Patti LuPone called a privileged, racially microaggressive bully by Hell's Kitchen cast member - Page 14

[JasonC3]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 3:14pm

binau said: "Can a white woman speaking their mind ever be wrong?
Can a black woman speaking their mind ever be wrong?"

Regardless of the identities of those in question, a definitive right or wrong generally requires applying an objective standard to the behavior(s) in question. 

My perception is that a fair amount of the back and forth in this thread is because people are neither applying the same standards nor are they describing the behavior(s) in question the same way; i.e. the show in the theater next door is too loud vs, the black show in the theater next door is too loud.

[Owen22]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 3:15pm

binau said: "Can a white woman speaking their mind ever be wrong?

Can a black woman speaking their mind ever be wrong?"

Oh my God why are you still talking??

[CreatureKitchen]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 3:20pm

I am begging people to let this thread die. Everything to be said has been said a dozen times. No one is going to change minds by hammering the same points over and over. This is not the forum to change minds anyways.

[binau]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 3:21pm

Owen22 said: "binau said: "Can a white woman speaking their mind ever be wrong?

Can a black woman speaking their mind ever be wrong?"

Oh my God why are you still talking??"

lol. I think it’s pretty clear from the thread that besides a couple of lingering extremists left over that the debate has already been lost (you’ve lost). We’re currently in the final moments while desperate people try and continue to clutch onto straws that have already disappeared into the ether long ago. Oh and at the same time perpetuating this madness that has probably helped get trump get re-elected too! Great work!! Nice job!! I would not be surprised if people in this thread are shills on the trump campaign team because it sure looks like you’re doing their work for them. 

Updated On: 11/7/24 at 03:21 PM

[binau]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 3:31pm

No doubt THE ENEMY WITHIN are the box office staff who point out the objective reality of the sound levels to audience members!!!

[Georgeanddot2]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 4:07pm

You're all still talking about this?

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 6:35pm

Georgeanddot2 said: "You're all still talking about this?"

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 6:43pm

binau said: "Owen22 said: "binau said: "Can a white woman speaking their mind ever be wrong?

Can a black woman speaking their mind ever be wrong?"

Oh my God why are you still talking??"

lol. I think it’s pretty clear from the thread that besides a couple of lingering extremists left over that the debate has already been lost (you’ve lost).We’re currently in the final moments while desperate people try and continue to clutch onto straws that have already disappeared into the ether long ago. Oh and at the same time perpetuating this madness that has probably helped gettrump get re-elected too! Great work!! Nice job!! I would not be surprised if people in this thread are shills on the trump campaign team because it sure looks like you’re doing their work for them."

This country was founded on racism. From slavery to Jim Crow. Black folks never had a chance to speak up the way we do now and THAT's why people like yourself get annoyed. You call it noise. You blame us for the Trump right. Trust me, if we were silent they would still hate who they are gonna hate. We aren't doing the work for them. I'm never counting on you to be my ally. Allies listen. All you've done is talk, push back and blame. 

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 10:18pm

Ensemble1698878795 said: "binau said: "Owen22 said: "binau said: "Can a white woman speaking their mind ever be wrong?

Can a black woman speaking their mind ever be wrong?"

Oh my God why are you still talking??"

lol. I think it’s pretty clear from the thread that besides a couple of lingering extremists left over that the debate has already been lost (you’ve lost).We’re currently in the final moments while desperate people try and continue to clutch onto straws that have already disappeared into the ether long ago. Oh and at the same time perpetuating this madness that has probably helped gettrump get re-elected too! Great work!! Nice job!! I would not be surprised if people in this thread are shills on the trump campaign team because it sure looks like you’re doing their work for them."

This country was founded on racism. From slavery to Jim Crow. Black folks never had a chance to speak up the way we do now and THAT's why people like yourself get annoyed. You call it noise. You blame us for the Trump right. Trust me, if we were silent they would still hate who they are gonna hate. We aren't doing the work for them. I'm never counting on you to be my ally. Allieslisten. All you've done is talk, push back and blame."

Allies listen, and good allies listen, and offer feedback in the face of wrong.

Calling someone racist for behavior that has nothing to do with race is wrong and counterproductive to everything liberals should hold dear. Demanding that a Black woman be deemed correct just because shes a Black woman is not only insulting to Black women, it achieves nothing because no one--not even the allies who refuse to admit they think you're wrong--actually believes what you're selling, which is patently unreasonable.

