on and impairing the rest of the paupers who didn't, or couldn't, hire their own whipping boys.
People will try to say sitting helps those who cannot stand on their own (people with disabilities, elderly, etc.), but this argument is weak and plays you for dumb. A) Line-sitters are clearly NOT a public service aimed at helping such people. They will take whoever is willing to pay as a client. I'd love to see the demographics of their clientele. Bet few fit this segment. B) In fact, the 3 or 4 times I've personally gotten a chance to see the clients who hired the line-standers, they were EACH young, healthy MEN who look like the kinds of guys you would see on Wall Street (others in the forum can attest). C) Despite that, let's say EVERY customer were an elderly woman with a cane, that doesn't change the fact that the selling point for line sitters is NOT that they will stand in your place (because they are so sweet and want women and children and elderly to see the show, too!), but that they are willing to do so at a ridiculously early time to ensure you get a ticket. This only screws over those who stand in the line at normal hours because it isn't their jobs to wake up at 1 or 2 a.m. to stand in line.
What's going to end up happening will be a "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" culture in which people will either try to beat the line sitters in line and push the start time up until people are lining up at midnight or even the night before (just wait until the summer), or everyone starts trying to hire line-sitters, thus encouraging this second market that uses the Richard Rodgers fairly priced tickets as a commodity they will use to fill their own pockets.
Updated On: 2/22/16 at 02:18 AM
#329Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/22/16 at 2:38am
Your TL;DR was too long and I didn't read it.
They/them.
"Get up the nerve to be all you deserve to be."
thinkoflaura
Chorus Member Joined: 2/9/16
#330Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/22/16 at 3:02am
vdirects - you had me considering your point until: "Meanwhile people doing it the right way are getting their fair chance to see the show diminished by these greedy people and their big spender clients."
I'm baffled by your assumption that you know -- and have the right to judge -- every person who decides for WHATEVER REASON to use a line-sitter. Should they judge you for NOT using one? I mean, should line sitter users wonder what's wrong with your life choices that you can't afford an extra $100 to up your chances of seeing a show?
How about if someone said, "vdirects, I will pay for you to use a line-sitter!" Would you take them up on it?
Updated On: 2/22/16 at 03:02 AM
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#331Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/22/16 at 5:34am
Nope, still not scalping.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#332Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/22/16 at 9:05am
I'm not crazy about the line sitters either, but it seems kind of silly to get upset about that level of "scalping" when Hamilton allows people to "resell" right on Ticketmaster. Actual scalpers have bought up dozens if not hundreds of tickets to every single performance of this show, have marked them up by a minimum of 100% and are selling them right on Ham's own ticket selling site. If I'm going to get upset about something, it's going to be that, not some dudes charging a hundred bucks or so to sit on a line for you.
Updated On: 2/22/16 at 09:05 AM#333Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/22/16 at 9:05am
@vd- you're so annoying. #1- you've already been to the show with premium seats iirc so your average Joe status is moot. #2- the idea of fairness is ridiculous, it doesn't apply for most things in life but should for Hamilton? So you go ahead and write your manifestos to the RR, you'll be banned soon enough, in the meantime, I'm hiring 10 sitters per day just to keep you out.
ETA- the ticket you were trying to sell was it premium for a loss? If not, you were technically "scalping" so you have no leg to stand on.
Updated On: 2/22/16 at 09:05 AM#334Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/22/16 at 11:23am
I was thinking (and I could be wrong) but vd selling a ticket 1/2 before show time does line up with getting 2 tickets from the cancellation line and trying to flip. If that's the case, aren't you essentially a scalper and/or line sitter who took 2 tickets when you only needed one in order to get in free and/or get something for your time? Furthermore, if you were truly magnanimous and concerned about the average Joe, your stance would be "I've already gone so I shouldn't take up a spot and prevent a chance to someone who hasn't gone."
thinkoflaura
Chorus Member Joined: 2/9/16
#335Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/22/16 at 11:33am
So... what do you all bring to sit on when you're in line all day? We'll be flying in so trying to think of a creative alternative to a chair. Let's discuss!!! :)
aymr
Swing Joined: 2/2/16
#336Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/22/16 at 11:40am
I brought a large insulated tote bag from Sam's club. Not nearly as comfortable as a chair, but much more packable. I also brought the newspaper from my hotel room, because I'd seen people recommend that as well. My goal was to keep anything touching the pavement from soaking up too much of the chill, and also from getting too dirty.
#337Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/22/16 at 12:46pm
Piece of cardboard helped when it was snowing. It forms as an insulation between the ground and your feet (also something I learned from seeing homeless people always separating themselves from the pavement by a piece of cardboard. 
Personally, I think one of the reasons people don't mind using line sitters is because the cancellation tix tend to be great seats (from my experience it was either row F or row J.) If cancellation tix were rear mezz or somewhere there, I have a feeling the people who can afford to buy stubhub tix or Ticketmaster resale tix would simply buy center orch seats rather than use a line sitter.
Quick question though --- how can you tell if someone is a line sitter or not?!? From the times I've lined up, I couldn't tell at all.
One thing I applaud Richard Rodgers theatre doing is limiting the number of tickets one can buy from cancellation line. Back last fall, there was no limit and it always sucked when people in front of you would buy 3-4 tix!
#338Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/22/16 at 12:54pm
thinkoflaura said: "So... what do you all bring to sit on when you're in line all day? We'll be flying in so trying to think of a creative alternative to a chair. Let's discuss!!! :)
"
I have a stadium cushion I bought al Walmart for like $4 it's easy to throw in a back pack light and keeps you off the ground!
