Hamilton Cancellation Line — Page 14

I’ll put in (what I hope is) my final piece: Not to sound naive here, but the line is supposed to represent the order in which people “deserve” cancellation tickets at the price they're offered. I put “deserve” in quotes because no one really has a right to get a ticket but it seems a little strange that someone can be paid to stand in line and then be replaced. Like logically in my head it doesn’t make sense. Why can this imaginary “spot” be rented until the buyer shows up? I realize that it appears that my head is the only one that it doesn’t make sense in, but still, the only reason that line sitting is a thing is because the producers/theater allow and recognize the person who replaces the line sitter as the holder of that place in line. The theater doesn’t have to do that. It chooses to. I think it should choose not to. There’s no rational reason why the person who paid someone to sit in line for 6 hours deserves that spot in line. I say that not as an embittered person who was once screwed over by line sitters but as an impartial observer. For whatever reason (I propose apathy), the theater/Hamilton has chosen to take a laissez-faire approach to it. It’s their right but as a meaningless impartial observer, I don’t think it’s the right decision.

As far as whether it’s scalping or not, ultimately it’s irrelevant and there’s definitely a gray area but to me, it is. If the box office offered a ticket for sale before the line sitter was replaced and sold it to the sitter who then flipped it for a nice profit to compensate him for waiting, well that’s clearly scalping (any scalper could argue that his profit, however immense, is to compensate for the effort, however minor, to get the ticket). So let’s say in many cases the sitter gets replaced before the natural conclusion of the sitter buying and scalping the ticket is reached. Well so what? It’s the same overall idea. There’s nothing illegal about it (assuming the exchange is a sufficient number of feet away from the theater) but that’s not relevant either in that no one is proposing anyone be arrested. Hamilton has made efforts to make sure that lottery tickets aren’t sold at higher than face value prices. I personally think they should do the same for cancellation line tickets. If they choose not to, then why not just forget the line and auction off the tickets to the highest bidder? At least then the most deserving party is getting the money.

@Spidernight

YES! Sorry to RANT , but this is exactly my point regarding the line sitters!! Here are the two issues with line sitters:

First, at the end of the day, line-sitting is no different than scalping. In both instances you have third parties taking advantage of Hamilton's popularity to make a personal profit. They're just using tricky semantics and different words to describe the same thing. One calls it a "markup" the other a "sitting fee." But at the end of the day, no matter what you call it, a person who paid $200 in a "markup fee" and a person paying $200 in line-sitting fees are still paying $377 for a $177 ticket and the third party is still walking away with a $200 profit. In fact, if anything, line sitting fees are worse because you still lose money even if you don't get the ticket.

Second, both practices involve screwing over the Average Joes doing things the "right" way. That is, people who stand in line for themselves looking to pay the fair, affordable price. Line sitting gives certain people the opportunity to use their financial privilege to trump the "less fortunate," if you will. They are essentially using money to cheat the system, while stepping on and impairing the rest of the paupers who didn't, or couldn't, hire their own whipping boys.

People will try to say sitting helps those who cannot stand on their own (people with disabilities, elderly, etc.), but this argument is weak and plays you for dumb. A) Line-sitters are clearly NOT a public service aimed at helping such people. They will take whoever is willing to pay as a client. I'd love to see the demographics of their clientele. Bet few fit this segment. B) In fact, the 3 or 4 times I've personally gotten a chance to see the clients who hired the line-standers, they were EACH young, healthy MEN who look like the kinds of guys you would see on Wall Street (others in the forum can attest). C) Despite that, let's say EVERY customer were an elderly woman with a cane, that doesn't change the fact that the selling point for line sitters is NOT that they will stand in your place (because they are so sweet and want women and children and elderly to see the show, too!), but that they are willing to do so at a ridiculously early time to ensure you get a ticket. This only screws over those who stand in the line at normal hours because it isn't their jobs to wake up at 1 or 2 a.m. to stand in line.

