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#51

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/27/17 at 7:07pm

EM55 said: "...Let's be real, there is an actual reason most people haven't actually ever read all of War and Peace...

"

Yes, there is a reason. "It's a complicated Russian novel; everyone has nine different names."

But once one is familiar with Chekhov or Dostoyevsky and becomes comfortable with Russian naming conventions, one discovers that War and Peace is a real page-turner. It is the model for Gone with the Wind, another long (albeit inferior) novel, but one that 100 million or so Americans have read.

If you don't like Great Comet, fine, but don't blame Tolstoy. His Anna Karenina is widely considered the greatest novel ever written.

#52

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/27/17 at 7:16pm

Obviously, there are shows being listed by others that I adore, and it breaks my heart a little that people hated them. So, knowing that I'll also break a few hearts, I have three from this season alone.

The Great Comet: I saw it at Ars Nova and left at intermission. I was miserable, but I also was sick. Then came the raves. Eventually, I thought so many people loved it that I must have missed something because I wasn't feeling well. So I went to see it on Broadway. And I still couldn't warm up to it. Maybe because of how awkwardly they pulled just one chunk out of a great novel. Maybe because it was so aggressive in its need for you to love it. Maybe because performers who I have loved elsewhere (Grey, Steele) and performers who I thought shined with talent (Benton, Groban) all seemed equally at sea in a show that is aggressive in the spectacle but leaves me cold as a fish.

Hello, Dolly: Was this a perfectly lovely revival of an old chestnut? Yes. Did I enjoy myself? Sure, mostly. But I also think this is a dated, corny show and that Bette's performance relies almost entirely on how much one already loves Bette. I adore Bette Midler. But damned if I could find anything in her performance that was making the crowd leap out of their seats. This is one I trulu think is good but absolutely overrated.

Come from Away: Okay, folks. I couldn't warm to Comet. I thought Dolly was merely good. But Come from Away...I just can't. I hated this show with every fiber of my being. The choreography is an embarrassment to the stage. The music was unpleasant at best. No characters were given any time to actually develop so they were just "woman whose son you totally know is dead" or "Muslim who's totally going to be humiliated but we'll move past it quick because we don't want to focus on anything negative." I understand wanting to celebrate the spirit of goodwill that occurred in this town, but any time they even approached the seriousness of the tragedy outside or any of the characters were personally devastated, they hurtled along into another folk song and just barreled thoughtlessly forward. And the only solo goes to a female pilot whose story is essentially irrelevant to those days but let's her wedge in "I can't believe they made the thing I love into a weapon." Which of course reminds us that this is sad, so it just stops there and moves on.i found the whole thing cheap, tasteless, shallow, and hideously staged. One of the worst things I've seen in years.

#53

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/27/17 at 7:38pm

GavestonPS said: "EM55 said: "...Let's be real, there is an actual reason most people haven't actually ever read all of War and Peace...

"

Yes, there is a reason. "It's a complicated Russian novel; everyone has nine different names."

But once one is familiar with Chekhov or Dostoyevsky and becomes comfortable with Russian naming conventions, one discovers that War and Peace is a real page-turner. It is the model for Gone with the Wind, another long (albeit inferior) novel, but one that 100 million or so Americans have read.

If you don't like Great Comet, fine, but don't blame Tolstoy. His Anna Karenina is widely considered the greatest novel ever written.

"

Fair enough statement. And I think your point is applicable to people who say they don't like Shakespeare for instance. With a working knowledge you can become quite engrossed.

I personally I am not a fan of Russian literature, and funny you mention it because I hate Gone with the Wind actually and have always thought it was highly overrated haha, but I do humbly apologize to Tolstoy.

My criticism should have been directed towards Malloy and Chavkin who adapted it into a convoluted mess, cast it badly and thought they could distract us with flash and set design and somehow managed to incorporate a neon rave scene that gave me seizures, something I doubt was in the original Tolstoy text.

#54

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/27/17 at 8:01pm

ChildofEarth said: "Once - I just...there's nothing there.

Dear Evan Hansen - The longer you think critically about this show, the worse it gets. The score isn't memorable at all and sounds like something the whiny boys in high school and college created. I think Ben Platt gets away with a lot of overacting and overreacting because he cries and snots a lot (and his voice is nothing special, IMO). Add that to the fact that there isn't a single redeemable character nor anything that will make sense in about 10 years...and I don't get the hype. I think we were too eager for "the next Hamilton."

"

Ben Platt's voice on Colbert (or was it a different late night show?) singing For Forever the other night was...not good. I get that he is doing 8 shows a week and is exhausted, but he did not sound good at all.

#55

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/27/17 at 8:08pm

^^^ Gone with the Wind is most definitely overrated by the public. It's akin to a long-form Harlequin Romance with condescending attitudes toward African-Americans. The book is the primary purveyor of the "moonlight and magnolias" myth of the Old South. (Most if not all of Scarlett's slaves voluntarily stay on at Tara after Emancipation because, Lordy, they were all treated so well!)

But critics and academics don't value it highly, in my experience.

War and Peace, on the other hand, is a masterful achievement, a comprehensive portrait of all levels of society in a massive country in the middle of great change. (It is a wonderful companion to Anna Karenina, which takes place 40 years later, IIRC.)

I will readily admit, however, that W&P defeated me when I was 15. After rereading the first five pages several times trying to understand the names, I gave up. (This is one reason I like the opening number of Great Comet.) I am so glad I revisited the book at age 55.

I do prefer the Broadway recording to the off-Broadway. The increased clarity of sound helps, but I haven't seen the show and wasn't quarreling with your appraisal of it.

*****

Babe, Platt sang "For Forever" on Colbert; you have that right. To my ear, he sounded fine for a live performance, and I've played the recording at least once a day for several months. Personally, I don't think he has a great voice, but he uses it especially effectively in DEH.

I guess I'm just not up on current pop music, because I find the score mostly tuneful, rhythmic and inventive. If I have any complaint it's just that the middle of the playlist--"No One Deserves to be Forgotten", "You Will Be Found", etc.--begins to sound like the same theme repeated in different songs.

Updated On: 5/27/17 at 08:08 PM

#56

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/27/17 at 8:20pm

GavestonPS said: "^^^ Gone with the Wind is most definitely overrated by the public. It's akin to a long-form Harlequin Romance with condescending attitudes toward African-Americans. The primary purveyor of the "moonlight and magnolias" myth of the Old South. (Most if not all of Scarlett's slaves voluntarily stay on at Tara after Emancipation because, Lordy, they were all treated so well!)

But critics and academics don't value it highly, in my experience.

War and Peace, on the other hand, is a masterful achievement, a comprehensive portrait of all levels of society in a massive country in the middle of great change. (It is a wonderful companion to Anna Karenina, which takes place 40 years later, IIRC.)

I will readily admit, however, that W&P defeated me when I was 15. After rereading the first five pages several times trying to understand the names, I gave up. (This is one reason I like the opening number of Great Comet.) I am so glad I revisited the book at age 55.)

I do prefer the Broadway recording to the off-Broadway. The increased clarity of sound helps, but I haven't seen the show and wasn't quarreling with your appraisal of it.

All excellent points on GWTW.

No quarrel taken, I appreciate your thoughtful defense of W&P. And I will in your honor give it another go and see if my perceptions have changed. (I admit I didn't get far years ago when I tried). But nothing is going to make me like the show, I am still mad I don't have those 2+ hours of my life back haha.

#57

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/27/17 at 8:27pm

EM55, I will admit the recording is growing on me. But the video previews available on line look like sheer chaos when they are obviously trying to convey "excitement". Of course, by the time it gets to my coast, who knows what form it will take?

#58

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/27/17 at 8:58pm

GavestonPS said: "EM55, I will admit the recording is growing on me. But the video previews available on line look like sheer chaos when they are obviously trying to convey "excitement". Of course, by the time it gets to my coast, who knows what form it will take?

