Patti LuPone called a privileged, racially microaggressive bully by Hell's Kitchen cast member - Page 11

[OhHiii]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 4:55pm

binau said: "Ok, let me ask another way then: how can Patti comment on the objective sound levels of Hell's Kitchen without micro aggressing? Your response seems to suggest that it is not possible. It almost sounds like you're saying that Patti isn't even allowed to comment on objective reality inanyway without committing racist behaviour. Can't you see how mad that is?"

Thank you for blowing down this house of cards in such a succinct way. Thank you thank you thank you.

[BJR]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 4:59pm

Also, curious, does anyone have more info on the warnings Box Office give on the volume of the show? Like, do they consistently, or to just older patrons, or?

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 5:53pm

CATSNYrevival said: "Is it a microaggression when my next door neighbor plays loud music and I walk over and ask them to turn it down? Or should I make a video about it and post it on Instagram next time?"

Poor example. The equivalent of what Patti did would be calling the police and/or management first and never speaking to the neighbors because you're good friends with someone on the force. An anonymous complaint. I doubt Patti had a conversation with the performers herself. If she did I doubt Kecia would've made that video. (Enter another excuse for Patti...) 

[verywellthensigh]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 5:57pm

binau said: "Ok, let me ask another way then: how can Patti comment on the objective sound levels of Hell's Kitchen without micro aggressing? Your response seems to suggest that it is not possible. It almost sounds like you're saying that Patti isn't even allowed to comment on objective reality inanyway without committing racist behaviour. Can't you see how mad that is?"

Annnnd you just poked a huge hole into the Robin DiAngelo brand of race relations.  How dare you?  You must be racist!

Seriously, it's the big problem I had with White Fragility.  DiAngelo is so deferential to POC (especially one's with hair that she can fetishize!) that she can't fathom a scenario where a POC may be wrong or selfish or abusing notions of racism for personal gain.  If a POC says it's racism, it's racism.  Period.  And literally anything one may say to unpack the accusation is proof positive of said racism (i.e. The Kafka Trap).  

This should be obvious, but:  It's a bad thing to make one group of people unquestionably right, even if they face having lived with racism, prejudice, and horrific historical precedent.  We're seeing this right now in the Middle East and it ain't pretty. 

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 5:57pm

JasonC3 said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "It has become abundantly clear that the majority ofpeople on this board are more interested in POC being quiet, performing for them and being void of any human emotion. It is impossible to engage here because there's no accountability. I hope Ms. Lewis's TV show is a huge success and she never has to return to Broadway because she deserves much better than the racist vitriol that is championed by this pathetic "community.""

The few dozen people active on this thread hardly represent a majority of the people on this board. 

 Without rereading and assessing each individual post/poster, I'm not even sure your comment accurately reflects the majority of the people active in this thread."

In my personal experience, the last couple of weeks on this board has been a bunch of deniers of race and that it can play a factor in theater and theater making. What I said accurate reflects my experience. I'm happy to be proven wrong. 

[OhHiii]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 6:02pm

Couple of weeks? This happened literally days ago...

[CreatureKitchen]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 6:03pm

Calling police to a noise complaint can actively endanger the lives of POC. Are you seriously saying Patti endangered people’s lives now?

Management is also not a relevant comparison. Asking your neighbor first to turn the noise down is reasonable because they have the power to turn the noise down. No one in the Hell’s Kitchen cast controls the sound and they could not have addressed Patti’s complaint.

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 6:06pm

verywellthensigh said: "Calling flowers bullying is not "any human emotion" but ok."

I think the saying goes: Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. The flowers were a "thank you for adjusting your show for us."  None of you want to make space for Kecia not having to accept that apology. You just want her to shut her mouth and do her show so Patti and company can feel comfy. The comfort only works one way in this scenario. And that my friend is PRIVILEGE.  

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 6:12pm

CreatureKitchen said: "Calling police to a noise complaint can actively endanger the lives of POC. Are you seriously saying Patti endangered people’s lives now?

Management is also not a relevant comparison. Asking your neighbor first to turn the noise down is reasonable because they have the power to turn the noise down. No one in the Hell’s Kitchen cast controls the sound and they could not have addressed Patti’s complaint."

"No one in the Hell’s Kitchen cast controls the sound and they could not have addressed Patti’s complaint." False. Actors have active communication with the sound designer to assure the balance on stage allows them to deliver the performance they've been asked to do. This is why Kecia and company are annoyed. They settled into a design that was potentially different for them after months of doing a show. Thus having them all adjust their performances. It's obvious you don't know what you're talking about. You're just here to defend Patti at all costs.  

Updated On: 11/5/24 at 06:12 PM

[JasonC3]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 6:12pm

^
You again refer to "none of us" in message #257. Your apparent need to repeatedly make sweeping generalizations makes it very difficult to engage with you in good faith.

