New PASSION recording- Page 2

[PianoMann]

Posted: 6/27/13 at 9:06am

Terrific post, qolbinau, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts! I certainly agree with almost all of your points. The book certainly has a lot of flaws, without a doubt, but the score is just so beautiful, and I love that Sondheim wrote it as an operetta, that I tend to overlook it's shortcomings and just enjoy the score.

[muscle23ftl]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 10:55am

I must say, Rebecca Luker is just not good in this recording. I wish it had been Melissa, but if she wasn't available, then they should have let Amy Justman record this, she was much better than Rebecca. Melissa Errico was stunning in this and sang the role better than anyone else.

[ljay889]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 12:11pm

Justman's vocals couldn't come to close to Luker's. She cracked a few times when I saw her.

[tazber]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 12:26pm

I'm planning on listening to it this weekend. I want to dedicate enough time where I can really listen to it without distractions.

[GilmoreGirlO2]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 1:58pm

Thanks for your post, qolbinau. I haven’t gotten my copy yet, but am intrigued to see if I hear the same things as you from the new recording.

I don't believe a very good looking man who has tasted the flesh of good looking women could ever fall in love with Fosca. I mean, regardless of her dying, ugly body and face - what in her personality does he find attractive? Is there a single moment that Giorgio and Fosca have together where they have fun or a good time together?

I agree that, especially without physically watching a production, this ending can sometimes be hard to believe. However, with the right actors and directors in place, I think it can be pulled off and supported by the text.

I think there are two important things to consider in Giorgio’s change of heart, the first being that, although he has been with a beautiful woman, look at the entire situation of that relationship: everything was limited, she was with another man, and she wouldn’t run off with Giorgio when he wanted to. This doesn’t bode well for Giorgio’s impression of beautiful women. Sure, it was exciting at first, but affairs of this nature (and one that he was so deeply into) can wear on a person. In fact, Fosca’s ugliness may actually become ATTRACTIVE to him, simply because she is not physically beautiful (and the opposite of Clara).

The second thing is that, although “playing hard to get” is often considered attractive, there is something to be said for someone so blatantly (and fiercely) wanting you. It’s flattering and can often be hard to resist. Fosca is an extreme case, yes, but I know I have seen friends of mine suddenly become interested in people because they have found out that person is interested in them. While most would probably run away from the extent to which Fosca wants Giorgio (as he does at first), when he weighs it up against his situation with Clara, Fosca’s affection can become all the more appealing. Not necessarily in a sexual way, but just meaning so much to someone when he feels like he is not a priority to Clara. In his relationship with Clara, she, essentially, held the upper hand. She called the shots. If their relationship was going to go any further, she would have to make the decision and take the action. Feeling like your partner has more power in a relationship can create a great resentment. With this brewing in Giorgio, now juxtapose his position with Clara to his position with Fosca. He has all the power with Fosca and knows she will love him to her dying day. That never-ending devotion can be extremely alluring, especially in the face of such painful uncertainty of another relationship.

I also think the fact that Giorgio knows Fosca is dying can change his perspective of the situation (whether he knows it or not). He is clearly in a state of extreme emotions between Fosca’s unrelenting love, Clara’s inability to commit, etc. Not only might more sympathy for Fosca abound in Giorgio, but there may have been a small part of him that knew he would not have to commit his entire life to Fosca. If she was to live a full life, he might not have been so eager to avow his love for her (I think this is all subconscious though and not meant to be manipulative in any way).

There is also a part of me that wants to believe Giorgio and Fosca truly connected on an emotional and intellectual level, as well. While he may not have been physically attracted to her, they were able to discuss books, something clearly important to them both. Maybe he felt after how it ended with Clara, he needed to place less importance on looks.

And, this is why I love Sondheim shows. So much to explore and discuss and everyone may get something different than everyone else out of his musicals.

[dreaming]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 2:55pm

GilmoreGirl02-That is an excellent post. I love Passion and find your insights most fascinating.

Regarding Clara-I find her line "Would you still love me if I was free?" very poignant. She is like a beautiful, exotic bird in a way-forbidden love has a way of being more appealing sometimes than love with someone who's available. He also states that 'it was fine' (their love) "I was yours and you were mine". He got sick of being in a relationship with someone who was just taking and never gave anything in return. She in fact balks when he asks her to make a sacrifice for him. (Love is about that.)

And Fosca...makes the ultimate sacrifice. I think he understands by the end that love is not about physical beauty or the physical so much as it is about sacrifice and a willingness to put someone else's needs and wants ahead of your own. He also overcomes what I feel is vanity to see what Fosca is willing to do for him (and I think she in a way knows him better than he knows himself).

