Judge's Song in Sweeney Todd

Sorry to keep asking Sweeney Todd questions people, but I need input!

The Judge's self-flagellation/masturbation/religious guilt scene-sometimes it is cut, sometimes it is not. What do you think?

In the production I'm going to direct we are planning on using a very intimate space, so my instinct is no, something like that is just too much. However, I know that Sondheim was very adamant about keeping the scene, and I realize it adds to the Judge's character and provides some background for his sudden decision to marry Johanna. If we don't have that scene, the only indication of his feelings are in the Green Finch scene when he says "How sweet you look in that white muslin gown." So I am torn. I will also admit that as a director it is not something I am comfortable staging. But I want to honor the show the best I can.

Like I said, if you're in a huge proscenium house maybe it's okay, but for a thrust stage in a small theatre it is just way too much, I think. But I'd love to hear other opinions, or agreements!

In the production of sweeney i was just in the director decided to cut the begaining of the song when he is singing deliever me and the self-flagellation part and so on. he just had the judge sing

Johanna, Johanna,
I'll keep you here forever,
I'll wed you on the morrow.
Johanna, Johanna,
The world will never touch you,
I'll wed you on the morrow!
As years pass, Johanna,
You'll tend me in my solitude,
No longer as a daughter,
As a woman.
Johanna, Johanna,
I'll hold you here forever then,
You'll keep away from windows and
You'll
Deliver me,
Johanna,
From this
Hot
Red
Devil
With your
Soft
White
Cool
Virgin
Palms.

keeping that little solo in and cutting the begaining helped with the judges character but still keep it a little more tame for the audience to take...you could even keep the whole song and just cut the deliever me's out and the self-flagellation. or you can just give it a shot and keep the whole song as is...lol

pab-thanks for your input. I actually meant that before the dialogue you listed there is no indication of his feelings for her besides that one line. you have that one little clue and then all of a sudden, he's going to marry her. My fear is that the audience goes, "wait, I thought he was her adoptive father? What?" But maybe I'm being too paranoid. It hasn't seemed to hurt anything in other productions not having that scene.

Not being difficult, just wanted to clarify. I appreciate the information.

Yes, I believe it is optional (although I don't have the MTI script on me). I personally feel that the song is not really necessary, but it doesn't hurt to have it in there (unless you're concerned about the first act being too long, which was why it was cut from the original production). The Judge doesn't need to have any "depth" to him--his sole function in the play is to be the object of Sweeney's revenge, and that's all. However, if I were playing the Judge, I'd probably feel differently

On a different note, if you're going to cut anything, cut the optional Pirelli tooth-pulling sequence. It's like, "yes, Sweeney is a better barber than Pirelli. Let's move on."

So, did you type that with one hand?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I'm fully in the 'keep it' camp.

But, personally, I think it's more powerful to have him climax solely from the whipping. I think it says more about his sexual demons if he actually doesn't use his hand.

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Hi, PerforMeg! I say keep the number. It's truly amazing and it's one of my favorites from the show. Since you will be in a small house, maybe, you know, keep his hands out of his pants, but he doesn't actually have to be whacking it onstage for the number to work. I went to see a production of this at Loyola, the Jesuit university here in Chicago, and even they kept the number. (They had him with his shirt off, whipping himself on the back.) I truly think something is lost from the show if the Judge's "Johanna" is cut.

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Meg, I don't mean this in a rude way, but if you're not comfortable directing that - why choose this show to direct it? It's a very pivotal piece of the plot and the material. To me, that just doesn't make sense in a director's choice.

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Sondheim has stated that the original production was not his ideal.

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Thank you, robbiej.

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I too am in the keep it in camp. It's a beautiful song. I don't understand cutting this one any more than I understand those who cut Jud's song in Oklahoma.

I agree that it's an amazing moment.This whole show should be unsettling. That's the whole point,and this is one of the (IMO) defining moments of the show. Maybe it will be a challege for you as a director to push your own comfort levels?

When I did Sweeney in High School, we had some middle schoolers in our cast as well. Our Judge was a tall, talented 13 year old who's voice had changed. We did the song. He removed his jacket and he did whip himself. If he can do it, you can too (in regard to your comfort level).

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Updated On: 10/3/05 at 02:37 PM

I think it's an important song that should be kept -- I've NEVER seen it staged with him ACTUALLY masturbating on stage though!

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I think you can pull it off without the number- there isn't much dialogue about the Judge's and Johanna's relationship, but if he ogles her lecherously enough people should get the idea. That being said, if you can find a way to make the number work in your space, I think you should keep it.

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