Reminder: GREY GARDENS on HBO, Saturday, April 18 at 8:00 PM!!!- Page 5

[Jane2]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 9:38am

I disagree on the lack of psychological information issue. Finally I understand how this gradual degradation happened.

Of course my favorite piece on GG is the original documentary, but that was all about the state they were in at the time.

And the show went from beginning, left out the middle, and picked up at the end.

I had enough information from the HBO film to fill in the blank, and my nagging curiosity is now satisfied.

Such a sad story. Some consider it more of a love story, but I don't. My usually dissenting opinion is that big Edie was a scared to be alone, manipulative mom who thwarted all of little Edie's efforts to have the life she so badly wanted. The father simply was stuck in his old fashioned conservative beliefs for his daughter.

Little Edie found herself in situations where the only place to turn was to go back home. I feel that after her dreams were shattered time and time again, her spirit finally died and she was resigned to the life her mother forced her into. In time, this became the only life she knew, and she lived it-devoted to the care of her mother. Sure, there was the love between mother and daughter, but I believe their situation was created by big Edie.

Fascinating story. A long time ago, there was another similar story, in a film about two brothers who lived together. I don't remember whether one or both of them were physicians, gynocologists, but they lived in a very disturbing relationship also.

Updated On: 4/20/09 at 09:38 AM

[StageManager2]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 11:23am

Jane, I don't know to which film you're referring, but I'm suddenly reminded of the Collyer brothers, two elderly recluses who lived (and died) in their garbage-ridden Harlem apartment in the early 20th Century. Like the Beales, they too came from a well-to-do family and were well-educated. But they had a tragic end. The older brother was an invalid and dependent on the younger brother, but when the able brother was killed by one of his own booby traps (they became obsessive about intruders) the other brother died of starvation.

[Jane2]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 11:49am

SM2, wow, there must have been yet ANOTHER one of those stories. The one you mentioned wasn't the one I was referring to. I may do a little research on this.

[logan0215]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 12:08pm

I found the film fascinating and beautiful. I feel it perhaps villainized Big Edie a bit too much and made her seem like a maniacal woman who caused her own daughter's demise. The soundtrack was gorgeous and the visuals, costumes (due for the most part to the amazing fashion sense of the real life Little Edie) and of course performances were breathtaking. I never wanted it to end.

I see both sides of the argument about the ending. Yes, it showed Edie finally getting the validation she sought her entire life as a performer, almost stealing thunder from her mother by having a SINGING act in fact, but also rang a tad "comical" for lack of a better word. For the average viewer of the film, the true "camp" quality of the Edies which drew in the crowds at Reno Sweeney may have not been conveyed therefore making the final scene seem a bit mean-spirited. Seeing someone who is clearly a terrible singer be cheered on by a crowd had the aftertaste of cruelty saved only for WIlliam Hung and other idol rejects. Ending with the NY Premier may have seemed a little too Hollywood to the director, especially seeing that these women were two tragic characters (for all intents and purposes) and that is a little fairytale-ish.

I'd also agree with MrMidwest (and in turn Dave Poland) that the jump from Edie's "return to NY episode to see Cap" to the almost entirely dilapidated Grey Gardens was one of the more jarring and abrupt of the entire film.

This jump could have also encompassed more information that we DIDN'T have from the documentary (and musical). It's easy piece together what happened right before the docu (the Maysles commissioned by Lee) and after (Big Edie's death and Little Edie's move to NYC), but those foggy years from Edie's complete resign to staying in the mansion to where the Maysles showed up would have been rich material to explore.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 12:13pm

I don't think the situation was all Big Edie's fault Jane. Little Edie's own mental illness played into this symbiotic relationship with her mother. She talks about being schizophrenic and denying the diagnosis in The Beales of Grey Gardens.
Their relationship was so incredibly intricate and filled with love (yes, love) and respect for one another along with the controlling and resentment.
It is very telling that Little Edie gave her approval of the Musical Grey Gardens on the condition that they treated "Mother Darling" with respect and dignity.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 12:14pm

That will be the sequel.

[logan0215]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 1:09pm

Had they added 25 minutes to explain that period of time, the film would have felt much more complete.

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 1:34pm

I think this film illustrates the love between the Edies better than either the musical or the documentary did.