[LuminousBeing]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 3:32pm

GilmoreGirl and Dreaming - great posts! I agree with all your points. :)

I'd like to add these few thoughts, in no particular order, that for me are clues to the question of "how could Giorgio's love transfer from someone so beautiful to someone so ugly?" Hopefully, people here will find them interesting and/or useful.

1.) Giorgio and Clara sing, "How quickly pity leads to love." Giorgio was pitied by Clara at first, which is what lead to their beginning their attentions to each other; Giorgio, primed for pity to turn into passion, felt so sorry for Fosca that he couldn't help but react to her the way Clara reacted to him, despite (perhaps even because of) Fosca's behavior.

2.) Fosca's status as his commanding officer's cousin meant that she and Giorgio spent time together in a "limited" capacity. Giorgio was limited by his inability to refuse Fosca's company, as well as an inability to take their relationship to a physical level (both by her status and her illness). So Giorgio, a young man already love-addled by a woman he cannot have, is now forced to spend a great deal of time attending to another woman he cannot have. Giorgio seems to be generally attracted to unattainable extremes.

3.) "They hear drums; we hear music." While Clara may offer powerful (passionate) sexual attractiveness, she and Giorgio don't talk about anything other than their love, their secret, their bodies, and when they'll meet next. Fosca is capable of discussing things like Rousseau, when she's in the right state of mind. Giorgio doesn't really belong in the military, but in a salon. Ditto for Fosca, and despite her appearance, Giorgio does begin to see how much their souls have in common.

4.) "I will live, and I would die for you." The train scene is absolutely pivotal. Giorgio has just outright told Fosca that she is making him ILL--that her presence and behavior has a massive effect (power) over him. When she reveals not only that she's "interested," but that she would give her LIFE for Giorgio if he asked, Giorgio begins to realize just how deeply the two of them could grow to love each other. "Would Clara give her life for yours? I would. Happily. In the end, you'll finally see what is beautiful about me." Fosca is telling Giorgio that she understands that she's ugly, and oppressive, and a challenge, but that the two of them could share something even more real, more intense, more PASSIONATE than Giorgio and Clara.

4.) The show is entitled "Passion," not "Rational Love Brought About by Commonalities and Appropriate Physical Attraction." Giorgio doesn't really LOVE either Clara or Fosca: he feels strong, passionate attraction and care for both of them, for diametrically opposite reasons (almost so opposite that they amount to the same thing).

[GilmoreGirlO2]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 4:14pm

Love reading your insights, dreaming and Luminous.

The show is entitled "Passion," not "Rational Love Brought About by Commonalities and Appropriate Physical Attraction."

Great point. How many of us can completely explain our actions or feelings in times of extreme emotions?

Fosca is capable of discussing things like Rousseau, when she's in the right state of mind. Giorgio doesn't really belong in the military, but in a salon. Ditto for Fosca, and despite her appearance, Giorgio does begin to see how much their souls have in common.

This is what I was getting at when saying that I do think Giorgio and Fosca do have a connection on an emotional and intellectual level. I love this about their pairing.

And, I completely agree when talking about Giorgio recognizing the sacrifice that Fosca would make (has made) for Giorgio and him seeing what a special and unique gift that is. Clara refuses to run away with Giorgio, yet Giorgio knows without a doubt that Fosca would easily give her life for him. After being hurt by Clara and her being unable to make a sacrifice that seems like small potatoes in comparison to what Fosca would give, I imagine the appreciation that Giorgio feels for Fosca (and the comfort of knowing there is at least one human being out there who values your life more than their own) is indescribable. An appreciation strong enough for such a change of heart to occur.

[dreaming]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 4:38pm

"And, I completely agree when talking about Giorgio recognizing the sacrifice that Fosca would make (has made) for Giorgio and him seeing what a special and unique gift that is. Clara refuses to run away with Giorgio, yet Giorgio knows without a doubt that Fosca would easily give her life for him. After being hurt by Clara and her being unable to make a sacrifice that seems like small potatoes in comparison to what Fosca would give, I imagine the appreciation that Giorgio feels for Fosca (and the comfort of knowing there is at least one human being out there who values your life more than their own) is indescribable. An appreciation strong enough for such a change of heart to occur."

Yes, indeed. Also, Giorgio himself wrestles with his own demons about what love really is. He wants the excitement and sensuality with Clara at the beginning. Clara isn't completely devoid of my pity (she certainly wasn't in the revival-I saw Errico in the role and I did feel something for her Clara), however, when asked to put someone else's desires above her own (to essentially give her life up for his by leaving her husband), she balks. (Fosca's line about whether Clara would give up her life for his is quite prophetic here.)

