Pre-Broadway sell outs that flopped on Broadway- Page 2

[kdogg36]

Posted: 11/12/23 at 11:24am

FANtomFollies said: "A flop is any show that fails to recoup its investment and make a profit."

The media reports around the closing announcement of American Idiot indicated that it was close to recouping but it was unclear if that would happen before the last performance. It had a very solid start, some lean winter months, and a strong finish. If anyone knows of a trustworthy source that could settle the matter of recoupment, I'd be very interested.

[BroadwayNYC2]

Posted: 11/12/23 at 11:55am

“ I use the accepted Ken Mandelbaum standard of a flop as < 250 performances. ”

 

this has never remotely been accepted just because he mentions it in one book. I swear, some of y’all just type things in this board. 

[FANtomFollies]

Posted: 11/12/23 at 12:20pm

BroadwayNYC2 said: "“ I use the accepted Ken Mandelbaum standard of a flop as < 250 performances. ”



this has never remotely been accepted just because he mentions it in one book. I swear, some of y’all just type things in this board."

Exactly.

 

[RippedMan]

Posted: 11/12/23 at 1:13pm

For what it's worth, Beetlejuice flopped on Broadway - by those terms - but is a giant hit on the road. It's already got a second Chicago stop planned due to demand. 

[ACL2006]

Posted: 11/12/23 at 1:29pm

RippedMan said: "For what it's worth, Beetlejuice flopped on Broadway - by those terms - but is a giant hit on the road. It's already got a second Chicago stop planned due to demand."

Jagged Little Pill has also done well on the road. Sadly, COVID killed the Broadway production.

[desperateAndee]

Posted: 11/12/23 at 3:05pm

Des McAnuff's Jesus Christ Superstar played/extended to sold out shows at the Stratford Festival/had acclaim at La Jolla but definitely didn't translate on Broadway — save for Josh Young's performance, eventual Tony nom. 

[PennClassic]

Posted: 11/12/23 at 4:39pm

As a fan of Alice Faye, I was thrilled when she was signed to do the revival of GOOD NEWS.  It toured successfully for almost a year but ran for only 16 performances on Broadway (12/23/74 to 1/4/75).

SEVEN BRIDES FOR SEVEN BROTHERS with Debby Boone had a well-received 18 month tour prior to opening on Broadway where it had a 5 performance run (7/8/82 to 7/11/82).

Updated On: 11/12/23 at 04:39 PM

[darquegk]

Posted: 11/12/23 at 4:49pm

Legally Bonde recouping on the road and Seussical recouping in licensing were big game-changers in terms of how flops and hits work. Beetlejuice has defied conventional Broadway metrics since the pandemic; theatre business students in the future will be talking about Beetlejuice as a case study for decades to come.

It sometimes seems like people are thinking and talking about flops and hits like it's still 1994 before Disney Theatricals and the boost of the licensing houses changed the business of how a show is designed to make money. "Running for fifty years on Broadway" isn't necessarily the game plan anymore.

[Wick3]

Posted: 11/13/23 at 3:01pm

Here Lies Love was sold out at the Public Theatre back in 2013 when it was off-Bway. 
K-POP was sold out at Ars Nova back in 2017 when it was off-Bway.

Both did not do well on Broadway. 

[blaxx]

Posted: 11/13/23 at 3:08pm

IronMan said: "ACL2006 said: "American Idiot, Bandstand, the 2006 Company revival."

American Idiot was critically acclaimed and ran over a year. Hardly a flop."

It lost every penny of its investment and more, tell the investors it wasn't a MEGA flop.

Again, in business, if you invest five apples and get nothing in return, you failed. No matter how much people claim to have liked such apples. 

[meyerd584]

Posted: 11/16/23 at 4:58pm

Not Since Carrie is required reading for any theater fan. It is essentially the bible for flop lovers. It's not just something some guy wrote in a book. As someone said, American Idiot ran a year but did not profit so that's a bad measurement too.

 

Ken's book is thoroughly researched and his definition is not only well put together with a great deal of care, it is also used as the end-all in most theater circles. 

[BETTY22]

Posted: 11/17/23 at 6:03pm

I think Suffs sold well at the public - I hope it doesn’t end up on this threat when it comes to Broadway.

 

[Demitri2]

Posted: 11/17/23 at 6:54pm

FantomFollies wrote: "It's becoming obvious many people on this forum don't know what a flop is. A flop is any show that fails to recoup its investment and make a profit. It doesn't matter if it runs for a long time or is praised by critics or audiences. If it doesn't recoup, it is a flop."

I couldn't agree more. For example, the revival of 42nd STREET ran over 3 1/2 years and clocked in with 31 previews and 1,524 performances. Yet, it was so costly to run that, if I'm not mistaken, it closed without recouping its initial investment. I loved the show and saw it several times. It was a lavish production and you saw every penny spent on the stage. It also had an orchestra pit with over twenty musicians. A financial flop. yes, but it far surpassed the original 1980 production IMO which was a financial hit and ran twice as long as the revival.