There was more relationship depicted, more "I'm here to take care of you" on both women's parts, more ambiguity in terms of motivation.

It's one of the film's great strengths, in my opinion. I love the film. I intend to watch it over and over again, just as I did the musical and (still do with) the documentary. But that doesn't mean I can't be critical of it. So far I've only seen it once. I'm sure I will have different insights upon subsequent viewings.

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 1:53pm

MrMidwest, I just read your last post. (Sorry for the delay!)

For me, the thing that stood out about these women is their sense of isolation in a world that did not easily support their "independent thinking." They were "individuals," yet they were utterly dependent on men whether they be husbands, lovers or sons. Even Jackie's fame and fortune were direct results of her marriage choices.

Early on in the film when Big Edie says to the would-be-runaway debutante, Little Edie, "Marry and then do what you want" (or something to that effect), neither of them is thinking about how such an arrangement is not really feasible. They laugh about it and share a knowing glance, but they are naive to think that women really control their destinies under such circumstances. That's one of the things that makes the following comment so poignant when uttered years and years later: "You can't have freedom when you're being supported." It was a lesson Big Edie learned through experience.

Little Edie didn't really process the advice from her mother in a rational way. She decided (according to the film) that being in a relationship with a married man was better than running risk of being dependent on her own "husband." Little Edie saw that her parents' marriage wasn't working for her mother and her mother's sense of "independence," so she avoided falling into the same trap, but she wasn't "prepared" for anything other than being the ornament of a man. Plus, Little Edie's "relationship" with her father was so weird, it's no wonder she was looking for a father figure as well as someone who would rock the Beale Boat!

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 2:08pm

I think one of the most selfless acts Big Edie does for Little Edie in both the documentary and the HBO film is she allows Little Edie to have her delusions about history, which give her comfort.

I mean Big Edie takes the "blame" for bringing Little Edie back when we all know that Little Edie was decompensating mental health-wise. The whole "I came back to take care of mother" is a fabrication of sorts. I think Big Edie is very loving and protective of her daughters memories, so movingly illustrated when she was trying to scare Edie into not going to the GG premiere. Clearly, she was scared of anytime her daughter's "reality" would bump into actual reality.

If you listen to the commentary of the Maysles documentary you find out that the "beau" Edie goes on about losing, Eugene Leskayvitch, was a salesmen who Big Edie turned away. That gives you insight into how Little Edie crafted a history of her own and Big Edie made room for that.

Very loving indeed.

[Jane2]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 2:12pm

SNAFU, if I watch the film again I'll give some thought to what you said. But right now, I keep remembering how frustrated and unhappy little Edie was each time she was starting to fullfil her dreams, at the hands of her parents. I think they thwarted her.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 2:18pm

Unfortunately, I think Little Edie had a lethal combination of untreated mental health concerns and a life of entitlement which left her very unmotivated and mentally able to follow through on much of anything. While I think her father's lack of support and her mother's paranoia left her confused, I am pretty sure she would have had difficulty suceeding.

The fact that she was unable to keep the house clean for her invalid mother denotes pretty serious mental health issues for a physically able woman. Her entitlement would have shut off once the house started to stink if she weren't having mental health concerns. As a social worker, I've done a million home visits in similar situations. Very sad indeed.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 2:31pm

Very insightful, Bettyboy.

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 2:35pm

When Big Edie gives the "wedding jewels" to Little Edie was utterly heartbreaking and beautiful. I completely lost it during that scene.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 3:02pm

miss pennywise, i completely agree. i lost it during that scene. so heartbreaking and human...im tearing up just thinking about it. i understand that was really big edies card box that was given to her by cousin lois in grey gardens. i guess a lot of props were donated to the production by fans who obtained them.

i think that the love and energy put forth by all involved in the film carried out to us viewers.

[Jane2]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 3:05pm

SM2-FOUND IT! "Dead Ringers" by David Cronenberg.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094964/

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 3:12pm

Betty, I recognized the box right away.

When Little Edie says, "You should have sold them. We needed the money." and Big Edie says, "They weren't mine to sell." I just felt like that was one huge metaphoric moment! Just lovely. Well-done, Mr. Sucsy.