Chaos is a good description in my opinion. I got to the end of act one and was actually questioning if I could make it through the second. The strobe light rave scene seriously was painful physically to sit through, it goes on way too long! (and other than a small sign as I entered the theater, I don't recall a warning there were strobes, and they were extreme. Someone can correct me if I am wrong about that, if there were more warnings they didn't stand out to me)

I will give credit however as it is due to the ensemble of that show because they are insanely talented and work that room like crazy! My issue is the principle cast is not nearly as charismatic. And also the set is very impressive. I just am not sure there is actually a show under all of that. All sizzle no steak to me.

#59

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/27/17 at 9:10pm

EM55 said: "The strobe light rave scene seriously was painful physically to sit through, it goes on way too long! (and other than a small sign as I entered the theater, I don't recall a warning there were strobes, and they were extreme. Someone can correct me if I am wrong about that, if there were more warnings they didn't stand out to me)"

This is actually one of the things that I remember a clear warning about - I don't know where you sat, but I saw it once from the orchestra and once from the mezzanine, and both times a cast member came to our section before the show to tell us to keep our feet out of the aisles, to feel free to look around and behind us during the show, and to cover our eyes during the strobe light scene in Act 1 if we find ourselves feeling physically uncomfortable.

I feel mostly the same as you about the show - someone mentioned the Emperor's New Clothes in regard to Come From Away, and that's exactly how I feel about the Great Comet score. But yeah - I felt adequately prepared for the strobe lights.

Updated On: 5/27/17 at 09:10 PM

#60

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/27/17 at 9:20pm

I feel mostly the same as you about the show - someone mentioned the Emperor's New Clothes in regard to Come From Away, and that's exactly how I feel about the Great Comet score. But yeah - I felt adequately prepared for the strobe lights.

"

In TGC's defense, I think its score actually has an audience – I saw it with my two best friends, and one of them and I love eclectic, amelodic music, and seeing the show/listening to the cast recording was a field day for us. The other friend was visibly sighing in relief when we got to No One Else, the first "normal" song in the show. It's a very divisive score that's going to be hit or miss from person to person depending on your taste (though interestingly enough, my father – who has been listening to classic rock for the last forty years – loved it, but I digress).

On the other hand, I just can't really see anyone getting into the CFA score; it's very basic and there's nothing ear-catching about it. Though one could make the same argument for it as I did for TGC, I suppose.

#61

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/27/17 at 9:32pm

leighmiserables said: "
I feel mostly the same as you about the show - someone mentioned the Emperor's New Clothes in regard to Come From Away, and that's exactly how I feel about the Great Comet score. But yeah - I felt adequately prepared for the strobe lights.

"

In TGC's defense, I think its score actually has an audience – I saw it with my two best friends, and one of them and I love eclectic, amelodic music, and seeing the show/listening to the cast recording was a field day for us. The other friend was visibly sighing in relief when we got to No One Else, the first "normal" song in the show. It's a very divisive score that's going to be hit or miss from person to person depending on your taste (though interestingly enough, my father – who has been listening to classic rock for the last forty years – loved it, but I digress).

On the other hand, I just can't really see anyone getting into the CFA score; it's very basic and there's nothing ear-catching about it. Though one could make the same argument for it as I did for TGC, I suppose.

I personally loved CFA, including it's score, but to be fair I love the type of music it employed in the first place. It makes me sad that so many hate it, though I still understand and respect those opinions. For me the Emperor's Clothes moment was DEH- saw it today and, while impressed with some aspects, most of the time the audience laughed or cheered I was deeply uncomfortable, and as someone with anxiety and autism the show ended with me wanting to kill myself due to the shows messages. Only seeing Hello Dolly is curing that feeling now, thankfully.

#62

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/27/17 at 10:00pm

JudyDenmark said: "EM55 said: "The strobe light rave scene seriously was painful physically to sit through, it goes on way too long! (and other than a small sign as I entered the theater, I don't recall a warning there were strobes, and they were extreme. Someone can correct me if I am wrong about that, if there were more warnings they didn't stand out to me)"

This is actually one of the things that I remember a clear warning about - I don't know where you sat, but I saw it once from the orchestra and once from the mezzanine, and both times a cast member came to our section before the show to tell us to keep our feet out of the aisles, to feel free to look around and behind us during the show, and to cover our eyes during the strobe light scene in Act 1 if we find ourselves feeling physically uncomfortable.

