Riedel on more Comet Drama- Page 5

[raddersons]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 10:50am

HogansHero said: "But to suggest that is why Oak was fired is a pure invention."

I understand that his run was ultimately cut short because they needed a bigger name to sell more tickets. However by that point, he was already making a bad name for himself (amongst Chavkin by not doing the work), and speculation was already floating about why he was starting a week late (because he didn't do the work). Why not control the narrative so that when someone asks Rachel how Oak was during the show and and she says "He didn't do the work", he already has an edge? "No, they fired me for a white star because they think black stars can't sell tickets!"

Side-note, black stars can sell tickets. Oak is not a star.

HogansHero said: "I realize you are just speculating but to suggest this is some conspiracy (and that's your speculation) has no foundation. (And to be clear, that comment is not intended to address the merits of the racism claims, in either direction.)"

I'm not saying it was a conspiracy to close the show, obviously no one wanted to do that. I just think Oak wanted to control the narrative for his own reputation.

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 10:53am

I have to say: one of my favorite Rafael tweets is this one, which has some very distinct "Momma Rose" vibes

https://twitter.com/RafaelCasal/status/890682371426717697

"Don't you laugh! Don't you DARE laugh! My Oak is gonna be a STAR!"

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 10:55am

"Who did I do it for, Oak!?" "I thought you did it for me, Rafael"

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 11:34am

Can Rafael literally not help himself? A word of advice: if you're going to conspire to close a show through accusations of racism, maybe you shouldn't like tweets that accuse you of that.

https://twitter.com/TheCometMemes/status/895084240106274816

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 11:48am

@raddersons ok but you are still imagining that there was a narrative needing control. It is a fact that the production did not bad mouth Oak when they fired him (because they didn't say anything at that point) and the first comment by a person in a position of knowledge came from Malloy and that certainly drove a Mack Truck through the notion that this was a firing based on Oak's performance in any sense other than (no surprise) that he wasn't selling many tickets and the show was in a death spiral. (A fact that plenty of folks here are in total denial about.)

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 11:51am

HogansHero, please use facts. If we're going to discuss rumors, then I can just as easily bring up the rumor that there were a number of stars interested in various roles that have since turned it down due to the controversy. I've made this point earlier- following Groban, Michaelson, and Patinkin ain't bad.

[schubox]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 12:00pm

Again, there are a lot of factors. No one person is responsible for this. Anyone solely blaming an actor or producer is wrong. But to act as if the backlash from the Oak/Rafael stuff had 0 to do with it closing on the third is naive or just ignorant. More than one thing can be true. And even if Oak is 100% innocent and a victim (he isn't) the stigma that is now attached to him now is going to adversely affect his career 

 

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 12:05pm

schubox, as I've said before, this thread is really about what led to the casting controversy, not about whether the show would've continued to run. Essentially, even if the show were to close anyway (I don't think it would've, but that's a debate for another time), Oak decided he wanted it down in flames. 

I teared up a bit watching this... By the way, someone is conspicuously absent from this video https://twitter.com/katrinayaukey/status/895314451607322624

[Plannietink08]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 12:14pm

I hope Oak gets boo'd at the stage door. 

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 12:18pm

Oh, he won't get booed. And therin lies the problem (mainly for him). People (and now, as we are finding out, cast members) are afraid to speak out about his unprofessionalism because they fear retaliation from Oak's fans. Producers, when considering hiring him, will only see downside. He has a sizeable fan base that will shut a show down, but don't put their money where their mouth is to support him. Let me put it this way - if Bette Midler did this, I'm sure she would still remain employed, because she sells a ton of high prices tickets.

[SuddenlySeymour3]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 12:24pm

The bottom line is that if COMET were a great show that connected better with Broadway audiences, it wouldn't be closing. 

The admirable ambition of its complex score doesn't make it tuneful. 

And the hyper-energy of Rachel Chavkin's excellent direction doesn't make up for a Cliff Notes-level book that fails to stir the emotions. 

Most of the people that I know who sacrificed the big $$ to see the show came away feeling "Meh" about it. 

 

Updated On: 8/9/17 at 12:24 PM

[raddersons]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 12:32pm

HogansHero said: "@raddersons ok but you are still imagining that there was a narrative needing control. It is a fact that the production did not bad mouth Oak when they fired him (because they didn't say anything at that point) and the first comment by a person in a position of knowledge came from Malloy and that certainly drove a Mack Truck through the notion that this was a firing based on Oak's performance in any sense other than (no surprise) that he wasn't selling many tickets and the show was in a death spiral. (A fact that plenty of folks here are in total denial about.)"

Once again I just want to say this is pure speculation for fun and is to ease my woes about this show closing. I don't think any real 'facts' are necessary here. I certainly have none.

Of course the production wouldn't bad mouth it's lead actor, that's bad for it's own image - "Shame on our lead actor, buy tickets see to him the next two weeks!" I'm talking internally. Oaks's run ends, he looks for a new job. A director calls Rachel, asks her what it's like to work with Oak. Rachel says, "Well, he didn't learn the accordion and we had to start him a week late." Doesn't look good.

Suddenly he gets replaced by Mandy and there's a chance to save his own reputation. No matter what Rachel says, her story will always be a bit damaged and lose a bit of credibility because they already know an alternate narrative. They may not even call Rachel and ask her because his experience on the show isn't representative of a typical show for him. I mean, he got fired for ticket sales! That stinks.

But then the plan backfires, Dave tweets, and it all blows up in his face.

The more I type it the more far-fetched it seems, and the more I think I'm a conspiracy theory. I don't know. I'm just kind of spouting.

Updated On: 8/9/17 at 12:32 PM

[leighmiserables]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 12:40pm

Lucas Steele posted this on his twitter a little while ago:  https://twitter.com/TheLucasSteele/status/895314677491671040

Really beautiful video. And because I'm literally drinking tea right now, couldn't help but notice Oak was nowhere to be seen. 

Updated On: 8/9/17 at 12:40 PM

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 12:47pm

leighmiserables said: "Lucas Steele posted this on his twitter a little while ago:  https://twitter.com/TheLucasSteele/status/895314677491671040

Really beautiful video. And because I'm literally drinking tea right now, couldn't help but notice Oak was nowhere to be seen. 

 

"

E X A C T L Y.

btw, a friendly reminder to others- there are threads to discuss whether Comet would've closed anyway. This isn't not one of them. This is a thread to discuss what led to the controversy, and more specifically, if what Riedel is saying is true.

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 12:50pm

Dancingthrulife2 said: "If, I mean IF, this article is true, I wonder whether Chavkin would insist Mandy "play it as written, reminding him repeatedly that he was a 'replacement'" and how she would feel if Many would end up not being able to play the piano and accordion parts.

That's the difference between hiring a star and hiring another working actor. You're not going to say those kinds of things to Audra McDonald or Patti Lupone either. You hire a star to give that star's performance. You hire a replacement to fit into the show and serve the story. And as for whether he was ready to play those instruments (which has not been confirmed), he had much more time to prepare than Patinkin would have had. 

 I know for a fact that many of my Asian American friends are just as oblivious to issues such as race and gender as most people not negatively affected by them.

Um... EXCUSE me?

 

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 12:55pm

If you want any proof as to why more people in the show aren't speaking up about Oak, just look at the replies to Cassata's tweets. It's much smarter to speak to somebody like Riedel off the record than it is to endanger yourself on social media 

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 1:01pm

I'm an Asian-American who is not blind to issues of race and gender, thank you very much. I can clearly see blatant and systemic racism against black people, brown people, Asians, etc. I am not only aware of what affects me personally.

While this is a whole big mess and closing is the only option at this point, this is not a race issue and it never was. If it were, they would not have cast Denée or Oak or any of the multi-ethnic cast who understudy the principals. Mandy Patinkin is a celebrity of sorts and theatre royalty. Oak is not.

I do think it will haunt Oak for a long time after this, but it's not because of his color, it's because of the way things were handled. This would be true of any actor regardless of race. And it's unfortunate. This whole situation is a sad mess and I'm sad it happened to a show like this that deserves to be seen.

[bear88]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 1:10pm

PaulWom, do people who start threads get to dictate what's discussed in them? I wrote a comment on this thread raising questions about the producer's decisions long before the recent controversy.

I didn't realize that violated your rule about what's allowed to be discussed. You posted the New York Post story. I commented.

If you're a moderator, and I have run afoul of board policy, I apologize. If not, well, I know emotions are high right now.

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 1:13pm

bear88, you are free to post what you want, wherever you want (that is your right). However, I would please ask that the discussion you are talking about (and I'm not saying it is an unworthy one) perhaps belongs on a different thread, where that is the focus. I would hope that this thread remains focused on what this thread is about- what caused the Comet controversy, and if Riedel's article is true. I worry that mixing different , and in my mind unrelated, issues only further muddles what actually happened here.

[leighmiserables]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 1:16pm

Dancingthrulife2 said: " I know for a fact that many of my Asian American friends are just as oblivious to issues such as race and gender as most people not negatively affected by them."

Um...on behalf of my Asian American friends... 

what. 

[newintown]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 1:16pm

Suddenlyseymour3 wrote: "The admirable ambition of its complex score doesn't make it tuneful."

As a musician, I disagree strongly - the Comet score (although some may find it attractive) is far from "complex;" the music is actually extremely simple, and the lyrics are mostly plain prose or very repetitive.

[Hellob]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 1:22pm

It could be that Oak led Casal to believe it was racism. I doubt that he's going to tell his friends "I got fired bc I didn't know my lines, fought with the director, held up my debut a week, am not selling tickets, etc" it's possible that Casal was manipulated.

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 1:30pm

Hellob, I wouldn't throw a pity party for Casal either. IMO, It seems like he was a willful accomplice at best, conspirator at worst.

[Hellob]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 1:34pm

PaulWom said: "Hellob, I wouldn't throw a pity party for Casal either. IMO, It seems like he was a willful accomplice at best, conspirator at worst.

 

"

It's not a pity party, I was just thinking about the way most people spin things like this. The majority of people aren't honest with friends and family. Casal may have been played but in the end, it's still stupid for him to be so reactive until you're sure

Updated On: 8/9/17 at 01:34 PM

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 1:43pm

Hellob said: "PaulWom said: "Hellob, I wouldn't throw a pity party for Casal either. IMO, It seems like he was a willful accomplice at best, conspirator at worst.

 

"

It's not a pity party, I was just thinking about the way most people spin things like this. The majority of people aren't honest with friends and family. Casal may have been played but in the end, it's still stupid for him to be so reactive until you're sure

 

"

That's fair... if Oak wasn't honest w his friends, that's even worse- he may have caused damage to their careers as well.