Is Ramin Returning To PHANTOM???? — Page 6

I'm not saying that I conflate the two, but most people do.

I wonder how this Italian production will ultimately come together. Will Love Never Dies be teased throughout? Will it go for something entirely new?

Penna2 said: ... Since LND has never been on Broadway, it's still a possibility. The film was awful, as was the tour. If ALW reworked the original London show, sticking with the love story element, I think people would go to see it. Again JMO.

Is it possible to stream the Ramin/Sierra version of LND?

I see lots of reasonably high-quality YouTubes for individual songs, so it must have been filmed....

Lot666 said: "No official, complete video recording of the London production has ever been made publicly available (nor even mentioned by RUG/ALW, to my knowledge). I wish there was a pro-shot recording available, because I much preferred the aesthetic of the London version, and Sierra Boggess' performance of the aria."



I've only gotten interested in LND since re-visiting Phantom during its last week on Broadway. And then, I guess, propelled by renewed nostalgia, I finally checked out the LND score and fell in love with the vocals from Ramin and Sierra. In some ways, I think these songs are betting suited to Ramin than the original Phantom songs (though I might be biased from 35 years of listening to Michael Crawford and thinking that everyone else sounds a bit off). I also like the LND staging that you can see in the pirated YouTubes from the London show. I can see how folks say there's some disconnect from the original. Still, I'm glad that these songs exist.

Even after being warned it wouldn't be as good, my huband and I decided to brave the filmed Australian version last night and ... wow, I thought there were some unfortunate choices made. Among them, what was with Ben Lewis's bug eyes during "Before the Performance"? Throughout the show, to me, he came across as a kind of hulking nitwit, not a genious inventor and musician. If the choice were between Raoul and this Phantom, I think I'd take Raoul.

Anyway, if someone saw only this, I can see how they might feel LND is akin to painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa.

I'd been kind of hoping that the closing of Phantom might mean a possibility for staging LND on Broadway. But seeing the Australian version reminded me to be careful what you wish for. I'd travel across continents to see Ramin and Sierra in LND (or anything), but I'd probably skip LND unless it featured them or other top-tier performers, though it's hard to imagine who that would be.

Updated On: 5/1/23 at 05:11 PM

It’s really a shame Love Never Dies was filmed but it wasn’t filmed with Ramin and Sierra. Overall I think the West End production was actually better than the Australian version with the only exception being “Beauty Underneath” which was a bit more exciting in the Australian production with the chasing lights and the moving mirrors creating the sense of exploration of the whole of Coney Island instead of the single location staging in the West End version. Other than that I prefer Bob Crowley’s scenery and costumes and the original prologue and placement of Till I Hear You Sing.

Wow, the anti-Australian theatre/performers sentiment here is something else.

The Australian production of LND featured a cast who, despite not having the global fan-girl army of the London leads, are world-class performers. Both the so-called "bug-eyed Ben" and Anna O'Byrne are highly trained actors who have chalked up impressive credits on Australian stages and in London's West End. How insulting for someone here to suggest that they're not "top-tier performers"!

Some might find it hard to believe, but the reality is that there is quality theatre and the highest calibre of theatre performers working outside of London and North America.

Updated On: 5/2/23 at 09:31 AM

A Theatre Fan 2023 said: "Wow, the anti-Australian theatre/performers sentiment here is something else.

The Australian production of LND featured a cast who, despite not having the global fan-girl army of the London leads, are world-class performers. Both the so-called "bug-eyed Ben" and Anna O'Byrne are highly trained actors who have chalked up impressive credits on Australian stages and in London's West End. How insulting for someone here to suggest that they're not "top-tier performers"!

Some might find it hard to believe, but the reality is that there is quality theatre and the highest calibre of theatre performers working outside of London and North America."

Not sure who you are referring to. Ben does have "bug eyes" in LND, sorry, he just does and Anna is cold and aloof and their coming together at the end doesn't make sense because there is no chemistry between them. When she did POTO on the West End, she was completely anti-Phantom and that acting choice seemed to carry over to LND. My first experience with LND as a show was a video clip of the final scene (I was new to Phantom entirely) and my response was "oh she dies."

Ramin and Sierra were much more connected in the London show - becoming Rierra to their fans and creating a lot of excitement about the show and their professional partnership. Their schedules did not permit them to do the film, which is a shame.

This says nothing about Ben's or Anna's overall talents, just that they were not the best choices for the film. I do agree, though, that I much prefer London show overall and adopting the blaring colors and storyline for the Australian version was a mistake - which is about the writers, producers and directors, not the leads.

Personally, I love Josh Piterman and Amy Manford. Ben was great with Kelly Mathieson in POTO, although I still find him a little stiff in his acting, but no one can challenge his voice - same with his brother. Anna did a Phantom concert with Ramin in So. Korea and was fine - I just find her too cold for my taste, but is not a comment about her training, she's just not my cup of tea.

A Theatre Fan 2023 said: "Wow, the anti-Australian theatre/performers sentiment here is something else.

The Australian production of LND featured a cast who, despite not having the global fan-girl army of the London leads, are world-class performers. Both the so-called "bug-eyed Ben" and Anna O'Byrne are highly trained actors who have chalked up impressive credits on Australian stages and in London's West End. How insulting for someone here to suggest that they're not "top-tier performers"!

Some might find it hard to believe, but the reality is that there is quality theatre and the highest calibre of theatre performers working outside of London and North America."