This thread should have been locked a long time ago. Updated On: 11/5/24 at 06:12 PM

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 6:14pm

JasonC3 said: "^
Your apparent need to repeatedly make sweeping generalizations makes it very difficult to engage with you in good faith.

This thread should have been locked a long time ago."

You don't have to engage. You can read and be quiet. It's hilarious that if people don't concede to the majority here they don't belong. Please show me where people are trying to listen on this thread. Where are those people? Most people in this thread are NOT listening. They're defending poor behavior and dismissing the possibility of race in the equation. 

Updated On: 11/5/24 at 06:14 PM

[kdogg36]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 6:15pm

OharaFosseWolfe888 said: "Again, the cis white gay male energy of this board is on full display."

I can't believe I read two more pages of comments in this thread and not one person called out this poster's disgusting homophobia. 

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 6:21pm

Talk about a microaggression... Guess s/he is an expert.

[CreatureKitchen]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 6:25pm

Ensemble1698878795 said: "False. Actors have active communication with the sound designer to assure the balance on stage allows them to deliver the performance they've been asked to do. This is why Kecia and company are annoyed. They settled into a design that was potentially became different for them after months of doing a show."

You didn't counter my point? Actors and sound designers communicate, but actors do not control the sound. No one forced the HK sound designer/technician to make changes - they willingly agreed to a request. If the actors felt that the changes were causing problems and the sound designer/technician were unresponsive to that, that is an issue within the HK team.

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 6:28pm

CreatureKitchen said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "False. Actors have active communication with the sound designer to assure the balance on stage allows them to deliver the performance they've been asked to do. This is why Kecia and company are annoyed. They settled into a design that was potentially became different for them after months of doing a show."

You didn't counter my point? Actors and sound designers communicate, but actors do not control the sound. No one forced the HK sound designer/technician to make changes - they willingly agreed to a request. If the actors felt that the changes were causing problems and the sound designer/technician were unresponsive to that, that is an issue within the HK team."

Only the HK team? Not Patti and Roommate team? The issue is all on HK? Do you hear yourself? Can you for one moment put yourself in their shoes? 

[CreatureKitchen]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 6:36pm

Ensemble1698878795 said: "Only the HK team? Not Patti and Roommate team?"

As far as we know, the HK team was not under any obligation to make the requested changes. If the changes are causing problems, it is within the HK team's power to either refuse those changes or communicate with the cast to make adjustments that work for them.

[Kad]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 6:37pm

Ensemble1698878795 said: "CreatureKitchen said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "False. Actors have active communication with the sound designer to assure the balance on stage allows them to deliver the performance they've been asked to do. This is why Kecia and company are annoyed. They settled into a design that was potentially became different for them after months of doing a show."

You didn't counter my point? Actors and sound designers communicate, but actors do not control the sound. No one forced the HK sound designer/technician to make changes - they willingly agreed to a request. If the actors felt that the changes were causing problems and the sound designer/technician were unresponsive to that, that is an issue within the HK team."

Only the HK team? Not Patti and Roommate team? The issue is all on HK? Do you hear yourself? Can you for one moment put yourself in their shoes?"

Do you hear yourself? The theaters are connected and HK’s sound was bleeding into the Booth. Things like this happen and this is something that is easily remedied by adjusting the sound of the louder production. Why are you behaving as if LuPone called the cops on some kids playing loud music outside, or demanded the HK cast sing differently? These are professional productions in close proximity and one was interfering with the other. This has truly gotten absurd.

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 6:47pm

CreatureKitchen said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "Only the HK team? Not Patti and Roommate team?"

As far as we know, the HK team was not under any obligation to make the requested changes. If the changes are causing problems, it is within the HK team's power to either refuse those changes or communicate with the cast to make adjustments that work for them."

Wrong again. It is not in the power of HK. It's in the power of the theater owners, who Patti has in her back pocket and she knows it. Which is why she made a huge stink about AEA sucking,  only to turn around and do a  Broadway show as a "non-union" actor. Y'all can go back and forth with me all you want, but the woman breathes and walks through this industry with immerse privilege and because no one checks her she's never had to be confronted with it until now. Kecia knew this would be the only way Patti would be held accountable in any way. 

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 6:48pm

But at least the absurdity has now reached new levels of hilarity!

"Only the people making the noise? Not the people not making the noise? The issue is all on the people making the noise? Do you hear yourself? Can you for one moment put yourself in their shoes?"

Umm...yes? Because they're the ones with the power to change anything?

I'm sure Ensemble1698878795 thinks The Roommate team should have hung up more soundproofing or something in their theater...which of course would be the responsibility of the landlord...who is the one who went to the HK team with the request to change the sound cue.

