Patti LuPone called a privileged, racially microaggressive bully by Hell's Kitchen cast member - Page 12
Patti LuPone called a privileged, racially microaggressive bully by Hell's Kitchen cast member
#275Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/5/24 at 9:13pm
What's the proof that the theatre owners and the HK team were obligated to make the requested changes? What is the proof that the changes were unreasonable? "I know Bway politics" is not proof.
If the requested changes were reasonable, what harm was done by making them? If they were not reasonable, they should not have been made (or they should have been made in a way that worked for the HK actors). But the fault for that would lie with whoever granted the changes. Patti made a request, she didn't make the decision.
Of course Kecia has the right to speak out. But people do not have to agree with her or validate her feelings. We are not silencing her, we are reacting to her.
verywellthensigh
Leading Actor Joined: 6/14/22
#276Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/5/24 at 9:19pm
Ensemble1698878795 said: "verywellthensigh said: "Calling flowers bullying is not "any human emotion" but ok."
I think the saying goes: Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. The flowers were a "thank you for adjusting your show forus." None of you want to make space for Kecia not having to accept that apology. You just want her to shut her mouth and do her show so Patti and company can feel comfy. The comfort only works one way in this scenario. And that my friend is PRIVILEGE."
Um...don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
Oh, she has the right to share her opinion, even if it had nothing to do with her, personally She even has the right to post it on Instagram. And we have the right to offer any opinion as it is out there for all to see. No one is shutting her up. No one is silencing anyone. Who has been silenced here? Names, please.
gibsons2
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/26/19
#277Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/5/24 at 9:41pm
Ensemble1698878795 said: "verywellthensigh said: "Calling flowers bullying is not "any human emotion" but ok."
I think the saying goes: Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. The flowers were a "thank you for adjusting your show forus." None of you want to make space for Kecia not having to accept that apology. You just want her to shut her mouth and do her show so Patti and company can feel comfy. The comfort only works one way in this scenario. And that my friend is PRIVILEGE."
Did it ever occur to you that Patti protects her shows audience?? Why does the audience have to listen to the music of a show across the street? Why are you so dense?
Ensemble1698878795
Chorus Member Joined: 11/1/23
#278Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/5/24 at 10:53pm
CreatureKitchen said: "What's the proof that the theatre owners and the HK team were obligated to make the requested changes? What is the proof that the changes were unreasonable? "I know Bway politics" is not proof.
If the requested changes were reasonable, what harm was done by making them? If they were not reasonable, they should not have been made (or they should have been made in a way that worked for the HK actors). But the fault for that would lie with whoever granted the changes. Patti made a request, she didn't make the decision.
Of course Kecia has the right to speak out. But people do not have to agree with her or validate her feelings. We are not silencing her, we are reacting to her."
When most of the reactions are "why did you bring race into this?" and "She's attention grabbing." You've disqualified her voice immediately. You really think folks of color love bringing up race, knowing most of you will react the way you have on this board? No, it's not something we enjoy doing. It takes immense courage and pain. You call disregarding her POV as reacting. I call it tone deaf.
Ensemble1698878795
Chorus Member Joined: 11/1/23
#279Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/5/24 at 10:59pm
gibsons2 said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "verywellthensigh said: "Calling flowers bullying is not "any human emotion" but ok."
I think the saying goes: Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. The flowers were a "thank you for adjusting your show forus." None of you want to make space for Kecia not having to accept that apology. You just want her to shut her mouth and do her show so Patti and company can feel comfy. The comfort only works one way in this scenario. And that my friend is PRIVILEGE."
Did it ever occur to you that Patti protects her shows audience?? Why does the audience have to listen to the music of a show across the street? Why are you so dense?"
Let's be careful with any name calling. K? You are all stuck on the sound issues. If that's your only understanding and sticking point of this entire situation, this conversation is no longer worth my time.
#280Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 8:43am
Had she kept her mouth shut, Patti's show might be making Kecia's money! (or Nicole's!)
OharaFosseWolfe888
Swing Joined: 5/3/24
#281Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 11:01am
BringBackBirdie said: "Had she kept her mouth shut, Patti's show might be making Kecia's money! (or Nicole's!)"