[Jane2]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 3:15pm

"The fact that she was unable to keep the house clean for her invalid mother denotes pretty serious mental health issues for a physically able woman"

Oh boy, is that true! My sibling who is ill does not clean house, but swears it's immaculate. You simply can't go inside her home, it's that bad.

I wonder if part of the reason for the house's degradation could be due to the fact that neither mother nor daughter were accustomed to doing any housework. They had staff for that.

[Jane2]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 3:24pm

"I mean Big Edie takes the "blame" for bringing Little Edie back when we all know that Little Edie was decompensating mental health-wise."

There was the phone call from big Edie to her husband about little Edie's affair with a married man in NY, meant to get her back home. Yes, little Edie came home, but at that point, she had no where else to go. I don't think she ever got over not going to the audition.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 7:46pm

And we know so much more about the hoarding syndrome -- a fairly recently designated condition that clearly played a role in this. They couldn't part with things, independent of the lack of funding for basic service. The hoarding gave Big Edie a sense of holding on, hanging on as she lost control over her environment. The gnarly interplay of so many conditions gripped and paralyzed these women. The film thoughtfully raises so many of the questions. I was very impressed with its economy and depth.

[esparza 333]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 7:54pm

I was in Philadelphia when this aired. I am so bummed I didn't catch it. Judging from these reviews it seems pretty phenomenal.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 9:09pm

Yes, it first aired this past Saturday but its on HBO and airing almost on a daily basis. It didn't just air once.

Here are the remainder April airdates for the film on HBO. Its also on HBO On Demand, so you can watch it whenever you want. No excuse to keep missing it:

4/21 10:45 AM
HBO - EAST

4/21 10:45 AM
HBO LATINO - EAST

4/21 1:45 PM
HBO - WEST

4/21 1:45 PM
HBO LATINO - WEST

4/21 7:15 PM
HBO - EAST

4/21 7:15 PM
HBO LATINO - EAST

4/21 10:15 PM
HBO - WEST

4/21 10:15 PM
HBO LATINO - WEST

4/23 9:15 AM
HBO2 - EAST

4/23 12:15 PM
HBO2 - WEST

4/23 8:00 PM
HBO2 - EAST

4/23 11:00 PM
HBO2 - WEST

4/26 2:00 PM
HBO - EAST

4/26 2:00 PM
HBO LATINO - EAST

4/26 5:00 PM
HBO - WEST

4/26 5:00 PM
HBO LATINO - WEST

4/27 12:00 AM
HBO - EAST

4/27 3:00 AM
HBO - WEST

4/28 7:30 AM
HBO SIGNATURE - EAST

4/28 10:30 AM
HBO SIGNATURE - WEST

4/28 9:00 PM
HBO SIGNATURE - EAST

4/29 12:00 AM
HBO SIGNATURE - WEST

4/30 12:30 PM
HBO - EAST

4/30 12:30 PM
HBO LATINO - EAST

4/30 3:30 PM
HBO - WEST

4/30 3:30 PM
HBO LATINO - WEST

4/30 8:30 PM
HBO - EAST

4/30 8:30 PM
HBO LATINO - EAST

4/30 11:30 PM
HBO - WEST

4/30 11:30 PM
HBO LATINO - WEST

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 9:41pm

I'd do anything to have this film on DVD right now so I could watch it over and over again.


The only thing that makes me feel better is the idea of a gorgeous DVD with many extra and special features.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 10:22pm

Yea, Totally Effed...the DVD will be gorgeous with tons of features and I dont think it will take very long to come out. :)

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 4/20/09 at 10:39pm

At one of the numerous premieres/fundraisers/galas held in the Hamptons for the film, director/writer Michael Sucsy confirmed that he has recorded an audio commentary for the upcoming DVD release of this film.

Since this HBO film was a labor of love all around, I think we can expect the DVD to be jammed-packed with lots of extras as well.




Director of the original 1975 documentary (and technical advisor on the HBO film adaptation), Albert Maysles, with Jessica Lange:


At a fundraiser held at Grey Gardens, here's Albert Maysles, Hampton socialite and noted animal welfare supporter Frances Hayward along with Michael Sucsy:


On a backyard porch at Grey Gardens, here is Michael with one of Big Edie's grandsons (and Little Edie's nephew), Bouvier Beale and his wife Eva: