Musicals that should no longer be performed (or at least updated) — Page 2

Mister Matt said: "
I'll admit, I'd love to see some of those with their original books and scores intact. Especially Of Thee I Sing, Girl Crazy, Good News and Anything Goes."

I think I mentioned that UCLA did a very good production of the original book and score of BABES IN ARMS. If one had a reasonable knowledge of the 1930s, the many topical references were comprehensible, but the entire exercise had a sort of "coolness" about it, akin to visiting a museum.

Of the shows you mention, OF THEE I SING remains charming, but it would have to seem quaint to anyone coming of age in the post-Reagan era. This is by no means to say it can't be done or should be rewritten; nobody need fool him/herself, however, that its sarcasm still has much bite. IMHO, obviously.

The Distinctive Baritone said: "Yup. Merchant is totally anti-Semitic, and Shrew is totally sexist. Having done both shows, I can say there’s really not much you can cut from the text to solve the respective problems in these two particular shows - you kinda just have to make certain acting and directing choices to tone down the offensiveness and hope for the best."

The Meryl Streep/Raul Julia SHREW in the Park in the early 1980s, was already drawing boos from the feminists in the crowd. But those two great actors somehow, with few text changes it seemed to me, made it feel like a journey to equality, not male superiority. There was no booing by the end of the evening, not on the nights I went.

^^^ Wonkit, musicals before Oklahoma! in 1943 tended to feature vaudeville comics doing topical routines borrowed from their vaudeville acts. These routines were simply written into the book of each show, and additional topical jokes were added on top. For every classic like "Who's on First?", there were 15 shows with jokes that make little sense now except to scholars of the period.

As a rule, these comic turns had little to nothing to do with the plot. (Jerome Kern and P.G. Wodehouse wrote slightly more integrated musical comedies, but the humor was still pretty conventional per its time.)

Some of this tradition survives in shows like Pajama Game, where Eddie Foy, Jr. brought his vaudeville skills to "Hinesy", and I Had a Ball, where Buddy Hackett, um..., was Buddy Hackett.

The original production of Babes in Arms, the revival of which I mentioned above had references to people like Lindbergh that today's audiences (at least those of a certain age) still get. But there were even more attempts to wring humor out of references to socialites or starlets or gossip columnists of the 1930s. (Think Kardashian and Sarah Huckabee Sanders jokes and how they will play 80 years from now.)

One might say comedy itself tends to date more quickly than tragedy, unless the comedy is very universal.

Updated On: 11/5/18 at 11:19 PM

The easiest form of comedy is cheap cultural catharsis, which is something that shows like South Park and Family Guy, not to mention Saturday Night Live, have leaned heavily on for a long time. You bring a lot of people together, point at something bothersome and say, "look, don't we all recognize this as being worthy of dismissal?", and everyone laughs to signal their approval. I don't think any comedy ages quicker than that - it's like junk food relevance, easier than pointing up something more substantially universal.

To be fair, writing a comedy that's funny forever is nearly impossible, because comedy itself changes so drastically, which is why, as someone else noted, actors essentially become translators. "Taming of the Shrew", on the page, is crushingly unfunny, but in the hands of acting alchemists like Raul Julia and Meryl Streep, it was solid gold.

Woman of the Year's showstopper, "The Grass Is Always Greener", now makes no sense to anyone but people who were alive then and people whose parents kept Erma Bombeck books in the bathroom. Was "That Was A Real Nice Clambake" ever a funny number?

I've always wondered about how H2$ would play with a black Finch, using the Book to get ahead in a mostly-white company. The trouble is "Brotherhood of Man." With its lampooning of Dixieland and Gospel, and pro-mediocrity and shiftlessness message- not to mention the double entrendre of "you are a brother" and "you need a brother's leadership" etc.- with a black Finch it would either play as devastatingly dark comedy (Finch literally shucking and jiving his way out of a problem as the oblivious whites smile and nod) or as minstrel show (Finch Uncle Tomming for his life).

ScottyDoesn'tKnow2 said: "One outdated thing, out of a few that had be discussed earlier, is the idea of being a "company man". That doesn't seem to exist as much anymore as people are more mobile in changing from one position at one company to another because of lack of mobility or the speed of getting a better paying job is faster if you keep sending one's resume out."