And everything about this comment and the conversation on this board the past few days shows why we have the election results we have. Those that think themselves white by and large will find any way to uphold the standards and beliefs of white supremacy. In something so little as what Kecia spoke out about, we saw on this very board, white people and those others who align with the ideas of whiteness over and over again dismiss the experience of a Black woman and Black people who repeatedly TOLD YOU THE TRUTH NOT AN OBJECTIVE ONE THE TRUTH.
Also as a Black non-binary person (I saw someone say he/she and didn't add they which lets me know something about your age demographic and that I was homophobic for calling out white cis gay men on this board, b*tch I'm Black and Gay) I can speak with pride about who and what I am. What we as a people KNOW to be true, no matter how much white folks and those who align with supremacy beliefs deny them. I hope you prejudice non listening MF**s are happy today. I hope you have some soul reckoning even on the smallest level to be better people. It has been legit gross on this board. And still we fight. We believe. But as an artist, who does social justice theatre, get ready! We coming directly to get you together AT THE THEATRE. The work, the shows that we will produce, get ready to STAY uncomfortable and hopefully heal a little.
Sonya Renee Taylor said it best..."Whiteness is a death cult. It will kill you, kill itself and then say I died better than you."
Actually....
"The nature of whiteness is to constantly validate its existence. And the only way to validate its existence is through the illusion of superiority. Without the illusion of superiority, then literally it creates the kind of existential crisis that says “Do I actually exist?”
Like if whiteness doesn’t exist—and it doesn’t, it’s made up—and someone’s identity is firmly structured on the illusion that is whiteness, then to challenge that illusion is to challenge the very nature of one’s existence. And when challenged with the very nature of our existence, when challenged with trying to understand or create reason for being alive—inside of that question is suicidality. Like if I don’t exist, why do I exist? Because it creates such conflict inside of people who have no other sense of understanding of themselves it creates a willingness to uphold the illusion at any cost. Because to get rid of the illusion is some ways is to kill one’s self.
And so, however, particularly in the current context we’re living in, to hold onto the illusion is also to kill one’s self, but at least it’s to die with the belief still intact. And that is what whiteness is, is being willing to die and kill everybody else for the ability to maintain the illusion. And that is what whiteness has us all on a death march toward. Because whiteness would sooner die than denounce its superiority, because to denounce its superiority would be to denounce its own existence. It would rather die in the physical and live in the imagination than to live in the truth."
Black artist, we grieve right now. For America being who we know she is. And then we come together, protect and defend our own, and do what our calling is, which is to make dynamic art that is a reflection, life's mirror.
gibsons2
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/26/19
#282Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 11:15am
OharaFosseWolfe888 said: "BringBackBirdie said: "Had she kept her mouth shut, Patti's show might be making Kecia's money! (or Nicole's!)"
And everything about this comment and the conversation on this board the past few days shows why we have the election results we have. Those that think themselves white by and large will find any way to uphold the standards and beliefs of white supremacy. In something so little as what Kecia spoke out about, we saw on this very board, white people and those others who align with the ideas of whiteness over and over again dismiss the experience of a Black woman and Black people who repeatedly TOLD YOU THE TRUTH NOT AN OBJECTIVE ONE THE TRUTH.
Also as a Black non-binary person (I saw someone say he/she and didn't add they which lets me know something about your age demographic and that I was homophobic for calling out white cis gay men on this board, b*tch I'm Black and Gay) I can speak with pride about who and what I am. What we as a people KNOW to be true, no matter how much white folks and those who align with supremacy beliefs deny them. I hope you prejudice non listening MF**s are happy today. I hope you have some soul reckoning even on the smallest level to be better people. It has been legit gross on this board. And still we fight. We believe. But as an artist, who does social justice theatre, get ready! We coming directly to get you together AT THE THEATRE. The work, the shows that we will produce, get ready to STAY uncomfortable and hopefully heal a little.
Sonya Renee Taylor said it best..."Whiteness is a death cult. It will kill you, kill itself and then say I died better than you."
Actually....
"The nature of whiteness is to constantly validate its existence. And the only way to validate its existence is through the illusion of superiority. Without the illusion of superiority, then literally it creates the kind of existential crisis that says “Do I actually exist?”
Like if whiteness doesn’t exist—and it doesn’t, it’s made up—and someone’s identity is firmly structured on the illusion that is whiteness, then to challenge that illusion is to challenge the very nature of one’s existence. And when challenged with the very nature of our existence, when challenged with trying to understand or create reason for being alive—inside of that question is suicidality. Like if I don’t exist, why do I exist? Because it creates such conflict inside of people who have no other sense of understanding of themselves it creates a willingness to uphold the illusion at any cost. Because to get rid of the illusion is some ways is to kill one’s self.
And so, however, particularly in the current context we’re living in, to hold onto the illusion is also to kill one’s self, but at least it’s to die with the belief still intact. And that is what whiteness is, is being willing to die and kill everybody else for the ability to maintain the illusion. And that is what whiteness has us all on a death march toward. Because whiteness would sooner die than denounce its superiority, because to denounce its superiority would be to denounce its own existence. It would rather die in the physical and live in the imagination than to live in the truth."
Black artist, we grieve right now. For America being who we know she is. And then we come together, protect and defend our own, and do what our calling is, which is to make dynamic art that is a reflection, life's mirror."
Bruh... It's still about HK bleeding sound into a much smaller theater currently housing a small two actor play. This audience also deserve to have the same experience as the audience of HK. End of of discussion.
The election results are caused by relentless woman hatred and misogyny, deeply rooted in every society and every political side. Especially towards older women. A woman can never be good enough even next to the lowest, most vile man.
OharaFosseWolfe888
Swing Joined: 5/3/24
#283Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 11:25am
Yes the world hates women. And definitely hate Black women. That is true. But we talking ABOUT THIS COUNTRY. Not the world.
Eliza2
Broadway Star Joined: 1/7/16
#284Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 12:19pm
I thought we were talking about Shubert Alley
MemorableUserName
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/27/19
#285Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 1:04pm
Also as a Black non-binary person (I saw someone say he/she and didn't add they which lets me know something about your age demographic and that I was homophobic for calling out white cis gay men on this board, b*tch I'm Black and Gay)
You can be gay and homophobic, just like women can be anti-woman and defend the patriarchy and Black people can be guilty of anti-Black racism. Being part of a group certainly doesn't prevent one from expressing bigotry toward it, nor preclude you from being called on it. Your inability to recognize that shows just how shallow your thought processes are, despite your voluminous word vomit.
#286Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 1:49pm
So much emotion. So much outrage. So much victim mentality. This is all distracting from the real issue someone mentioned that a quiet play just asked a very amplified musical - so loud that even its own box office staff are warning audience members about it - to turn it down a little. And something that happens with other shows in common place.
All of this wasted time, wasted arguments, division over nothing. It’s so toxic, based in a fictional dogmatic religious-type mentality. People who won’t listen, who are incapable of reasoning. Being reasonable. Showing good faith empathy instead of making ridiculous accusations.
No one has defended my observation that this outrage is defined by a mentality that Patti apparently is not able to actually comment on the objective sound levels of a show without exhibiting racist behaviour because the cast happen to have a different skin colour. This is madness. This sick culture and mentality is causing more division, more hatred.
Our culture is tearing itself apart. Please just stop. The demands are unreasonable. You cannot control Patti’s freedom of expression of an observation that is OBJECTIVELY TRUE because her skin colour is white. That is simply not ok.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
OharaFosseWolfe888
Swing Joined: 5/3/24
#287Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 2:05pm
MemorableUserName said: "Also as a Black non-binary person (I saw someone say he/she and didn't add they which lets me know something about your age demographic and that I was homophobic for calling out white cis gay men on this board, b*tch I'm Black and Gay)
You can be gay and homophobic, just like women can be anti-woman and defend the patriarchy and Black people can be guilty of anti-Black racism. Being part of a group certainly doesn't prevent one from expressing bigotry toward it, nor precludeyou from being called on it. Your inability to recognize that shows just how shallowyour thought processes are, despite your voluminous word vomit."