I'm sorry, Theatre Fan, I didn't mean to imply that talented people didn't work on the Australian LND. Lewis and O'Byrne are clearly powerful singers, and I'm sure that they've treated audiences to wonderful performances in many shows. I guess art is very personal, though, and these particular interpretations just didn't do it for me.

I'm sure that there were also talented folks working behind the scenes, but, in general, I didn't agree with many of the choices that were made. As one example, I'll echo what others have said and mention that opening the show with "Till I Hear You Sing Again" was disorienting and to me seemed like a huge mistake. IMO, a song like that should have some buildup. I also didn't think the show did much in the way of world-building. As just one example, in the London version, we get to see the Phantom's inventions: the lifelike Christine figure (played I believe by Sierra), the curious robot pushing the cart, the creature that plays the piano-like instrument, etc. I might be forgetting something, but in the Australian version, I don't recall seeing much of the Phantom's inventions or workspace. I was also a little confused during "The Beauty Underneath," when various creatures (a winged woman, a man with six arms, etc.), are each displayed within a narrow glass column. I'm guessing that these creatures weren't actually supposed to be imprisoned in those columns (at least, I hope not). Still, would someone who has been kept in a cage himself (the Phantom) really go for the aesthetic of displaying people crammed inside glass columns? It didn't ring true to me.

All that said, I don't think that every single thing in the show was bad. For example, I thought the retooled "Dear Old Friend" was deft and witty. I liked the way it started out with congenial meetings between each pair of characters, all of whom remain polite even as their moods sour, culiminating in that hilariously insincere toast.

To clarify my comments about how I long to see LND with "top-tier performers": That was a poor choice of words on my part. I think what I really meant was "performers who are guaranteed not to disappoint" -- which is of course not truly possible. That is, I've definitely had the experience of buying tickets to see some loved actor only to be disappointed when the performance or show didn't quite live up to expectations. I think POTO and LND are particularly tough because the singing is so demanding, and then on top of that, they need to be able to act, and we also expect great chemistry between the three leads.

Updated On: 5/15/23 at 07:59 PM

chernjam said: "When I saw clips of the London opening, the spooky/ghostly Coney Island coming to life with the Coney Island Waltz - it made me think what could've been."

That's the scene I missed most in the Australian production. As someone who saw the London production three times, I found it quite effective.

Videos: Ramin Karimloo and Amelia Milo, of the Upcoming Italian Production of Phantom of the Opera, Perform

Is it just me, or is this a disappointing performance of Music of the Night? He seems to be shouting, jumpy, and moving too fast.

I liked Jane Bergére's performance.

Penna2 said: "Seriously, not his best rendition. Could be the direction. The set up was kind of awkward. I suspect it will be different in the show when he's in character. I did find it a little fast, though."

To me, it seemed like he was nervous, which was odd because he's hardly new to this material.

Penna2 said: "Thanks for posting. I shall now go off to work with a smile on my face."

Happy to be of service.

imeldasturn said: "I mean, it's not like Karimloo always sings on key..."


Yeah, plus people like to forget that he tended to be shouty in the RAH concert. He’s never been a favorite Phantom of mine for that reason, even though I like him in other things.

Ramin Karimloo had a horrific problem with pitch back in his pre-Jean Valjean days. His singing improved tremendously when he started playing Jean Valjean, this was because he actually did work with a voice coach leading up to taking on the character due to the difficulty of the role. His ability to sing on key seemed to improve when his vocal technique became stronger once he received that coaching, and again the quality of his singing from before then vs. after is tremendous.

Also, fun fact, his vocals received a fair amount of editing on the official release of the Royal Albert Hall performance. For a majority of the live performance (I attended the livestream in cinemas and have the original unedited stream in my collection) Ramin was off key, his problem was singing sharp. It grated on me the entire time and I was insanely disappointed since that was what was being filmed for release.

Thankfully for the release they fixed that up. They didn't 'auto-tune' him in the sense that most people associate with that word, they more so seemingly manipulated his vocal track to the proper note. Thats why there are moments where Ramin's tone quality will randomly take on a slightly deeper quality, those are the moments when they had to manipulate his vocal track in this fashion.

Thats also not to mention they moments they had to overdub with re-recorded vocals, although these were mostly negative changes that greatly neutered his performance. The first unmasking has a completely re-recorded vocal line from "Damn you, you little prying..." thru to the final "damn you, curse you!"...and its not exactly well done either. In the live broadcast Ramin is SCREAMING out pretty much that entire section, they unfortunately made him come in and record a new vocal where he just 'sings' that section and it ruins it, and its pretty noticeable that the intensity of his actions don't match what you're hearing.

Sadly almost every moment of the show where Ramin did something like that, or didn't "sing" a certain section in the traditional sense it got over-dubbed with a subdued, "normal" reading of the line which really ruined and removed the intensity of what were some of his best moments of acting. There's a lot of this starting from 'Down Once More'-thru to the end of the 'Final Lair'.

I'm not saying any of this to diminish his talents btw, its just some interesting facts. I imagine Ramin fans will come at me saying I'm lying or something so if it comes down to me literally having to make a side by side to show examples of these changes I guess I will lol.

All this said, with his pitch and overall voice having improved so much after he got proper training I'm excited to hear how he'll sound playing the role now. He did a two-night concert performance of the role in Korea in 2018 and the improvement over how he sounded in 2011 was night and day.