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 6:51pm

Kad said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "CreatureKitchen said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "False. Actors have active communication with the sound designer to assure the balance on stage allows them to deliver the performance they've been asked to do. This is why Kecia and company are annoyed. They settled into a design that was potentially became different for them after months of doing a show."

You didn't counter my point? Actors and sound designers communicate, but actors do not control the sound. No one forced the HK sound designer/technician to make changes - they willingly agreed to a request. If the actors felt that the changes were causing problems and the sound designer/technician were unresponsive to that, that is an issue within the HK team."

Only the HK team? Not Patti and Roommate team? The issue is all on HK? Do you hear yourself? Can you for one moment put yourself in their shoes?"

Do you hear yourself? The theaters are connected and HK’s sound was bleeding into the Booth. Things like this happen and this is something that is easily remedied by adjusting the sound of the louder production. Why are you behaving as if LuPone called the cops on some kids playing loud music outside, or demanded the HK cast sing differently? These are professional productions in close proximity and one was interfering with the other. This has truly gotten absurd."

Wasn't Kimberly Akimbo open during HK? Were the same requests made? Or was the same sound design not bleeding then?  It's only absurd because you can't see the privilege in her request. 

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 6:55pm

Wow. Ensemble1698878795 really believes it's privilege for anyone not to want to have to deal with loud noises from their neighbor. It's somehow not perfectly reasonable not to have to hear noise being blasted from a neighboring building through the walls. That's "privilege." Fascinating.

[Kad]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 7:03pm

Ensemble1698878795 said: "Kad said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "CreatureKitchen said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "False. Actors have active communication with the sound designer to assure the balance on stage allows them to deliver the performance they've been asked to do. This is why Kecia and company are annoyed. They settled into a design that was potentially became different for them after months of doing a show."

You didn't counter my point? Actors and sound designers communicate, but actors do not control the sound. No one forced the HK sound designer/technician to make changes - they willingly agreed to a request. If the actors felt that the changes were causing problems and the sound designer/technician were unresponsive to that, that is an issue within the HK team."

Only the HK team? Not Patti and Roommate team? The issue is all on HK? Do you hear yourself? Can you for one moment put yourself in their shoes?"

Do you hear yourself? The theaters are connected and HK’s sound was bleeding into the Booth. Things like this happen and this is something that is easily remedied by adjusting the sound of the louder production. Why are you behaving as if LuPone called the cops on some kids playing loud music outside, or demanded the HK cast sing differently? These are professional productions in close proximity and one was interfering with the other. This has truly gotten absurd."

Wasn't Kimberly Akimbo open during HK? Were the same requests made? Or was the same sound design not bleeding then?It's only absurd because you can't see theprivilege in her request."

We wouldn’t know because these requests and their accommodations are almost never made public knowledge. 

Also, HK and KA only overlapped for a month before KA closed. If they had sound issues, it was a moot point. 

[CreatureKitchen]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 7:04pm

Ensemble1698878795 said: "Wrong again. It is not in the power of HK. It's in the power of the theater owners, who Patti has in her back pocket and she knows it."

What is your evidence that Patti has the theatre owners "in her back pocket"? If your narrative is that the theatre owners forced the HK team to make changes that were detrimental to the actors, it is on you to back that up.

Just because she is privileged does not mean she loses the right to raise a concern about something impacting her show.

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 7:15pm

CreatureKitchen said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "Wrong again. It is not in the power of HK. It's in the power of the theater owners, who Patti has in her back pocket and she knows it."

What is your evidence that Patti has the theatre owners "in her back pocket"? If your narrative is that the theatre owners forced the HK team to make changes that were detrimental to the actors, it is on you to back that up.

Just because she is privileged does not mean she loses the right to raise a concern about something impacting her show."

 

It seems most people attend Broadway shows but seem oblivious to Broadway politics. Patti had her rights and Kecia Lewis has the full right to express herself the way she did. Full stop. Just because it doesn't coddle the majority of theater feelings doesn't mean there isn't validity inside her experience. I hope we get to a point in this country and industry that when POC speak on their experiences aloud, they aren't instantly told it's invalid. You all claim to champion inclusivity, but I'd take a deep look at your reactions here. They aren't inclusive. They are harmful and this board is a testament to why so many people don't share how they feel. They won't be believed. They'll be silenced. 

[JasonC3]

Posted: 11/5/24 at 9:11pm

Ensemble1698878795 said: "I hope we get to a point in this country and industry that when POC speak ontheir experiences aloud, they aren't instantly told it's invalid. You all claim to champion inclusivity, but I'd take a deep look at your reactions here. They aren't inclusive. They are harmful and this board is a testament to why so many people don't share how they feel. They won't be believed. They'll be silenced."

And I hope you take a look at the majority of your posts in this thread which have consistently privileged your perspective over everyone else's as if this situation did not have a myriad of variables in play.  It is one way that allies are lost.