Hello, Dolly 2017: the revival that got away?

[gypsy101]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 6:03pm

Bette Midler starring in Hello, Dolly! was one of the biggest revivals of the century so far. so why did they let it end? after Bernadette, why did rumors of stars like Dolly Parton and Queen Latifah not come to fruition? this revival could have been a years-long spectacle like the original with our great divas of today getting a chance at the role. after Bernadette, Dolly should have been played by many stars like Patti LuPone, Kristin Chenoweth, Idina Menzel, Audra McDonald, Sutton Foster, Kelli OHara, hell maybe even Chita could have gotten in on the action. why didnt they attempt this? or did they try and it just didnt come through? what happened?!

[ACL2006]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 6:27pm

There were reports of another name coming in after Peters but it fell through, so Rudin got Midler to return and closed it with her. Not sure just a Broadway name would have been enough it keep it open. Peters' run was frequently available at 50% off on TKTS.

[jvoom]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 6:38pm

I really, really can't see Idina, Kelli or Sutton as Dolly ...

Apparently Jerry Herman gave his blessing to the revival on the agreement he had a say in who played Dolly and allegedly vetoed Reba, Dolly and Patti LaBelle. I think the closest they got to another name was Queen Latifah but for whatever reason it fell through

I personally would have loved to have seen Lainie Kazan though I doubt she was one of the "names" Updated On: 12/10/19 at 06:38 PM

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 6:42pm

I think it was The Producers effect. They started too big and couldn’t achieve the same success with anyone after Midler. I wonder how long it would’ve lasted had Bernadette or Donna had started with the production and then they went on with bigger names.

[supersam1026]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 6:59pm

I think Rudin also wanted the Shubert for TKAM. And as the theme of the week goes: what Rudin wants, Rudin gets.
Do I think this is the SOLE reason that Dolly closed? No. Do I think it played a factor in Rudin’s mind? Yup!

[SeanMartin2]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 8:08pm

Hang on a sec, let me put on my asbestos overalls.

Okay. Now.

Much as I love Midler (and you're talking to someone who indeed saw her at the Continental Baths with Barry Manilow), she just wasnt, I dont know, right somehow. It was a Bette Midler concert with a little play attached, and she made sure we knew it. Yep, it sold buckets of tickets because everyone wanted to see her, but her performance was low-key. Midler has never been one to shy away from her age when it comes to performance, but even this seemed too demanding for her.

It would have been interesting to see other "mature" performers take on the role, like Dolly Parton, but part of me thinks that this show — like other revivals of what should have been guaranteed bets — have simply aged themselves out of Broadway. It's not something that can take a conceptual rewrite to make it work now, like Oklahoma or Carousel or My Fair Lady. To be blunt, it's a tired Broadway format long past its shelf life.

And I say this as one who saw the show at Dallas Summer Musicals with Mary Martin way back when. It was my first "real" Broadway experience, and I loved it. But after seeing Midler... it felt old and creaky, with a production design that did it no favours by underscoring that it's basically just a wing-and-drop vaudeville and little more.

Sorry, folks. It's time to let it go.

[smidge]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 9:04pm

Besides Chicago, what recent revivals have sustained really long runs? Most are probably best viewed as special events with a short shelf life.

[JBC3]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 9:16pm

Pretty sure this question was debated ad nauseum in one of the original threads about the show.

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 9:27pm

supersam1026 said: "I think Rudin also wanted the Shubert for TKAM. And as the theme of the week goes: what Rudin wants, Rudin gets.
Do I think this is the SOLE reason that Dolly closed? No. Do I think it played a factor in Rudin’s mind? Yup!"

I agree with you.  I also think there was a 'the shine is gone ... its days as a behemoth hit are probably over, so  I am no  longer interested in it' dimension.  In the day, David Merrick would've never said die so soon.  He would have said 'what can I do to get this show major new publicity for free, and how can I interest people in needing to see it again'.  

Also, despite being a huge hit with Bette, I knew a number of people who did not want to see it because they thought it was going to be too old-fashioned and stodgy vs. the great production that it was.  When you get down to it, it really had only one big hit song.  Think of other great musicals from that time and before, and they had so many hit songs that people would be recall.