I think it still works. Sure there's a gig economy and a lot of freelancers and even CEOs jumping from company to company. But there's still corporate culture and sycophants and people who don't want to innovate or make waves for fear of losing their jobs. On a darker note, that's why sexual harassment training tells you there won't be repercussions for coming forward and that it's important to not be a bystander.

Examples in the latest version I saw...

1. Rosemary is desperate for a man, no matter how poorly he treats her. "happy to keep his dinner warm"

2. All the women were secretaries or viewed as sex objects.

3. There were several jokes which I can't remember the exact wording unfortunately.

In doing some more online research just now, I came across this, Charles McNulty of the Los Angeles Times opined that the musical "is hampered by a dated book" and that its "episodic structure now seems as belabored as a sitcom plucked from a rusty time capsule", while "all the romantic brouhaha with moony secretaries is beyond retro."

barcelona20 said: "Examples in the latest version I saw...

1. Rosemary is desperate for a man, no matter how poorly he treats her. "happy to keep his dinner warm"

"Desperate for a man" or desirous of being married? Why is that a bad thing? "...no matter how poorly he treats her?" huh... like he beats her? abuses her? Why do you feel she should be shamed for wanting to be a care giver to her spouse?

2. All the women were secretaries or viewed as sex objects.
'Personal assistants' or 'office managers' require employees to have fantastic organizational skills and high-level manual skills. Do you feel it's accidental, or just coincidence that women were often selected for roles that require that level of responsibility?

As for "sex objects", how do you feel about the number, "A Secretary Is Not a Toy", sung predominantly by the men? Just a reminder that in today's world, the term "work spouse" (husband or wife) is acceptable as a term of endearment for a non-sexual relationship with a co-worker.


3. There were several jokes which I can't remember the exact wording unfortunately.

In doing some more online research just now, I came across this,Charles McNulty of theLos Angeles Timesopined that the musical "is hampered by a dated book" and that its "episodic structure now seems as belabored as a sitcom plucked from a rusty time capsule", while "all the romantic brouhaha with moony secretaries is beyond retro.""

One man's opinion, that I happen to disagree with, but each to his own.

H2$ is a good example of a musical that needs a firm hand to guide it, lest people mistake its subversive satire about how people change themselves to fit a perceived ideal for dull misogyny. Robert Morse was great casting, because he's so shifty and conniving that he fits the biting, cynical atmosphere, which is where the Radcliffe casting failed. One of the reviews of the revival suggested that you don't particularly want Frump to succeed, which is kind of the point of the show, but a point that production failed to communicate.

HumanHeart said: "The Phantom of the Opera. Yes, it's a classic, but it suffers from several flaws. The Broadway version feels dated and has basically been the same since it opened."

I couldn't disagree more; I think it's timeless. The fact that a show "has basically been the same since it opened" is not a valid reason for making changes to it. It's not like repainting your bedroom.

and I Had a Ball, where Buddy Hackett, um..., was Buddy Hackett.

Oh, but that title song as sung by Dolores Gray is DIVINE.



and people whose parents kept Erma Bombeck books in the bathroom.

If Life's a Bowl of Cherries, What am I Doing in the Pits?!?! HAHAHAHAHAHA!! Oh, that Bombeck.



Was "That Was A Real Nice Clambake" ever a funny number?

Was it supposed to be FUNNY? Maybe that's why I always hated it.



I think it still works. Sure there's a gig economy and a lot of freelancers and even CEOs jumping from company to company. But there's still corporate culture and sycophants and people who don't want to innovate or make waves for fear of losing their jobs.

Oh, absolutely. Most major companies still pretend to reward longevity and promote internal advancement in order to manufacture loyalty, especially from lower management and grunts. I've seen lifers who may get tossed a couple of bones in the way of meaningless promotions (with minimal-to-no-salary increase and zero authority) who never stop cheer leading for the company because the Kool-Aid permanently addled their brains into thinking it's DELICIOUS. They truly believe they owe their LIVES to the company and view any investigation of comparable positions/compensation with outside companies to be traitorous. If you've ever had to sit in on a large corporate motivational/management meeting or town hall, it might seem unbelievable to you, but it is very much alive and well in today's America.

Updated On: 11/6/18 at 05:00 PM

HumanHeart said: "To answer your question:

1) Chicago. It could be incredible if it was redone. They should take away that giant on-stage orchestra band that takes up 70% of stage space and have real scene changes, costume changes, and elaborate sets and props. It's very monochromatic and dated as it is now."

you know it used to include those things but it was changed in the 90s?