This country WAS founded on ugly racism, and has a long way to go, and NONE of that progress will or should have anything to do with simply agreeing with every single boneheaded accusation of racism; on the contrary.

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 10:43pm

PipingHotPiccolo said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "binau said: "Owen22 said: "binau said: "Can a white woman speaking their mind ever be wrong?

Can a black woman speaking their mind ever be wrong?"

Oh my God why are you still talking??"

lol. I think it’s pretty clear from the thread that besides a couple of lingering extremists left over that the debate has already been lost (you’ve lost).We’re currently in the final moments while desperate people try and continue to clutch onto straws that have already disappeared into the ether long ago. Oh and at the same time perpetuating this madness that has probably helped gettrump get re-elected too! Great work!! Nice job!! I would not be surprised if people in this thread are shills on the trump campaign team because it sure looks like you’re doing their work for them."

This country was founded on racism. From slavery to Jim Crow. Black folks never had a chance to speak up the way we do now and THAT's why people like yourself get annoyed. You call it noise. You blame us for the Trump right. Trust me, if we were silent they would still hate who they are gonna hate. We aren't doing the work for them. I'm never counting on you to be my ally. Allieslisten. All you've done is talk, push back and blame."

Allies listen, and good allies listen, and offer feedback in the face of wrong.

Calling someone racist for behavior that has nothing to do with race is wrong and counterproductive to everything liberals should hold dear. Demanding that a Black woman be deemed correct just because shes a Black woman is not only insulting to Black women, it achieves nothing because no one--not even the allies who refuse to admit they think you're wrong--actually believes what you're selling, which is patently unreasonable.

This country WAS founded on ugly racism, and has a long way to go, and NONE of that progress will or should have anything to do with simply agreeing with every single boneheaded accusation of racism; on the contrary."

There’s no way you’re a POC. You all only believe our claims after we’re dead. If you can admit this country was founded on racism, perhaps there are degrees of racism, aka micro-aggressions, that you can’t comprehend bc you haven’t lived them. To call it a boneheaded accusation is dismissive and insensitive. I seriously doubt you’d say that to Kecia’’s face. There’s a lot of keyboard courage going on here. But the whiteness on this board is just as loud as this country. So…why would I expect you to listen? 

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 10:48pm

Multiple people are not only listening, they are responding and engaging, but you just keep insisting that Kecia Lewis must be right because she is a POC and so therefore we wont listen and are blind to racism. 

Again, I'd encourage you to take a beat and wonder if maybe what you're saying is just plain unreasonable, that Kecia Lewis is wrong to bring race into something that has nothing to do with it, that the people on this Broadway message board are relatively diverse and certainly bend liberal, and still find what you're saying to be insulting and silly?

OR we are all just bigots. You do you. Won't waste any more breath (though if Kecia Lewis and I were in conversation, and she called someone a racist for their music cue complaining, you can sure bet I'd respectfully explain why that makes no sense, just as countless people have tried to do with you). 

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/7/24 at 11:59pm

PipingHotPiccolo said: "Multiple people are not only listening, they are responding and engaging, but you just keep insisting that Kecia Lewis must be right because she is a POC and so therefore we wont listen and are blind to racism.

Again, I'd encourage you to take a beat and wonder if maybe what you're saying is just plain unreasonable, that Kecia Lewis is wrong to bring race into something that has nothing to do with it, that the people on this Broadway message board are relatively diverse and certainly bend liberal, and still find what you're saying to be insulting and silly?

OR we are all just bigots. You do you. Won't waste any more breath (though if Kecia Lewis and I were in conversation, and she called someone a racist for their music cue complaining, you can sure bet I'd respectfully explain why that makes no sense, just as countless people have tried to do with you)."

When a POC feels like they have encountered a racist act, micro aggressive or otherwise, the white people don’t get to decide if it’s factual or not. If you always do, then just admit you’re racist and that’s the end of that. I know you think you run everything, but you can’t enforce your opinion on someone else’s experiences. Just like when a woman experiences SA, do you tell her it “makes no sense”? Regardless to how obvious or minute it seems? It’s when POC speak up for themselves that the truth and facts become negotiable for white people. Please go comment on Kecia’s  thread with your opinions, so people can connect your ignorance with your actual name. Doubt you will.  
 