 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 9:27pm

supersam1026 said: "I think Rudin also wanted the Shubert for TKAM. And as the theme of the week goes: what Rudin wants, Rudin gets.
Do I think this is the SOLE reason that Dolly closed? No. Do I think it played a factor in Rudin’s mind? Yup!"

I agree with you.  I also think there was a 'the shine is gone ... its days as a behemoth hit are probably over, so  I am no  longer interested in it' dimension.  In the day, David Merrick would've never said die so soon.  He would have said 'what can I do to get this show major new publicity for free, and how can I interest people in needing to see it again'.  

Also, despite being a huge hit with Bette, I knew a number of people who did not want to see it because they thought it was going to be too old-fashioned and stodgy vs. the great production that it was.  When you get down to it, it really had only one big hit song.  Think of other great musicals from that time and before, and they had so many hit songs that people would be recall.

 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 9:27pm

supersam1026 said: "I think Rudin also wanted the Shubert for TKAM. And as the theme of the week goes: what Rudin wants, Rudin gets.
Do I think this is the SOLE reason that Dolly closed? No. Do I think it played a factor in Rudin’s mind? Yup!"

I agree with you.  I also think there was a 'the shine is gone ... its days as a behemoth hit are probably over, so  I am no  longer interested in it' dimension.  In the day, David Merrick would've never said die so soon.  He would have said 'what can I do to get this show major new publicity for free, and how can I interest people in needing to see it again'.  

Also, despite being a huge hit with Bette, I knew a number of people who did not want to see it because they thought it was going to be too old-fashioned and stodgy vs. the great production that it was.  When you get down to it, it really had only one big hit song.  Think of other great musicals from that time and before, and they had so many hit songs that people would be recall.

 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/10/19 at 9:27pm

supersam1026 said: "I think Rudin also wanted the Shubert for TKAM. And as the theme of the week goes: what Rudin wants, Rudin gets.
Do I think this is the SOLE reason that Dolly closed? No. Do I think it played a factor in Rudin’s mind? Yup!"

I agree with you.  I also think there was a 'the shine is gone ... its days as a behemoth hit are probably over, so  I am no  longer interested in it' dimension.  In the day, David Merrick would've never said die so soon.  He would have said 'what can I do to get this show major new publicity for free, and how can I interest people in needing to see it again'.  

Also, despite being a huge hit with Bette, I knew a number of people who did not want to see it because they thought it was going to be too old-fashioned and stodgy vs. the great production that it was.  When you get down to it, it really had only one big hit song.  Think of other great musicals from that time and before, and they had so many hit songs that people would be recall.

 

[Wick3]

Posted: 12/11/19 at 9:30am

gypsy101 said: "Bette Midler starring in Hello, Dolly! was one of the biggest revivals of the century so far. so why did they let it end? after Bernadette, why did rumors of stars like Dolly Parton and Queen Latifah not come to fruition? this revival could have been a years-long spectacle like the original with our great divas of today getting a chance at the role. after Bernadette, Dolly should have been played by many stars like Patti LuPone, Kristin Chenoweth, Idina Menzel, Audra McDonald, Sutton Foster, Kelli OHara, hell maybe even Chita could have gotten in on the action. why didnt they attempt this? or did they try and it just didnt come through? what happened?!"

I know how you feel. Performing 7-8 performances a week as a leading lady on Broadway is not easy. I recall reading an interview where Donna Murphy appreciated the arrangement of performing 1-2 shows a week as it has a better work-life balance and she gets to do something she loves and still get a paycheck. 

I'd think the investors would have wanted a longer run. From this article, https://www.forbes.com/sites/leeseymour/2018/08/27/hello-dolly-closes-with-broken-records-trickling-roi/#5d682c282dd0 investors were unhappy with how Rudin kept spending money on advertising when the show was pretty much sold out during Bette's run. Also, apparently Hello Dolly investors were required to also invest money in riskier plays like Glass Menagerie and Doll's House part 2. Not sure if I understood it correctly but from that article investors only made around 5% profit by closing weekend in Aug 2018, which I'd think was lower than expected.

Updated On: 12/11/19 at 09:30 AM

[Theatrefanboy1]

Posted: 12/11/19 at 9:47am

I would have loved to see a longer run. I was hoping to see Bernadette. And thought it could have had a couple years in it. It would have been sooo much fun to watch all these icons gave their own take on Dolly in such a wonderful show. I would have loved to see Dolly Parton, Reba, Kristin Chenoweth, Chita, Patti Lupone, Queen Latifah, Betty Buckley

With those alone it could have at least doubled its run. If they all took it for 4-5 months. It’s so sad to me that it closed up shop.

