Musicals that SHOULDN"T be done in high schools...but have... — Page 6

It was very interesting re-reading this thread from 2005 since I am now a high school drama teacher.

Honestly, in terms of what is "appropriate" for a high school, it completely depends on the community. Nowadays, a lot of high schools could do "adult" musicals like Rent, Sweeney Todd, Cabaret, and Chicago without any problem. By modern standards, these are all PG-13 level shows (is there a musical that isn't?), and they can definitely have educational value. However, the teacher/director at a school like mine in a relatively conservative community has to "play it safe." The most "edgy" thing I've done there is Carousel and I will admit that I edited out most of the physical abuse content. Yes, it would have been a good conversation starter, but some people just don't want to their kids to have those kinds of conversations, which is unfortunate.

I am also now the father of a young girl, and I don't want her dancing in her underwear onstage in a school show no matter how well done it is!

"I am also now the father of a young girl, and I don't want her dancing in her underwear onstage in a school show no matter how well done it is!"

THIS! And I will add I would not want to have seen any of my kid’s friends that way. Nor would I want to see a student that way if I were a HS teacher.

WITH some caveats however that I did NOT recognize when this issue came up over a year ago. As I mentioned when I restarted this topic, in my opinion sexuality itself is not the issue. It's whether it's necessary to make an important point.

If I were in the audience of a HS production of Gypsy, I'd be VERY uncomfortable watching the Minsky scene play out like the professional version. I'm actually expected to applaud the HS girl being that sexually arousing (in character of course) when she finishes her act naked (supposedly) ?

Explain to me why I needed to see that in order to understand THAT she "accidently" found her calling in show business as a stripper. As I said, I think by definition it's gratuitous. No issue of course for the professional play or community theater or even college. But HS? I don’t’ see the justification.

But that scene CAN be modified (and has been as I discovered) and the story of the relationship issues between Rose and Louise does not suffer.

As opposed to Heathers as I learned. Some HS eliminate the “losing virginity” part of the Girl Walking. From what I understand, that does in fact render the story a bit less impactful and so I see no issue personally (as long as they don’t’ literally simulate what they are doing, which I think would actually be illegal for HS)

Cabaret? You can't avoid having several HS girls dressed in a provocative manner. So I'd wonder is it really worth doing a play that might make parents and teachers uncomfortable ONLY because it's famous? Or am I missing some important message for HS students the play conveys that makes that potential controversy worth it? If so, I'm very open to changing my mind.

I’ve come a long way in the last 18 months on this topic. But to me some directors perhaps think of themselves as being at a level higher than HS. Thinking "I always wanted to do (some play) and no parent or teacher is going to stop me.”

Not realizing they'd get true support from people like me IF they can effectively show that controversy made some theatrical point pertinent to that age group.

Updated On: 11/22/21 at 04:53 PM

R. GreenFinch said: "There's a high school version of heathers. It's her "first kiss" instead of losing her virginity."

And I certainly understand that modification. The only point I'm making is the sexuality of her losing her virginity does in fact make a point regarding her desperation to feel (literally) one with someone / something. I've only read of the play and people's comments on it, but the idea of losing one's sense of self through wanting TOO much to belong is a theme from what I understand. And it's been argued that the "first kiss" thing (for a HS student) doesn't make that point as effectively. So I understand a director making the case for keeping it despite the controversy.

I don't understand a HS director's reasoning for doing the Minsky scene true to the professional version. And I'll add it was a bit of a sore point for me because (on a different discussion forum) I was (vulgarly) criticized for that opinion

Updated On: 11/22/21 at 05:12 PM

When I saw this had been bumped I thought it might be because of the article BWW posted a few days ago about a HS production of Legally Blonde that was canceled.

https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/High-School-Cancels-Performances-of-LEGALLY-BLONDE-Due-To-Language-Innuendo-Concerns-20211119

Which of course was reminiscent of this story

https://www.playbill.com/article/ohio-high-school-fires-director-for-staging-legally-blonde-musical-creators-and-parents-comment-com-200907

LB is the kind of show I can imagine more uptight parents getting upset about, while being material that really isn't too adult for anyone at a high school level. But that's just me.