I feel mostly the same as you about the show - someone mentioned the Emperor's New Clothes in regard to Come From Away, and that's exactly how I feel about the Great Comet score. But yeah - I felt adequately prepared for the strobe lights.

"

Thank you Judy Denmark, we were actually seated in the box and don't recall any kind of real prep from the person who seated us, just here's your playbillI and don't lay anything on the stairs in front of you. I don't normally mind a strobe effect, don't like it but it doesn't usually go on for as long as it does in GC. I had a headache for hours after that. I hope they are more consistent warning people. it could be an issue for some I'm sure.

#63

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/27/17 at 10:33pm

"Bette's performance relies almost entirely on how much one already loves Bette. I adore Bette Midler. But damned if I could find anything in her performance that was making the crowd leap out of their seats."

I have tickets for "Hello Dolly" in September and I am quite sure I will really enjoy it and it will be neat seeing Bette Midler. I have a feeling I am going to agree with you 100% regarding her performance.

#64

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/28/17 at 2:53am

Wow, a lot of Come From Away hate on here lol, never heard any of the music personally.

I personally love Gone With The Wind, but I understand why some don't.

#65

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/28/17 at 3:12am

Gone With The Wind is great, but isn't without flaws. Also, yeah CFA is dreadful and the score is absolute garbage. God the positive response that, that show has recieved is ridiculous. It's obviously inferior to DEH, GC, Groundhog Day, and even War Paint. I hate hearing people say that it's so relevant when any even slightly upsetting subject is skimmed over to present us with a big celtic dance number about how hospitable Canadians are. Ah yes, let's not even mention the thousands of people killed. Let's just dance our troubles away! It's like Christopher Guest wrote a tasteless musical about 9/11.

I love Hello, Dolly! and I adore this magical new production, but it is true that it really doesn't have much substance at all. It's just good fun.

Updated On: 5/28/17 at 03:12 AM

#66

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/28/17 at 3:14am

Dear Evan Hansen, Once, Come From Away.

#67

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/28/17 at 4:03am

Once. Sleep inducing

most "hits" from The UK-Matilda, Billy Eliot and cats have some of the worst production numbers ever seen on stage.

Comet could not stay after 1 act. Horrible music and annoying lighting.

Next To Normal. Annoying screaming if every song

Sunset- a big bore with 2 good songs.

Miss Saigon-a deadly first act and a loud helicopter.

#68

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/28/17 at 4:03am

#69

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/28/17 at 5:05am

With Once, Kinky Boots, Dear Evan Hansen, Book Of Mormon, and Geat Comet being mentioned numerouslly, there seems to be a lot of agreement on here That doesn't happen a lot lol.

#70

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/28/17 at 7:10am

icecreambenjamin said: "Gone With The Wind is great, but isn't without flaws. Also, yeah CFA is dreadful and the score is absolute garbage. God the positive response that, that show has recieved is ridiculous. It's obviously inferior to DEH, GC, Groundhog Day, and even War Paint. I hate hearing people say that it's so relevant when any even slightly upsetting subject is skimmed over to present us with a big celtic dance number about how hospitable Canadians are. Ah yes, let's not even mention the thousands of people killed. Let's just dance our troubles away! It's like Christopher Guest wrote a tasteless musical about 9/11.

I love Hello, Dolly! and I adore this magical new production, but it is true that it really doesn't have much substance at all. It's just good fun.

"It's one thing to personally hate the show, but to outright call it "absolute" and."obviously" inferior is going too far in my opinion, to the point of acting like your own tastes and opinions are law and trump all others. Just because you didn't like it doesn't make it deserves facto bad. Otherwise I could say Sunday in the Park with George is obvious trash just because I personally hated it. The fact that for many, including myself, CFA was personally better than deh, comet, etc. Automatically makes it not "obviously" bad. I respect your conflicting taste and opinion, but frankly your word usage in framing said taste as objective facts bothers me.

Also I'll agree with others on Once I personally found it just completely boring. Nothing wrong with those who love it if course, but I personally just don't get it.