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Posted: 12/11/19 at 10:15am

As we all have said, it could have ran much longer with several names that would have made it worthwhile.

The timing of Dolly VS TKAM, while not exactly matched, is very coincidental. Dolly’s closing was announced end of April, the lawsuit over Mockingbird was settled in May. Dolly closed in June, and Mockingbird started previews in November.

I’m sure Rudin moved out Dolly for TKAM. Even though it was doing fine (and could have done better had they continued), Rudin could smell more dollars with the next show, so he closed up shop. Similar to what Disney did with Beauty and the Beast/The Little Mermaid, as well as Marry Poppins/Aladdin.

[joevitus]

Posted: 12/11/19 at 10:17am

Wick3 said: "I know how you feel. Performing 7-8 performances a week as a leading lady on Broadway is not easy. I recall reading an interview where Donna Murphy appreciated the arrangement of performing 1-2 shows a week as it has a better work-life balance and she gets to do something she loves and still get a paycheck.."

Pretty good example of how the days of the greats are over. Such a statement would have baffled Merman, Martin, Verdon, Rivera. 

[joevitus]

Posted: 12/11/19 at 10:20am

SeanMartin2 said: "Much as I love Midler (and you're talking to someone who indeed saw her at the Continental Baths with Barry Manilow), she just wasnt, I dont know, right somehow. It was a Bette Midler concert with a little play attached, and she made sure we knew it."

I feel like this has been true of her for decades. You have to go back to The Rose to find her committing to a role rather than forcing the role to conform to her. P.S. Waaaay envious of you seeing her at the Continental. 

[yankeefan7]

Posted: 12/11/19 at 10:38am

"I think it was The Producers effect. They started too big and couldn’t achieve the same success with anyone after Midler. I wonder how long it would’ve lasted had Bernadette or Donna had started with the production and then they went on with bigger names."

Exactly. They made it all about Bette Midler like the Producers was all about Lane/Broderick which tells people if you don't see it with these stars the show is not worth it. I think you make an excellent point in regards to somebody like Bernadette opening the run and then going on to bigger names to extend the run. This was a very high quality revival and I think it would have had buzz with Bernadette opening in the role.

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 12/11/19 at 4:54pm

Chicago- though a revival- deals with themes that are very relevant to our contemporary culture- especially celebrity, sensationalizing criminal activity, the power of the press-etc.- and with great music and lots of great choreography- it just seems to go on and on in its run- both here and in London. Dolly is a very old fashioned musical- not that there is anything wrong with that- but the characters- for the most part- are caricatures- not real people- and though there are themes in Dolly that are relatable- it is very broad and downright silly too much of the time. It's time came- and is gone. Bette as Dolly seemed to be a dream pairing- and it was good- though I did not love it because the show is so dated and old fashioned- but I was glad I saw it. I would have seen it with Dolly Parton- or Reba- to see them sing and dance this role- but the show itself- in my opinion- is too dated to succeed in this era.

[JSquared2]

Posted: 12/11/19 at 5:03pm

joevitus said: "Wick3 said: "I know how you feel. Performing 7-8 performances a week as a leading lady on Broadway is not easy. I recall reading an interview where Donna Murphy appreciated the arrangement of performing 1-2 shows a week as it has a better work-life balance and she gets to do something she loves and still get a paycheck.."

Pretty good example of how the days of the greats are over. Such a statement would have baffled Merman, Martin, Verdon,Rivera."

 

Mary Martin did 6 perfs a week on I DO I DO.  Verdon would simply cut entire songs and dances on days when she didn't feel like doing them.  The "good ole days" aren't always as great as people dream they were.

[FranklinDickson2018]

Posted: 12/11/19 at 5:46pm

JSquared2 said: "joevitus said: "Wick3 said: "I know how you feel. Performing 7-8 performances a week as a leading lady on Broadway is not easy. I recall reading an interview where Donna Murphy appreciated the arrangement of performing 1-2 shows a week as it has a better work-life balance and she gets to do something she loves and still get a paycheck.."

Pretty good example of how the days of the greats are over. Such a statement would have baffled Merman, Martin, Verdon,Rivera."