"I'd rater be nine peoples favorite thing, than a hundred peoples ninth favorite thing"
Patty3
Featured Actor Joined: 2/24/07
#339Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/22/16 at 1:33pm
Saturday morning we got in line right at 3:30, we were joined by the next person at 3:45 and by 4:30 there were 5 people in line. By the time the box office opened at 10 am there were 30 people in line. At about 10:30 they came out with 1 ticket for the Sunday show we passed because we were leaving Sunday morning but someone about half way through the line bought it. At 12:30 they came out with the first two tickets for the 2 pm show so we bought those. There were three of us total so we were waiting for one more ticket. At about 1:20 they came out with the next set of two which we took 1 then the person behind us took the other! In total about 7-8 tickets were given out for the 2 pm mostly within the last 30 minutes before the show started.
We were the ones who bought the ticket for Sunday - my nephew was visiting from out of town and wanted to see the show. I saw it back in Sept and have tickets for next November so let him have the ticket. I was glad it worked out because we were 12th in line and probably would have been shut out of any other cancellation tickets for Saturday. We also got to see another show that day so it worked out well for us. I heard a little history about the line sitters - it goes back to the beginnings of SNL and the standby line in the 70s.
I used a small canvas stool which folded up and fit in a tote bag. I stood a lot but it was nice to have the option to sit. We were only there for 4 hours but I think I would like to have something more sturdy if the wait was longer. I knew the line would be bad since it was right after the Grammys and the weather was mild. I honestly don't have anything against the line sitters - I am more annoyed with the people who buy up tickets on TM solely with the intentions of reselling them for 5-6 times face value.
thinkoflaura
Chorus Member Joined: 2/9/16
#340Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/22/16 at 3:13pm
Baiseur82 said: "thinkoflaura said: "So... what do you all bring to sit on when you're in line all day? We'll be flying in so trying to think of a creative alternative to a chair. Let's discuss!!! :)
"
I have a stadium cushion I bought al Walmart for like $4 it's easy to throw in a back pack light and keeps you off the ground!
"
ooh -- good call!!!!
yanks02
Chorus Member Joined: 8/25/15
#341Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/22/16 at 10:27pm
I used a line sitter (Same Old Line Dudes who were awesome!) because I was on a red eye flight from San Francisco to NY that didn't land until 7 am. I don't feel at all bad about paying someone to hold my spot in line from 6 AM until I could get there from the airport at 10 AM, otherwise I would have never been able to see the show. I would pay to see the Richard Rodgers box office worker's face when they receive your rambling manifesto though!
Also, thinkoflaura , I have a crazy creek chair that I use for days out at the park. It was perfect because it just rolls up in my backpack and I checked my backpack in the theatre.
the1liamg
Chorus Member Joined: 10/29/06
#342Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/23/16 at 4:58am
Interesting
Updated On: 2/23/16 at 04:58 AM
#343Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/23/16 at 8:21am
vdirects said: "First, at the end of the day, line-sitting is no different than scalping. In both instances you have third parties taking advantage of Hamilton's popularity to make a personal profit. They're just using tricky semantics and different words to describe the same thing."
This makes zero sense. For line sitting, the person buying the ticket knows exactly what they have to do to get the ticket, as far as time investment, and they are able to go there, sit around, and get the ticket on their own. They merely decide that their time is worth more than that, so they will pay someone else to do it. So, in one case, you have someone who can get the ticket cheaper (by sitting outside the theater longer) and deciding on their own to pay more to not do that. And on the other hand, the buyer is completely at the mercy of others setting a price with no choice on their part.
vdirects
Stand-by Joined: 2/13/16
#344Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/23/16 at 10:58am
" ...at the end of the day, no matter what you call it, a person who paid $200 in a "markup fee" and a person paying $200 in line-sitting fees are still paying $377 for a $177 ticket and the third party is still walking away with a $200 profit. In fact, if anything, line sitting fees are worse because you still lose money even if you don't get the ticket."
Updated On: 2/23/16 at 10:58 AM
sundaymourning6am
Chorus Member Joined: 2/24/16
#345Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/24/16 at 1:16pm
Question folks: Do people ever try to re-sell fake tickets on Ticketmaster.com?
#346Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/24/16 at 1:20pm
sundaymourning6am said: "Question folks: Do people ever try to re-sell fake tickets on Ticketmaster.com?
"
No, it's pretty impossible bc the tickets are in your TM account and once sold, your ticket is voided and buyer receives a new bar code
maybird84
Swing Joined: 1/19/16
#347Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/24/16 at 1:24pm
Haven't seen many updates on recent cancellation line experiences! Has it calmed down at all?
Relevance81491
Broadway Star Joined: 2/11/16
#348Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/24/16 at 2:59pm
Yes, it was totally deserted today. I'm sure the buzz was killed by the Grammy performance and win. Now no one wants to see it and they are desperate to get rid of tickets
vdirects
Stand-by Joined: 2/13/16
#349Hamilton Cancellation Line
Posted: 2/24/16 at 3:49pm
A lot of people flock to the cancellation line on the weekend. That's when the anecdotes come in. But, yes, it's silly to think it will ever "calm down." Perhaps when the contracts are up and the next round of cast members join, but even then it might still be tough to get tickets.
Updated On: 2/24/16 at 03:49 PMVideos