Kennedy Center’s SPIDER WOMAN Cancelled- Page 4

[Nicticorax]

Posted: 2/24/23 at 11:45pm

I've always thought Chita was the exception rather than the rule in terms of how old Aurora should be. Wouldn't Molina be remembering Aurora as she was in the movies he saw her in, when she was in her prime?

[JBradshaw]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 12:05am

Ruthie ❤️ 
 

Stephanie Pope kinda already did the role. She was the second Broadway standby for Chita. I believe she went on for act two once. 
 

TheOnlyOne2 said: "I think I must be alone, because a majority of thr names I see being brought up for Aurora make me want to vomit. I I know it's going to go to a household name because of tickets but I will scream if it's Ariana Debose or Rachel Zeigler. I really don't wanna see that. Since it probably a will be something aegul. I'm praying they have an alternate who isn't just about commercial ticket sales. I also think it's a mistake to cast Aurora under 45 or 50 years old. There's a level of command that a seasoned performer with decades of professional experience has that cannot be replaced.

Here are the names I wanna see:

RACHEL YORK or the ghost of Bea Arthur

Stephanie Pope, Charlotte D'amboise, Brenda Braxton, Ruthie Henshall

OR they could cast Hannah Waddingham and please both sides.

And I hope these sets are lavish AF. Expensive, jawdroppimg sets and staging."

 

[TheOnlyOne2]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 12:16am

Nicticorax said: "I've always thought Chita was the exception rather than the rule in terms of how old Aurora should be. Wouldn't Molina be remembering Aurora as she was in the movies he saw her in, when she was in her prime?"

I've had the same thought, but I think it could be argued that he's envisioning roles that span her entire career. I just can't shake that this is a a showpiece for a beloved triple threat. 

Interesting that you feel she's the exception. Could you really envision someone under 35 in this role? I

Side note, Donna Murphy really was the perfect choice during Kennedy Center Honors for Chita. She may not be a dancer, but "Kiss of the Spiderwoman" sounded thrilling with her voice. Very dramatic 🎭

[TheOnlyOne2]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 12:22am

JBradshaw said: "Ruthie ❤️


Stephanie Pope kinda already did the role. She was the second Broadway standby for Chita. I believe she went on for act two 

 

I was talking to my friend the other day and we both weren't sure if she ever went on. Thank you for telling me. She's probably the closest I've seen a Broadway star who looks like me, so I'm a huge fan! :) I also look like an adorable baby giraffe next go everyone else lol

 

[thasanction22]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 12:27am

the new show is spamalot starring leslie kritzer and rob mcclure xo

[JBradshaw]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 1:58am

Steph is amazing. We became friendly and I asked ever go on? She said yea act two bad how scary it was. 
I’d love to hear her sing the title song. 
 

brenda. Eh. 
 

TheOnlyOne2 said: "JBradshaw said: "Ruthie ❤️


Stephanie Pope kinda already did the role. She was the second Broadway standby for Chita. I believe she went on for act two



I was talking to my friend the other day and we both weren't sure if she ever went on. Thank you for telling me. She's probably the closest I've seen a Broadway star who looks like me, so I'm a huge fan! :) I also look like an adorable baby giraffe next go everyone else lol

"

 

[BoringBoredBoard40]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 2:49am

thasanction22 said: "the new show is spamalot starring leslie kritzer and rob mcclure xo"

God I want this to be true so bad

 

[djjd007]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 7:40am

RUTHIE HENSHALL is inspired, although she might work for a UK revival, as she doesn’t have name recognition here sadly. I also wish I had seen Natacia Diaz in the Signature production, I’ll bet she nailed it. I wish Liza had done it in the early 80s. That would’ve been legendary. 

[Ke3]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 8:00am

djjd007 said: "RUTHIE HENSHALL is inspired, although she might work for a UK revival, as she doesn’t have name recognition here sadly. I also wish I had seen Natacia Diaz in the Signature production, I’ll bet she nailed it. I wish Liza had done it in the early 80s. That would’ve been legendary."

It wasn't written until 1992 so that would've been a feat!

[imeldasturn]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 8:02am

I think people seriously overestimate Ruthie Henshall's vocals as of late.

Actually, Ute Lemper might have been very good in this, she has the voice, the dancing, and that Marlene Dietrich-like quality and bone structure. But yeah they'd be foolish to cast a white woman in this.

[binau]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 8:11am

I’ve seen Ruthie once on stage 10 years ago and it wasn’t a pleasant voice then. No idea what it’s like now. 

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 9:41am

TheOnlyOne2 said: "Interesting that you feel she's the exception. Could you really envision someone under 35 in this role?“

Yes, I could, seeing as Vanessa Williams was 31 when she took over for Chita. 

 

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 10:29am

"they'd be foolish to cast a white woman in this."

The character arguably makes more sense as cast as a white woman. Molina is describing Hollywood and European films.

[imeldasturn]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 10:54am

KJisgroovy said: ""they'd be foolish to cast a white woman in this."

The character arguably makes more sense as cast as a white woman. Molina is describing Hollywood and European films."

It would be foolish for the backlash, Aurora being white is not unreasonable 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 11:26am

KJisgroovy said: ""they'd be foolish to cast a white woman in this."

The character arguably makes more sense as cast as a white woman. Molina is describing Hollywood and European films."