Updated On: 5/28/17 at 07:10 AM

#71

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/28/17 at 10:12am

Updated On: 5/28/17 at 10:12 AM

#72

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/28/17 at 10:53am

MATILDA

MEMPHIS

SUNSET BOULEVARD

LES MISERABLES

CATS

MISS SAIGON

SPRING AWAKENING

NEWSIES

WAR PAINT

I especially abhor those over-stuffed, melodramatic, loud, obnoxious Mackintosh/Lloyd Webber/Boubil/Schonberg monstrosities.

Updated On: 5/28/17 at 10:53 AM

#73

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/28/17 at 12:04pm

Interesting to see Newsies mentioned so frequently. Because I concur. My friend and I both looked at each other with a "meh" come intermission. There was this great dance number at the end of act one, but what led up to that was sort of uneventful. Something just felt missing. Either in the characters, or the storyline, can't really put my finger on it. Maybe I was expecting too much based on what I had "heard" about it.

The other one that I agree with is Kinky Boots. Totally average. And the moment when Lola comes out for her number, I really felt nothing by that point.....to borrow from a Chorus Line. It seemed sort of an "I am what I am" number but really didn't hit the mark for me. Been there, seen that. Umpteen times now.

Equally interesting though to see DEH and HD mentioned. Including their lead performers. Especially considering the love they're getting elsewhere. Seems that Platt's performance (and voice?) don't resonate with some after all, even though he seems to be the baron of Broadway right now. Similarly, the belle, Bette's performance is not so much hitting the mark for some.... as much as it is about just seeing Bette.

#74

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/28/17 at 1:08pm

ChildofEarth: I don't know why I'm bothering to defend CFA because you take EVERY opportunity that even slightly presents itself to shoehorn your hatred of it into conversation (the War Paint Recording thread was particularly crafty, bravo) most (I believe) because it is challenging DEH but I've got to say this - if you don't understand why they didn't focus on those who were taken on 9/11, you have completely missed the point of the show.

No I don't hate it because it is challenging DEH. I hate it because I truly think that it is a rotten show that, for some reason unknown, has gathered a lot of attention on here as being literally the greatest thing since sliced bread. The show has a poor score that War Paint should have been nominated over (which is why I was discussing it in the War Paint thread) and is just a precession of stereotypes and caricatures of real people mixed with poor choreography and a, frankly, distasteful, unplifting(???) ending that just disregards the whole actual attack in order to really get the idea of how nice Canadians are across. I shouldn't have to conclude every sentence that I type with a nice"IMO." If you want to have your opinion, that's fine. I don't give a flying ****. I've just noticed that people really cannot make their own opinions. They are told that CFA is amazing and beautiful and uplifting and yes it may be hopeful, but that doesn't mean that the actual quality of the writing should be ignored. The fact that it has gotten the response that it has is mind-boggling, but if you don't care about the actual quality of the show and want to tell me about how "important" it is (why because a two-dimensional Muslim character is harassed for literally two seconds before never being heard from again. Yeah sure. Call me with that story when you have actual characters that aren't just caricatures) then be my guest, but I'm allowed to tell you that I think that it's an overrated hot mess of a show.

Updated On: 5/28/17 at 01:08 PM

#75

Overrated Musicals Of The Last Ten Years

Posted: 5/28/17 at 1:28pm

Something Rotten: I wanted so badly to enjoy it- clever concept, great cast. But I found it so thoroughly grating and unenjoyable. The jokes were musical references in the place of jokes, and the cast pushed them all so hard that I had a headache. Some of the laziest writing I've ever seen.

Dear Evan Hansen: I'm glad that people have found that it resonates with them, but for me it was borderline offensive. It's a nasty take on suicide, anxiety, and mental illness that relies on cheap manipulation to get the audience to cry. The score is largely forgettable, and the book is full of plot holes and has a massive cop-out of an ending. Given the thinkpiece-y nature of the Internet, I'm genuinely surprised no one has written a piece about how questionable the show's handling of mental illness is. I've spoken to a lot of my friends who've seen the show, and this is something I've heard more than a few times. I wanted to love it, but I think it's absolutely awful.

I am a firm believer in serendipity- all the random pieces coming together in one wonderful moment, when suddenly you see what their purpose was all along.

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