NBC's SMASH, Season 2 -- Discussion — Page 76
#1877
Posted: 4/21/13 at 8:22pm
You would think by now there would be an easier way to gather ratings for the whole population with a tv. Then again, maybe based on some of what I watch, I wouldn't want them to find out.
"I don't want the pretty lights to come and get me."-Homecoming 2005
"You can't pray away the gay."-Callie Torres on Grey's Anatomy.
Ignored Users: suestorm, N2N Nate., Owen22, master bates
#1879
Posted: 4/21/13 at 8:40pm
The current Nielsen system is definitely flawed, but I also understand the reluctance to leave it behind. The networks don't need to measure how many people are watching Smash (or any show); they need to measure who many people are watching the commercials during Smash.
The advertisers need to know how much their commercials are worth. This is a large part of funding for each episode (also included could be any product placement written directly into a script, etc). If you're not watching the commercials, and at this point who really is, then the logic is why should you be counted?
When Smash is hitting horrid numbers like 0.4, which is lower than half the programming on the CW(!) then the advertisers will basically be running their ads for free.
Since episodes of Smash cost 2 to 3 times the amount it costs to produce a single episode of most scripted shows on television this makes the picture twice as bleak.
Here's a great article, with an interesting graphic you can enlarge on the left:
http://adage.com/article/media/tv-ad-prices-idol-match-football/237874/
The advertisers need to know how much their commercials are worth. This is a large part of funding for each episode (also included could be any product placement written directly into a script, etc). If you're not watching the commercials, and at this point who really is, then the logic is why should you be counted?
When Smash is hitting horrid numbers like 0.4, which is lower than half the programming on the CW(!) then the advertisers will basically be running their ads for free.
Since episodes of Smash cost 2 to 3 times the amount it costs to produce a single episode of most scripted shows on television this makes the picture twice as bleak.
Here's a great article, with an interesting graphic you can enlarge on the left:
http://adage.com/article/media/tv-ad-prices-idol-match-football/237874/
Marie: Don't be in such a hurry about that pretty little chippy in Frisco.
Tony: Eh, she's a no chip!
Updated On: 4/21/13 at 08:40 PM
#1880
Posted: 4/21/13 at 8:42pm
Was Smash on last night in LA? I set the DVR but got an episode of The Voice instead.
#1881
Posted: 4/21/13 at 8:48pm
It was moved to 8pm instead of 9. Did you manually set up the recording or set up a series? If you set up a series, it will record it no matter how often they switch the day/time.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#1882
Posted: 4/21/13 at 8:51pm
I set series but still got The Voice. It was odd the DVR said it was an episode of Smash when I went to watch it....oh well I'll have to check online. Thanks.
#1883
Posted: 4/21/13 at 9:15pm
If you're not watching the commercials, and at this point who really is, then the logic is why should you be counted?
That's a big part of why the current measurement system is flawed - because it doesn't capture the entire audience watching the commercials.
The current industry standard for TV ratings is a "C3" guarantee, which means the media delivery that the network has to deliver to the advertiser is a Commercial rating (not a program rating) with 3 days of viewership/DVR playback included.
We also know that other screens deliver the same program content, and the commercials served on an online Full Episode Player or mobile viewership via a Network App can be measured. The issue is aggregating all of these so that the true audience across all platforms (screen agnostic) is captured for the network and advertiser.
Pricing for programs is rarely done on a program-by-program basis, unless you are purchasing an event such as the Super Bowl. Generally program unit costs are derived from an overall package an advertiser places, based on the budget, guarantee and program mix. Generally, the higher the rating - the higher the 'unit cost', but the pricing is directional and different for every advertiser. (A rate card is established by the network, which is then modified based on purchase negotiations).
Bottom line, it's true that a poorly-performing program, based on current Nielsen measurement, is likely to get cancelled. Networks can't afford to keep these low-rated shows on their schedule - especially when the show has a high production cost, as you mentioned. (Hence, the huge increase in 'reality programming' on network schedules in recent years which cost very little to develop, relative to scripted programs). Therefore, it's important that the industry evolve to understand who is truly watching the programs/commercials, and capture viewership across all available media platforms. The networks don't want to leave any measurement of audience on the table!
That's a big part of why the current measurement system is flawed - because it doesn't capture the entire audience watching the commercials.
The current industry standard for TV ratings is a "C3" guarantee, which means the media delivery that the network has to deliver to the advertiser is a Commercial rating (not a program rating) with 3 days of viewership/DVR playback included.
We also know that other screens deliver the same program content, and the commercials served on an online Full Episode Player or mobile viewership via a Network App can be measured. The issue is aggregating all of these so that the true audience across all platforms (screen agnostic) is captured for the network and advertiser.
Pricing for programs is rarely done on a program-by-program basis, unless you are purchasing an event such as the Super Bowl. Generally program unit costs are derived from an overall package an advertiser places, based on the budget, guarantee and program mix. Generally, the higher the rating - the higher the 'unit cost', but the pricing is directional and different for every advertiser. (A rate card is established by the network, which is then modified based on purchase negotiations).
Bottom line, it's true that a poorly-performing program, based on current Nielsen measurement, is likely to get cancelled. Networks can't afford to keep these low-rated shows on their schedule - especially when the show has a high production cost, as you mentioned. (Hence, the huge increase in 'reality programming' on network schedules in recent years which cost very little to develop, relative to scripted programs). Therefore, it's important that the industry evolve to understand who is truly watching the programs/commercials, and capture viewership across all available media platforms. The networks don't want to leave any measurement of audience on the table!
"Two drifters off to see the world. There's such a lot of world to see. . ."
Updated On: 4/21/13 at 09:15 PM
#1884
Posted: 4/21/13 at 9:22pm
Anyway... back to SMASH: Despite the low ratings, I hope against hope that it will be given another chance to succeed! 
"Two drifters off to see the world. There's such a lot of world to see. . ."
#1885
Posted: 4/21/13 at 9:23pm
Makes sense. Is that also why a lot of shows when they go to syndication seem to get cut to pieces now so they can fit more advertising in?
"I don't want the pretty lights to come and get me."-Homecoming 2005
"You can't pray away the gay."-Callie Torres on Grey's Anatomy.
Ignored Users: suestorm, N2N Nate., Owen22, master bates
#1886
Posted: 4/21/13 at 9:34pm
Yes Marianne, that's the reason!
Addy, Thanks for the further explanation. I love learning about how this all works. Tvbythenumbers.com is so fun to follow; the industry seems to be at a crossroads of how to proceed with scripted programming. Should we just put all scripted shows directly on hulu/iTunes for $2.99 an episode? Should all scripted shows be sent to cable and network TV be used for reality programming and sports?
It will be interesting to watch how the industry adapts in the next 5-10 years as technology continues to progress.
Addy, Thanks for the further explanation. I love learning about how this all works. Tvbythenumbers.com is so fun to follow; the industry seems to be at a crossroads of how to proceed with scripted programming. Should we just put all scripted shows directly on hulu/iTunes for $2.99 an episode? Should all scripted shows be sent to cable and network TV be used for reality programming and sports?
It will be interesting to watch how the industry adapts in the next 5-10 years as technology continues to progress.
Marie: Don't be in such a hurry about that pretty little chippy in Frisco.
Tony: Eh, she's a no chip!
#1887
Posted: 4/21/13 at 9:39pm
Not to mention consumer-generated content, such as what is being viewed in ever-increasing numbers on 'networks' such as YouTube.
It's a fascinating time in the industry.
TV still delivers the largest audience in media, and time spent viewing TV continues to grow... it's just becoming more and more fragmented.
"Content' still matters. Good content will draw an audience, so regardless of viewership platform, an audience will find, and watch, good content.
It's a fascinating time in the industry.
TV still delivers the largest audience in media, and time spent viewing TV continues to grow... it's just becoming more and more fragmented.
"Content' still matters. Good content will draw an audience, so regardless of viewership platform, an audience will find, and watch, good content.
"Two drifters off to see the world. There's such a lot of world to see. . ."
#1888
Posted: 4/21/13 at 9:48pm
Isn't Arrested Development coming back as a Netflix production? House of Cards was that way too, right?
When I watch Hulu and see the ads for their original series I think, "Damn, some of this looks really good and has a decent budget."
You watch something like American Horror Story and think THIS is what 666 Park Avenue wanted to be, but cable (and a variety of other factors) allowed them to do it better.
Smash is interesting in the context of this discussion. It's a niche show that seems to have a passionate fanbase, but can't find an a live viewing audience and has practically been sabotaged by its network this season.
When I watch Hulu and see the ads for their original series I think, "Damn, some of this looks really good and has a decent budget."
You watch something like American Horror Story and think THIS is what 666 Park Avenue wanted to be, but cable (and a variety of other factors) allowed them to do it better.
Smash is interesting in the context of this discussion. It's a niche show that seems to have a passionate fanbase, but can't find an a live viewing audience and has practically been sabotaged by its network this season.