The optics and history of the role are such that it pretty much must be a woman of color. Your argument above could also be applied to "people don't usually sing in prisons" or "but the founding fathers were white" or "but why would there be Black and Latinx people in 19th century London for Sweeney" or "but why are the King and Anna dancing the polka" –– the argument you're trying to make is narrowminded, outdated, and annoying.

Updated On: 2/25/23 at 11:26 AM

[darquegk]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 12:08pm

They deleted the fact that Aurora is a Nazi propaganda actress to allow use of women of color in the role. It leads to more diverse casting, though it simplifies Molina’s character and politics now that he’s merely flamboyant and frivolous, instead of actively blinkered and apolitical. (A genderqueer individual loving Aurora then would be like a genderqueer individual making Harry Potter their whole personality post Rowlinggate today.)

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 12:41pm

"the argument you're trying to make is narrowminded, outdated, and annoying."

I'm not trying to make an argument. Just mentioning that a white actress (especially if everyone else in the cast is Latinx) is more in line with the original intention of Manuel Puig. I don't care who is cast. I don't think it SHOULD be a white woman, just that there's reasoning to cast it that way as the character is not written as a woman of color (the way every other character in the piece is). Calling me annoying from those two sentences I wrote is a lot. 

[TheOnlyOne2]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 1:22pm

JBradshaw said: "Steph is amazing. We became friendly and I asked ever go on? She said yea act two bad how scary it was.
I’d love to hear her sing the title song.


brenda. Eh.

Why is Brenda an "Eh"?

She would be atleast a great alternate. She can dance down, and remember the voice doesn't need to be out of this world. It's more about presence. 

[TheOnlyOne2]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 1:30pm

Yes, I could, seeing as Vanessa Williams was 31 when she took over for Chita.

Point taken. I guess I always think she's in her 40s, even tho its easily googleable. They make her look aged up in it. That heavy ass makeup! 

 Chita still is superior in handling the part though and not just based on the dancing. In my opinion someone younger just can create that.

 

[Nicticorax]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 2:11pm

darquegk said: "They deleted the fact that Aurora is a Nazi propaganda actress to allow use of women of color in the role. It leads to more diverse casting, though it simplifies Molina’s character and politics now that he’s merely flamboyant and frivolous, instead of actively blinkered and apolitical. (A genderqueer individual loving Aurora then would be like a genderqueer individual making Harry Potter their whole personality post Rowlinggate today.)"

Not to take a side in this debate, but I think something to consider is that (in the book), the movies that Molina is recounting are real movies, and they're all American, with the exception of the Nazi one. The Nazi movie isn't actually a real movie, but a composite. So, all the actresses Molina is idolizing are explicitly white and (mostly) American. The musical seems to explicitly change this, by having Molina say that he "even loves the films Aurora made in Hollywood", implying she is not American and came to Hollywood later. The roles she is cast in (a Russian princess, a captive in the Amazon) seem to suggest someone who is white-passing enough to be a Hollywood star, but "exotic" enough to be cast in vaguely foreign roles.
I agree about the simplification of the character's ideology, although I think the movie goes too far in the other direction by having him only recount the Nazi film.

All this being said, I don't think they need to or even should stick to historical accuracy. Sure, Aurora realistically probably wouldn't have become a Hollywood star at that time if she looked like Ariana DeBose or Audra McDonald. But who cares?

 

[Owen22]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 2:52pm

binau said: "I’ve seen Ruthie once on stage 10 years ago and it wasn’t a pleasant voice then. No idea what it’s like now."

She was just fine in "Passion" at Hope Mills last spring in Manchester.

However the strong rumor was she was going to be Madame Thenardier in the new cast of Les Miz but that's no longer happening...

[JBradshaw]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 6:33pm

10 years ago, “Follies”?  I thought she sounded great  ruthie’s had some vocal problems, but my girl is back 😻

…..ruthies my fav musical theatre actress

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w6ySvaVN7BI

 

binau said: "I’ve seen Ruthie once on stage 10 years ago and it wasn’t a pleasant voice then. No idea what it’s like now."

 

[djjd007]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 10:57pm

Having just worked with Ruthie last year, her voice is in excellent shape!

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 11:25pm

Of course the original infamous Kiss of the Spider Woman musical in Purchase had a white Aurora, Lauren Mitchell, but her sequences were much more elaborate and full on camp.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, they profiled that production on the A&E Breakfast with the Arts program (remember that?) and there are brief clips.  What's amusing to me about it is Prince, McNally, Kander and Ebb all talk about how brave a show it is, but manage to avoid mentioning that one of its leads is gay...  Prince also talks about he loves doing the show because the elaborate movie pastiches allow him to have garish costumes and old fashioned musical comedy stuff like a tap solo for a sailor (I suspect in the replaced "Man Overboard" section)  And of course all that stuff is what wasn't working and was scrapped for the Livent rescue of the show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqyV_WTKt20

Updated On: 2/25/23 at 11:25 PM

[Ke3]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 11:36pm

djjd007 said: "Having just worked with Ruthie last year, her voice is in excellent shape!"

Off topic, but I'm always fascinated by vocal recoveries. If you see clips of Tonya Pinkins towards the end of her run in Caroline you think, "wow she's never gonna sing again" and then as early as 2010 there's clips of her where'd you'd never know she'd had damage. Other people seem to destroy their voice and never really recover it.