Yes this is true, but what I said was not homophobic in the least. I do recognize that, that wasn't my point for stating I wasn't being homophobic or my demo. Okay but you still read the voluminous word vomit right? Was anything stated in it inaccurate or just a hard to swallow pill? I can go back and forth all day. I have passion and rage to spare when fighting white supremacy. Especially about the American Theatre which I love deeply and dearly and is not equitable.
OharaFosseWolfe888
Swing Joined: 5/3/24
#288Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 2:13pm
binau said: "So much emotion. So much outrage. So much victim mentality. This is all distracting from the real issue someone mentioned that a quiet play just asked a very amplified musical - so loud that even its own box office staff are warning audience members aboutit - to turn it down a little. And something that happens with other shows in common place.
All of this wasted time, wasted arguments, division over nothing. It’s so toxic, based in a fictional dogmatic religious-type mentality. People who won’t listen, who are incapable of reasoning. Being reasonable. Showing good faith empathy instead of making ridiculous accusations.
No one has defended my observation that this outrage is defined by a mentality that Patti apparently is not able to actually comment on the objective sound levels of a show without exhibiting racist behaviour because the cast happen to have a different skin colour. This is madness. This sick culture and mentality is causing more division, more hatred.
Our culture is tearing itself apart. Please just stop. The demands are unreasonable. You cannot control Patti’s freedom of expression of an observation that is OBJECTIVELY TRUE because her skin colour is white. That is simply not ok.
"
"Please stop holding white people accountable. At least publicly it does nothing but bring division." Also, she can comment on the show's sound objectively absolutely, if she knew how to do it without perpetuating stereotypes about Black people. That did not happen and I don't care to discuss what ifs. And for me cut that people of color sh*t out please, not today. Please not today. We are talking about Black people and a BLACK show. Also stop talking about the sound spilling, the issue is BIGGER than that. Please stop being stuck on that point.
JSquared2
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/23/17
#289Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 2:23pm
OharaFosseWolfe888 said:
Please stop holding white people accountable. At least publicly it does nothing but bring division." Also, she can comment on the show's sound objectively absolutely, if she knew how to do it without perpetuating stereotypes about Black people. That did not happen and I don't care to discuss what ifs. And for me cut that people of color sh*t out please, not today. Please not today. We are talking about Black people and a BLACKshow. Also stop talking about the sound spilling, the issue is BIGGER than that. Please stop being stuck on that point."
The sound is the ONLY issue. Now please stop --- you're only embarrassing yourself further.
verywellthensigh
Leading Actor Joined: 6/14/22
#290Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 2:51pm
Still unanswered:
How can Patti comment on the objective sound levels of Hell's Kitchen without micro aggressing?
Ensemble1698878795
Chorus Member Joined: 11/1/23
#291Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 3:13pm
JSquared2 said: "OharaFosseWolfe888 said:
Please stop holding white people accountable. At least publicly it does nothing but bring division." Also, she can comment on the show's sound objectively absolutely, if she knew how to do it without perpetuating stereotypes about Black people. That did not happen and I don't care to discuss what ifs. And for me cut that people of color sh*t out please, not today. Please not today. We are talking about Black people and a BLACKshow. Also stop talking about the sound spilling, the issue is BIGGER than that. Please stop being stuck on that point."
The sound is the ONLY issue. Now please stop --- you're only embarrassing yourself further.
Question for you: Do you believe racial micro-aggressions exist? And what do they look like in your book? I'm asking for a country whose white majority just re-elected a facist into office.
Ensemble1698878795
Chorus Member Joined: 11/1/23
#292Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 3:15pm
verywellthensigh said: "Still unanswered:
How can Patti comment on the objective sound levels of Hell's Kitchen without micro aggressing?"
She doesn't. She figures out a way to curb her fragility for a limited run and power on. Something POC have to do all the time. We do it so much it's been normalized, but when the same is asked in the opposite direction there's an uproar.
#293Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 3:38pm
Womp womp.