Mary Martin did 6 perfs a week onI DO I DO. Verdon would simply cut entire songs and dances on days when she didn't feel like doing them. The "good ole days" aren't always as great as people dream they were."

Sorry you are wrong.  those days were as great as people KNEW they were. Not dreaming.  I hate revisionist history.  First off --- Martin and Preston agreed upfront to 7 performances per week.  (They had a gentleman's agreement (Martin's words) to do Saturday matinees. )  After 6 months they had to stop.  Martin was 54 years old.  Had been starring on Broadway for 30 years.  Her prior shows (SOM, South Pacific, Peter Pan) she did 8 shows and DIDN'T MISS.   In fact she did 2 years of Sound of Music on Broadway and didn't miss.   But I Do I Do was a 2 character show.  And very taxing. Again in Martin's words "you had to have the strength of a boxer going 17 rounds."  Ethel Merman had the incredible reputation of not missing performances either.  The stories are legendary. How "good ole days" can you get?   But trust me, if Merman/Martin/Cook/Verdon/Drake/Rivera etc etc etc were starring today there wouldn't be the *[name your star] attendance thread that we get so often. Please don't rewrite Broadway history. There was a different work ethic back then. The stars were expected to show up and they did. 

[JSquared2]

Posted: 12/11/19 at 5:51pm

FranklinDickson2018 said: "JSquared2 said: "joevitus said: "Wick3 said: "I know how you feel. Performing 7-8 performances a week as a leading lady on Broadway is not easy. I recall reading an interview where Donna Murphy appreciated the arrangement of performing 1-2 shows a week as it has a better work-life balance and she gets to do something she loves and still get a paycheck.."

Pretty good example of how the days of the greats are over. Such a statement would have baffled Merman, Martin, Verdon,Rivera."



Mary Martin did 6 perfs a week onI DO I DO. Verdon would simply cut entire songs and dances on days when she didn't feel like doing them. The "good ole days" aren't always as great as people dream they were."

Sorry you are wrong. those dayswere as great as people KNEW they were. Not dreaming. I hate revisionist history.First off --- Martin and Preston agreed upfront to 7 performances per week. (They had a gentleman's agreement (Martin's words) to do Saturday matinees. ) After 6 months they had to stop. Martin was 54 years old. Had been starring on Broadway for 30 years. Her prior shows (SOM, South Pacific, Peter Pan) she did 8 shows and DIDN'T MISS. In fact she did 2 years of Sound of Music on Broadway and didn't miss. But I Do I Do was a 2 character show. And very taxing. Again in Martin'swords "you had to have the strength of a boxer going 17 rounds."Ethel Merman had the incredible reputation of not missingperformances either. The stories are legendary. How "good ole days" can you get? But trust me, if Merman/Martin/Cook/Verdon/Drake/Riveraetc etc etc were starringtoday there wouldn't be the *[name your star] attendance thread that we get so often. Please don't rewrite Broadway history. There was a different work ethic back then. The stars were expected to show up and they did."

 

You completely glossed over both of my examples -- but thanks for helping to prove my point!  Revisionist history is always the "best" history!

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 12/11/19 at 6:02pm

The show did eventually recoup but it had a huge weekly nut ($800,000/wk according to the Forbes article) so the actual payback to investors was not big. It didn't even recoup during Bette's original run even though it was sold out. To this day I don't know how the show cost $800,000/week to run. But in the end, it was making money but not as much money as they had hoped. 

[ColorTheHours048]

Posted: 12/11/19 at 6:17pm

I’m really curious if the folks who claim yesteryear’s performers who would scoff at today’s standards of having understudies go on with regularity and having alternates for particularly demanding roles are actually performers themselves? You find me a professional performer who thinks performing 8 shows in 6 days is healthy for any lengthy period of time with no breaks, and I’ll show you a sociopath.

[joevitus]

Posted: 12/11/19 at 6:59pm

ColorTheHours048 said: "I’m really curious if the folks who claim yesteryear’s performers who would scoff at today’s standards of having understudies go on with regularity and having alternates for particularly demanding roles are actually performers themselves? You find me a professional performer who thinks performing 8 shows in 6 days is healthy for any lengthy period of time with no breaks, and I’ll show you a sociopath."

Then every actor prior to the 2000's was a sociopath. Huh.