 

[MezzoDiva47]

Posted: 11/8/24 at 3:25am

Ensemble1698878795 said:

When a POC feels like they have encountered a racist act, micro aggressive or otherwise, the white people don’t get to decide if it’s factual or not.

wrong

first off you are confusing fact vs opinion

an allegation of a so-called micro-aggression is not a fact

If you always do, then just admit you’re racist and that’s the end of that.

and _you_ dont get to decide if its racist or not

sanity has returned to the landscape and you are now discovering firsthand that ppl are no longer accepting these types of brazen accusations without concrete evidence to back it up

it is this kind of nonsense that has sent the masses scurrying to the right and cursed us with another four years of trump

congratulations

ps - maybe patti lupone should alter the shows logo and  then we can get cynthia erivo to participate

[JasonC3]

Posted: 11/8/24 at 5:12am

If you reread all the posts in this thread the focus is primarily on two things:  (1) a show feeling it was being negatively affected by sound bleed from another show; and (2) how that situation was handled. Some dispassionate thoughts no doubt expressed imperfectly:

#1

Objectively, sound bleed is sound bleed regardless of the source, the focus of that production, and the race of its performers. Might sound bleed between productions be confronted more or less depending on the focus of the shows, the type/style of music, and the race of the performers?  Answering that requires speculation that likely would not be helpful in addressing this specific example.

I did a conference keynote a few months ago and in the hotel ballroom next to mine was a gospel church service with primarily Black attendees.  Noise bled through the airwall dividing our rooms and made it difficult for people to hear.  My client asked a hotel staff person to speak to the person in charge of the service and ask them to turn down the speaker volume on the band and the pastor's microphone. 

Race and faith had nothing to do with that request.  We still heard periodic noise when the choir soared (they were great) but it was not totally disruptive like the amplified sound had been.  The hotel could (and should) have prevented this problem by not scheduling two events next to each other where sound bleed was obviously going to be a challenge.

#2

When individuals have been marginalized, discriminated against, or attacked because of some aspect of their identity (race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, faith, et al) it is natural that they filter other things that happen to them through those experiences.  That doesn't mean everything that happens to them occurs because of their identity even if that is the primary lens through which they choose to filter a situation.

However, this also does not preclude them from feeling slighted, angry, or that micro-aggressions occurred in how situations are handled, the language used in the conversations, the way power is exercised, et al.  And if individuals feel they've systemically been treated unfairly, it's not surprising they might have a "here we go again" response.  Now we're wading into subjective territory: less universal truth and more individuals' truths. 

In my experience, that's where everyone involved may benefit from checking their own perceptions and assumptions, as well as extending some empathy and grace toward other parties.  Focus less (at least initially) on blame and who is right or wrong and more on understanding how everyone sees the situation and how to move forward.  But this requires that everyone genuinely wants to hear and learn from each other and accept that their actions may have had unintended negative consequences.  Not everyone will.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[kdogg36]

Posted: 11/8/24 at 10:56am

Kad said: "Ensemble1698878795 derailed another thread just last week by asserting that Dear Evan Hansen was the “definition of white supremacy” so either they have a hammer and see everything as a nail or they’re an extremely specific troll."

Given what I know now, I very much regret my measured response on that thread. Clowns aren't meant to be taken seriously.

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/8/24 at 11:31am

kdogg36 said: "Kad said: "Ensemble1698878795 derailed another thread just last week by asserting that Dear Evan Hansen was the “definition of white supremacy” so either they have a hammer and see everything as a nail or they’re an extremely specific troll."

Given what I know now, I very much regret my measured response on that thread. Clowns aren't meant to be taken seriously."

Name calling doesn't make you smarter. This message board is a privilege and if you wanna make it miserable we can do that. I'm here to engage, not to be disrespected. Play with your next President, not with me. 

[OharaFosseWolfe888]

Posted: 11/8/24 at 12:39pm

Ensemble1698878795 said: "kdogg36 said: "Kad said: "Ensemble1698878795 derailed another thread just last week by asserting that Dear Evan Hansen was the “definition of white supremacy” so either they have a hammer and see everything as a nail or they’re an extremely specific troll."

Given what I know now, I very much regret my measured response on that thread. Clowns aren't meant to be taken seriously."

Name calling doesn't make you smarter. This message board is a privilege and if you wanna make it miserable we can do that. I'm here to engage,not to be disrespected. Play with your next President, not with me."

Every time you respond frennn, all I hear is Kdot's "wop, wop, wop, wop, wop, Dot f*ck em up. wop, wop, wop, wop, wop imma do my stuff. Why you trolling like a b*tch ain't you tired? Tryna strike a chord but it's prolly A-Minorrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" and it brings me such joy! Solidarity, understanding just know I don't know you personally but I see you and am deeply grateful for your existence.