I read the story about LB being cancelled last minute. That is a HORRIBLE situation to put those kids in. And all it will do is spawn resentment for the adults in charge. It reminds me of the school that decided to censor every yearbook picture that showed even the tiniest bit of "cleavage". (In quotes since the example that was publicized really wasn't what anyone would call cleavage).

What I found ironic is the idea that the theater is an extension of the classroom - wonderful way to look at it in my opinion. And yet if it is, why were they so ignorant of the "curriculum”? I would have NO issue with a school that worked with the drama department no different than presumably they work with all the other departments. Not being "reactionary" like this school obviously was.

That said, there really IS a large variance in what certain communities will accept. I do think the heads of HS drama department need to work closer with the school admin to assure there is mutual understanding. Actually that needs to include parents and students as well.

I do think the kids can understand there will be limits (it's HS, not professional or semi-professional). And there SHOULD be limits. There is PLENTY of time for students to take on more adult roles beyond high school. They CAN have a fantastic experience in theater without almost intentionally creating negative feelings. If the pandemic taught us anything regarding theater, it’s that it simply doesn’t exist without the audience.

But those limits have to be reasonable – not unnecessarily restrictive. Compromise will be required on ALL sides.

What I see in my limited reading of such issues is an unnecessary almost adversarial relationship. Schools and parents with (maybe) good intentions not recognizing the desire for kids to explore. But also directors and students in other cases - for no theatrical reason - almost defiantly pushing things past a line many might understandably draw.

It's all avoidable with communication and mutual respect. There should NEVER be a controversy AFTER a production is staged or even leading up to opening night. It should be recognized and addressed ahead of time by all parties (director, students, school admin including faculty representation, and parents).

I'm kind of stuck on the "Gypsy" issue for reasons I won't get into - but I actually saw several HS promotions for it that not only didn't address the potential controversy, they even avoided the term "stripper". One even said she found success as a "dancer". As if ignoring the issue makes it non-existent. Why not acknowledge it and emphasize they are focused on the true message of the play (Rose and her daughters) and assure everyone they adjusted the scene so the issue does NOT get in the way of that?

I was 100% against it for HS until I educated myself and realized it's a great play for that age group provided that one scene is modified. To do it like the professional play I feel is disrespectful to parents / teachers; putting them in a position to "appreciate" (in the theatrical sense) a high school kid's ability to portray the obvious sexuality of the Minsky scene. Given that is NOT at all the point of the story.

The discomfort people will likely feel actually takes us out of the play. The woman who insulted me even acknowledged people likely felt awkward, and that she did too. Yet later said anyone who felt uncomfortable watching her interpretation of the character's sexuality had issues. She objected to being "sexualized" by my pointing out the sexuality she herself acknowledged. Then emphasized she was simply acting. Well, of course - it's a play! But "suspension of disbelief" has us think of you as Gypsy, not a High School kid pretending. She said the director made sure she was OK doing it that way - but obviously it was the director's preference. And he/she should be fired if she wasn't OK with it. Yet why leave a HS kid with that decision anyway? She might worry she'd lose the part to someone willing to do it like the pro version.

The obvious downside is her defensiveness (several years later) and willingness to lash out at anyone questioning her decision to "force' people to accept that in a high school play.

The fact I later learned that many schools tone that down significantly made me change my mind. I doubt their plays suffered from that decision since it doesn't add to the story. And I assume (hope) no one in the audience was disappointed the striptease wasn't more authentic (except maybe the HS boys.)

So to me the onus is on the drama department to recognize the reality of the situation they are in - it IS high school, not pro or semi-pro. But that doesn't sentence them to a lifetime of G rated plays either. They can work with the school, parents, and students to create a rewarding experience and avoid the negative feelings that can arise without that partnership.

Rant over – and I apologize for the venting. I do appreciate the implied agreement I've received from this . More so I appreciate the continued education I’m getting - important to me as my grandkids get older (one of which is already interested in theater).

Updated On: 11/23/21 at 11:19 AM

WW_LV said: "
Cabaret? You can't avoid having several HS girls dressed in a provocative manner. So I'd wonder is it really worth doing a play that might make parents and teachers uncomfortable ONLY because it's famous? Or am I missing some important message for HS students the play conveys that makes that potential controversy worth it? If so, I'm very open to changing my mind."