What's going to end up happening will be a "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" culture in which people will either try to beat the line sitters in line and push the start time up until people are lining up at midnight or even the night before (just wait until the summer), or everyone starts trying to hire line-sitters, thus encouraging this second market that uses the Richard Rodgers fairly priced tickets as a commodity they will use to fill their own pockets.

Updated On: 2/22/16 at 02:18 AM

vdirects - you had me considering your point until: "Meanwhile people doing it the right way are getting their fair chance to see the show diminished by these greedy people and their big spender clients."

I'm baffled by your assumption that you know -- and have the right to judge -- every person who decides for WHATEVER REASON to use a line-sitter. Should they judge you for NOT using one? I mean, should line sitter users wonder what's wrong with your life choices that you can't afford an extra $100 to up your chances of seeing a show?

How about if someone said, "vdirects, I will pay for you to use a line-sitter!" Would you take them up on it?

Updated On: 2/22/16 at 03:02 AM

I'm not crazy about the line sitters either, but it seems kind of silly to get upset about that level of "scalping" when Hamilton allows people to "resell" right on Ticketmaster. Actual scalpers have bought up dozens if not hundreds of tickets to every single performance of this show, have marked them up by a minimum of 100% and are selling them right on Ham's own ticket selling site. If I'm going to get upset about something, it's going to be that, not some dudes charging a hundred bucks or so to sit on a line for you.

Updated On: 2/22/16 at 09:05 AM

I was thinking (and I could be wrong) but vd selling a ticket 1/2 before show time does line up with getting 2 tickets from the cancellation line and trying to flip. If that's the case, aren't you essentially a scalper and/or line sitter who took 2 tickets when you only needed one in order to get in free and/or get something for your time? Furthermore, if you were truly magnanimous and concerned about the average Joe, your stance would be "I've already gone so I shouldn't take up a spot and prevent a chance to someone who hasn't gone."

I brought a large insulated tote bag from Sam's club. Not nearly as comfortable as a chair, but much more packable. I also brought the newspaper from my hotel room, because I'd seen people recommend that as well. My goal was to keep anything touching the pavement from soaking up too much of the chill, and also from getting too dirty.

thinkoflaura said: "So... what do you all bring to sit on when you're in line all day? We'll be flying in so trying to think of a creative alternative to a chair. Let's discuss!!! :)

"

I have a stadium cushion I bought al Walmart for like $4 it's easy to throw in a back pack light and keeps you off the ground!

Baiseur82 said: "thinkoflaura said: "So... what do you all bring to sit on when you're in line all day? We'll be flying in so trying to think of a creative alternative to a chair. Let's discuss!!! :)

"

I have a stadium cushion I bought al Walmart for like $4 it's easy to throw in a back pack light and keeps you off the ground!

"

ooh -- good call!!!!

Interesting

Updated On: 2/23/16 at 04:58 AM

" ...at the end of the day, no matter what you call it, a person who paid $200 in a "markup fee" and a person paying $200 in line-sitting fees are still paying $377 for a $177 ticket and the third party is still walking away with a $200 profit. In fact, if anything, line sitting fees are worse because you still lose money even if you don't get the ticket."

Updated On: 2/23/16 at 10:58 AM

sundaymourning6am said: "Question folks: Do people ever try to re-sell fake tickets on Ticketmaster.com?

"

No, it's pretty impossible bc the tickets are in your TM account and once sold, your ticket is voided and buyer receives a new bar code

Yes, it was totally deserted today. I'm sure the buzz was killed by the Grammy performance and win. Now no one wants to see it and they are desperate to get rid of tickets

The tickets are sold way past the time cast changes will be known/announced, so even if the interest dips after some of the OBC leave, the amount of people who still never saw the show will take a while to dwindle down to the point where it will be very noticeable. Unless you're really lucky, whether there are 8,000 or 2,000 people entering the lottery, or having to sit in line from 3 a.m. or 6 a.m., it will still be quite some time before it's an easy ticket.

Updated On: 2/24/16 at 03:52 PM