Lewis was looking for a hook and she found it with race baiting.
Patti is Patti. She's not micro ANYTHING. This wasn't a race issue.
#294Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 3:39pm
If Kecia was having sound issues with a show next to hers, would you also say she just needs to power through and ignore the problem?
It seems your issue is that Patti’s concern was addressed. Whereas, hypothetically, Kecia’s concern would not be addressed because she’s black. If Kecia raised the same concern and it was ignored, that would be bad and wrong! Everyone should be able to raise reasonable concerns like this and have them listened to.
Fighting against Patti being able to raise reasonable concerns is completely backwards. You ought to be advocating for everyone to have reasonable issues addressed.
JasonC3
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/22/21
#295Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 4:16pm
The myriad of issues raised in this thread are not well-suited for an unmoderated conversation among anonymous participants in an online forum.
Updated On: 11/6/24 at 04:16 PM
#296Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 4:42pm
JasonC3 said: "The myriad of issues raised in this thread are not well-suited for an unmoderated conversation among anonymous participants in an online forum."
We can be adults here. If people are a little bit more agitated, I think that’s justified. We don’t need a hall monitor, have you seen the **** that’s been posted here before?!??
verywellthensigh
Leading Actor Joined: 6/14/22
#297Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 4:45pm
Ensemble1698878795 said: "verywellthensigh said: "Still unanswered:
How can Patti comment on the objective sound levels of Hell's Kitchen without micro aggressing?"
She doesn't. She figures out a way to curb her fragility for a limited run and power on. Something POC have to do all the time. We do it so much it's been normalized, but when the same is asked in the opposite direction there's an uproar."
So she's supposed to tell herself, "This noise is ruining my concentration and compromising the show, but I mustn't say anything because Black people have had to stay quiet about so much and I must emulate them."
That is nutty. There's fighting for social justice and then there's being a single-minded religious zealot for DiAngelean psychobabble. I hope you get to meet her someday so she can become obsessed with your hair.
Ensemble1698878795
Chorus Member Joined: 11/1/23
#298Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 4:54pm
CreatureKitchen said: "If Kecia was having sound issues with a show next to hers, would you also say she just needs to power through and ignore the problem?
It seems your issue is that Patti’s concern was addressed. Whereas, hypothetically, Kecia’s concern would not be addressed because she’s black. IfKecia raised the same concern and it was ignored, that would be bad and wrong! Everyone should be able to raise reasonable concerns like this and have them listened to.
Fighting against Patti being able to raise reasonable concerns is completely backwards. You ought to be advocating foreveryoneto have reasonable issues addressed."
You're starting to get it. No Black Broadway actress could EVER have the sound of another show adjusted for her comfort. It would not happen. If Patti was in Kecia's shoes how would she feel? And the rebuttal will be: but we don't know that. Audra. LaChanze. Lillias and Kecia have lived and worked in this industry for 20 plus years. When they bring up a gripe, believe them. Speaking up is advocating. Advocating is pointing out that some are afforded privileges you are not. But you consistently ignore my points. You all are exhausting.
Ensemble1698878795
Chorus Member Joined: 11/1/23
#299Kecia Lewis called out by Broadway community for bullying. Calls out sick.
Posted: 11/6/24 at 4:56pm
verywellthensigh said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "verywellthensigh said: "Still unanswered:
How can Patti comment on the objective sound levels of Hell's Kitchen without micro aggressing?"
She doesn't. She figures out a way to curb her fragility for a limited run and power on. Something POC have to do all the time. We do it so much it's been normalized, but when the same is asked in the opposite direction there's an uproar."
So she's supposed to tell herself, "This noise is ruining my concentration and compromising the show, but I mustn't say anything because Black people have had to stay quiet about so much and I must emulate them."
That is nutty. There's fighting for social justice and then there's being a single-minded religious zealot for DiAngelean psychobabble. I hope you get to meet her someday so she can become obsessed with your hair."
And what is Kecia suppose to do? Adjust her show vocally and sonically for Ms. Lupone. You don't comprehended having to constantly cater the discomfort of whiteness. And your stupid responses further prove your privilege.
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