The final letter demonstrates what Giorgio has learned (as does "No One Has Ever Loved Me")-that love 'isn't something scheduled in advance, you can't just try it out, what's love unless it's unconditional, love doesn't give a d*mn about tomorrow, and neither do I!" (and then in "No One Has Ever Loved Me" love "isn't pretty or safe or easy").

Giorgio really understands that love isn't based only on the physical by the end but on the spiritual/soul mate aspect (Fosca and he really do think a lot alike when she's capable of it) and the willingness to put someone else's needs ahead of your own (that is a big part of love-it can't be selfish-Fosca ends up giving her life for his-saying "to die loved is to have lived"). The show works so well because the characters are so complex and there are so many interpretations.

[DEClarke]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 8:53pm

Here is my review...
Click Here to Read: PASSION (2013 New York Cast Recording) is Stunningly Lavish and Ornately Elegant

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 9:15pm

Anyway, in Happiness I really find the line - "unhappiness can be seductive" so cringeworthy and unbelievable….I mean really? I don't see how it can be seductive at ALL. People don't like unhappiness. I wonder if this is meant to be foreshadowing Giorgio falling for Fosca, but still. It just doesn't make sense to me. "We'll make love with our words" - lol cringeeee so corny. It is said so seriously and dramatically obviously, so it's not meant to be ironic or anything.

I had a lot more to say, but the show has been wonderfully defended by dreaming and others.

So let me just address your point that "People don't like unhappiness": in fact, people who have no reason to expect happiness may well find unhappiness more comfortable than false hopes. Fosca has dwelt in unhappiness because she preferred it to disappointment, but the action of the play is her great leap to grasp for a happiness she hasn't thought possible since the incident with her bigamist husband.

Others have explained how Giorgio falls for a love so all-consuming and real it transcends mere physical attraction.

The comic version of the "Ugly Duckling" aspect of the story is called ONCE UPON A MATTRESS, which nobody questions.

[karloskar2]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 10:46pm

Clara's main reason for refusing to leave with Giorgio is that she would lose custody of her child if she left her husband for another man, so she has no choice but to remain in a loveless marriage. Giorgio is pretty immature to expect her to make that sacrifice.
Fosca tells us that she was happy as a child and was told by her parents that she was beautiful. Although she realizes herself that she is no beauty, it is only when her lying abusive husband tells her that she is ugly that she starts to believe it. This is the starting point for her convulsions and illnesses. The idea that Fosca is some kind of grotesque figure that handsome young Giorgio could only be appalled by does not ring true to me.She is sick, and her behaviour is quite unreasonable at times, but Giorgio learns to understand her better than anyone else ever has, and it is that compassion and empathy that leads to love. The train scene is the turning point of the play, but the confrontation with the Colonel is also very revealing. The fact that Giorgio would rather fight a duel than accept the Colonel's assertion that Fosca is too ugly to be desirable is the crux of the story. Even those who claim to care for Fosca (her cousin and the doctor), do not understand her and love her the way Giorgio does. Judy Kuhn's low key interpretation of the role seems to make Fosca a bit less freaky than either Donna Murphy or Maria Friedman, and helps to make the relationship more believable. Ryan Silverman is strong enough as Giorgio to remind us that he is the main protagonist not Fosca, which has not always been the case in previous productions.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 11:24pm

^^^^Yes, of course, Giorgio shouldn't expect Clara to give up her child. But who's to say he really does?

That we find Clara's refusal to give up her child completely sympathetic is just one more element that gives the piece its richness.

During the final exchange between Giorgio and Clara, Giorgio is making a point in suggesting Clara run away with him. I think he fully expects she will decline. He is contrasting Clara's unwillingness to give up her child with Fosca's willingness to give up her life.

[binau]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 11:29pm

"So let me just address your point that "People don't like unhappiness": in fact, people who have no reason to expect happiness may well find unhappiness more comfortable than false hopes."

Yes maybe particularly in terms of Fosca, but in terms of that line, the implication is that Clara saw an unhappy Giorgio in a park and found his unhappiness seductive. That seems rather silly to me...

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 11:32pm

I don't find it "silly", but I admit "How quickly pity leads to love" has always stood out to me. But yet again, that's why this one-act musical seems so rich to some of us: because lines like that leave us thinking whenever we see the play or listen to the CD.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 7/3/13 at 11:40pm

I feel like I've discussed and (mostly) defended this show so much on here, that everyone knows my points--but I loved reading this discussion (And grrr, I don't have the CD yet.) How long does the recording run, BTW?

However, Gaveston already mentioned this but the one comment Qolbinau, you made, that I simply can't even slightly see agreeing with is cringing at the "Unhappiness can be seductive" line. I think it absolutely can. (Just look at some terrible, ****ed up relationships and how enraptured in them a couple can get for just one example.)

FOr Clara, I think she was unhappy, or unfulfilled in her life when she saw an unhappy Giorgio--and so she was drawn to that due to their similar state. If that makes sense...

I sorta can see how some of it can seem like camp. Both Lapine and Sondheim tried hard to make it sound like the 19th cnetury novel it was--and Lapine in particular does the same thing he did in Act I of Sunday which was to use slightly ornate or even odd sounding language so that it does register as them speaking in a foreign tongue.

I remember when Passion came out, the Sondheim fnas who were disappointed, were upset that his lyrics weren't full of clever word-play, at least not in the way they expected (and some felt that the Soldier's interludes were meant to remedy this, though I agree they aren't particularly clever.)

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 7/4/13 at 12:53pm

"I am almost positive Norm was hired to just sing on the cast recording as they did not have an understudy for Roger."

Mark Hardy was the understudy.

Similar thing happened with A GRAND NIGHT FOR SINGING. Marty Vidnivic was ill and instead of using the understudy, Jim Hindman, for the recording, they brought in Gregg Edelman.

[indytallguy]

Posted: 7/5/13 at 11:30am

On my third listen through this new recording, and it really is sublime. Flight cancellations prevented me from seeing the show in person, and now I am regretting that disappointment even more.

I need to go back and listen again to the OBC, as well as the Lincoln Center DVD, but I feel like the emotion from all three leads is more present in this recording. And I love how Kuhn's Fosca seems more manipulative and emotionally pitiful and not just physically pitiful.

I admit to not "getting" the original Broadway production, but really fell in love with the show after seeing the Kennedy Center's effort in 2002. The CSC production sounds like it rivaled if not surpassed that high bar.

[artscallion]

Posted: 7/5/13 at 12:37pm

I agree that the line "unhappiness can be seductive...pity leads to love" is actually a very insightful line. I know several people who are what I call saviors. They can't help falling for a helpless/hopeless sad puppy type. They can't resist "saving" them from their unhappiness. People find all kinds of f'd up things seductive.

These things often have more to do with power and manipulation and satisfying one's own needs than they do with love. Along those lines, I wonder if someone can tell me what exactly it is that Fosca gives up for Giorgio? I keep hearing how her love is more selfless and sacrificing than Clara's But I can't think of one thing that she does FOR him. Or one thing that she gives up FOR him. It seems to me that everything she does is for herself.

She follows him around against his wishes, grabs him under the table when she knows he can't do anything about it because his boss is right there, threatens him that she has the power to make his life easy or difficult because of her relation to his boss, forces him to write her a letter, I could go on. Everything she does causes him pain yet she does it anyway. Why? Because of HER need to have him. I don't think she loves him at all. She wants him, at any expense to him. Yet has no apparent interest in what he wants.

But then again, there's a reason the show is called Passion, not Love.

Updated On: 7/5/13 at 12:37 PM

[artscallion]

Posted: 7/5/13 at 2:00pm

I received the recording today and have to say that I agree with much of qolbinau's opinion of it, as compared to the original. I find the performances lackluster and find they don't come close to the originals. These very competent singers feel as though they are singing pretty songs, well. Whereas Murphy/Shea/Mazy sounded as if they were living through these beautiful songs. I found the orchestrations thin, and the general pace to be plodding and dull. It only made me pull out the OBCR to wash the dullness away.

Note that Passion is one of my all time favorite pieces...but not when recorded as this was.

Updated On: 7/5/13 at 02:00 PM

[morosco]

Posted: 7/7/13 at 7:48pm

Fosca's mother was played by a man in this production?

Fosca reminds me of Jodi Arias.

I miss the song in scene thirteen "No One Has Ever Loved Me" ("Don't you see what she's endured...") that was added for London. It was sung after the "Farewell Letter" by Giorgio in his confrontation with Doctor Tambourri.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 7/7/13 at 7:53pm

^Yes. Fosca's Mother and the Mistress were played by men.

[ljay889]

Posted: 7/7/13 at 7:54pm

Kuhn and Errico (later Justman) were the only female actors in the production. It worked wonderfully live.