Marie: Don't be in such a hurry about that pretty little chippy in Frisco.
Tony: Eh, she's a no chip!
#1889
Posted: 4/21/13 at 10:08pm
"Smash is interesting in the context of this discussion. It's a niche show that seems to have a passionate fanbase, but can't find an a live viewing audience and has practically been sabotaged by its network this season. "
Great post which says it all about SMASH.
Great post which says it all about SMASH.
#1890
Posted: 4/21/13 at 10:25pm
On a side note, I think it's kind of funny the way NBC is now tagging episode promos with the line, "Watch it Live." They're still taped programs, but if you watch them when they air, you're apparently watching them live. I'm not sure "Watch it Live" is going to happen.
As for the latest SMASH, I didn't get a chance to watch it until tonight and it gave me some catharsis for the emotions I have been bottling up this week because I started blubbering during Bernadette's speech to Ivy and pretty much kept bawling through the episode. I really liked it. "Don't Forget Me" absolutely slayed me.
As for the latest SMASH, I didn't get a chance to watch it until tonight and it gave me some catharsis for the emotions I have been bottling up this week because I started blubbering during Bernadette's speech to Ivy and pretty much kept bawling through the episode. I really liked it. "Don't Forget Me" absolutely slayed me.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#1892
Posted: 4/21/13 at 11:21pm
Megan's "Don't Forget Me" had me in tears. The moment the people from the show was behind her and then Bernadette smiled with approval......I was done.
"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2
#1893
Posted: 4/21/13 at 11:29pm
McPhee's dress in this episode reminded me the chrysler building dress from The Producers. Everytime she was on screen with that dress, I was thinking Gary Beach.
Am I the only one?
Am I the only one?
#1894
Posted: 4/21/13 at 11:49pm
No, you weren't. Several Actresses sported that style at the Oscars this year.
Hilty's Marilyn gown and her party frock were way better.
Hilty's Marilyn gown and her party frock were way better.
#1895
Posted: 4/21/13 at 11:52pm
They both looked stunning. The costume designers on the show are doing an outstanding job.
#1896
Posted: 4/22/13 at 12:00am
I will not allow any shade to be thrown on Karen for how she looked at the opening. I'm not saying anyone has, I'm just letting that be a warning. She looked gorje. Although when I first saw that 40s-ish hair, I thought, did she dress as Norma Jean?
But I really did like Karen's story this week. How she didn't want to go but made herself, and though it was tough and it wasn't easy, she really showed herself to be a class act. I'm sure I'll hate her again next week, but .. goddamn it, well done, McPhee. Also, someone up there speculated Karen dying, and I really don't think it's gonna happen, but if she does, I'll try to remember her as she was at the opening of Bombshell.
But I really did like Karen's story this week. How she didn't want to go but made herself, and though it was tough and it wasn't easy, she really showed herself to be a class act. I'm sure I'll hate her again next week, but .. goddamn it, well done, McPhee. Also, someone up there speculated Karen dying, and I really don't think it's gonna happen, but if she does, I'll try to remember her as she was at the opening of Bombshell.
#1897
Posted: 4/22/13 at 12:00am
I will not allow any shade to be thrown on Karen for how she looked at the opening. I'm not saying anyone has, I'm just letting that be a warning. She looked gorje. Although when I first saw that 40s-ish hair, I thought, did she dress as Norma Jean?
But I really did like Karen's story this week. How she didn't want to go but made herself, and though it was tough and it wasn't easy, she really showed herself to be a class act. I'm sure I'll hate her again next week, but .. goddamn it, well done, McPhee. Also, someone up there speculated Karen dying, and I really don't think it's gonna happen, but if she does, I'll try to remember her as she was at the opening of Bombshell.
But I really did like Karen's story this week. How she didn't want to go but made herself, and though it was tough and it wasn't easy, she really showed herself to be a class act. I'm sure I'll hate her again next week, but .. goddamn it, well done, McPhee. Also, someone up there speculated Karen dying, and I really don't think it's gonna happen, but if she does, I'll try to remember her as she was at the opening of Bombshell.
#1898
Posted: 4/22/13 at 12:04am
Will Tom and Kyle be up against each other?
For the best score TONY?
For the best score TONY?
#1899
Posted: 4/22/13 at 12:07am
OMG, of course! It's like the final act of play where everything FINALLY starts coming together!
Tickets From $73
Tickets From $89
Tickets From $89
Tickets From $65