Well, Cabaret does teach HS students that Nazis are bad, which we've unfortunately seen in the last year and a half is still a lesson about half the high school students in the country need to learn.

WW_LV said: "Is there a need for the girls to dress and act as they do in the professional play?"



Yes

Michael Bennett said: "I've also see a HORRIBLE high school production of A CHORUS LINE, where they cut all the language, changed the lyrics of "T&A" to "Boobs and Buns" added three characters to the line, and cut Paul's references to being gay.

Now really, why do the show, if you have to make such cuts?"

I remember a high school production in the '80's that replaced T&A with "This and That." Rather clever, IMO.

Rocky Horror Show, Follies, Oh Calcutta

Always an interesting thread to come back to as a high school theatre teacher.

Since the show has been brought up more than a couple of times, I thought I'd mention the recent production of "Follies" we did at our high school earlier this year.

Up until last year, I also held the opinion (like most on this thread) that "Follies" is a show that should NEVER be done at a high school. But then...

Our beloved school's auditorium (the community's center of art for over 60 years) was being torn down this summer in favor of a newer fancier set-up.

We decided to do "Follies" as the final show in the theatre just weeks before it was torn down. We had various alumni from the past 60 years of our school come back to play Sally, Ben, Buddy, Phyllis and the other leads, as well as walk in the "Beautiful Girls" processional. In total, over 100 alumni participated.

My current students played the 'ghosts' of the characters' younger selves, and danced in Whos That Woman, the Loveland numbers, and some other sequences.

"Follies" was actually a very profound experience for the current high school students and we had many fascinating discussions with them regarding the multiple themes in that script. As many of them were about to step out of high school and begin their 'real lives', the themes in that show were incredibly relevant to them. They loved it, and I dare say, learned a lot. Not to mention, the level of theatre and music education is always operating at a higher level when you are working with material from Sondheim.

They also learned so much from the returning alumni. As they got to know them and hear about their experiences when they were in high school theatre decades earlier in the same building, they were literally able to get a small glimpse of their future selves. It was a really unique experience. I'm really glad we did it.

Yes, you understood correctly about our production of "Follies" having adults playing the roles.

But, I also think for the most part, "Follies" is kind of a different beast than the other shows you are mentioning. There isn't a ton of sexual or provocative content in "Follies." It just always shows up on these threads mostly because the subject matter has to do with aging and regret and and the thoughts and feelings humans deal with once they hit a certain age...so most people think its a bit ridiculous for high schoolers to tackle such mature subject matter.

So, I think the points you are making about Cabaret, Legally Blonde, Spring Awakening, etc.. are valid, but kind of a different beast than "Follies." Over all though, yes, front-loading families and audiences with content advisories and explanations regarding why certain topics are being addressed and what the educational outcomes are hoped to be is almost always a good idea.

Some times though (as may have been the case in the Legally Blonde situation) we fail to foresee controversy. Maybe other high schools in the area had already produced it without a problem, maybe this wasn't even a parent of a cast member so they never received a possible original content warning at auditions. Sounds like this teacher had the show approved by her administration, and probably didn't guess that what was probably only ONE community member objecting to some content (Gay or European perhaps?) would cause such a stir at the district level.

That's what kinda sucks about teaching some times. Most of us are really trying our best and trying to put out as many fires before they ignite as we can, but the larger and more successful our programs become, the more we open ourselves to one community member being angry about something. Some times it feels impossible to make everyone happy...

Theaterguy2 said: "Sweeney Todd.

and this is one that I've often seen done but shouldnt. "Fiddler on the Roof"...for one reason only. There is no teenage boy that can play Tevya. Without a good Tevya that shopw just doesnt work.

Les Miserables. (Whoever came up with that school version idea...i have a bone to pick with you.) "



I disagree about FIDDLER. I did the sets for a high school.production of the show and student who.playes Tevye was marvelous.. Previoysly he'd played Simon Stimson in OUR TOWN and Brian O'Banion in AUNTIE MAME. FIDDLER was his first musical.