Riedel on more Comet Drama- Page 6

[Evans2]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 2:00pm

oncemorewithfeeling2 said: "A friend in the cast called me to talk for about 45 minutes last night...we've been friends for over a decade and I truly trust and believe them. The stories coming out are sad, disheartening, and flat out ugly. The cast is proud of what they've done over the past 5 years to few months, depending on the members length of involvement, but there's a lot feelings of things being incomplete.

As much as the people involved--not just the cast, but the crew and everyone involved with the production--just want to walk away from the current ugliness and have some closure, I don't think this will neatly tie itself up on September 3."

Does this have anything to do with the "something else going on" that 10086sunset mentioned in the prior thread about Oak's firing?

[asimplegal2]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 2:04pm

newintown said: "Suddenlyseymour3 wrote: "The admirable ambition of its complex score doesn't make it tuneful."

As a musician, I disagree strongly - the Comet score (although some may find it attractive) is far from "complex;" the music is actually extremely simple, and the lyrics are mostly plain prose or very repetitive.

 

"

How do you find the music to be simple? I am a musician as well, and while some songs (Pierre and Natasha)  are intentionally simple, others like The Opera and Prologue are quite musically complex and unique, especially compared to scores like Dear Evan Hansen and Waitress.The vocal arrangements also stand out to me as complex.

I agree that the lyrics are straightforward, far from poetry, and don't make any effort towards wordplay or cleverness, which is a little refreshing in my opinion.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 2:11pm

Evans2: This? 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marchershberg/2017/08/08/great-comet-controversy-could-continue-after-closing/#32f145652c31

[Owen22]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 2:24pm

SuddenlySeymour3 said: "The bottom line is that if COMET were a great show that connected better with Broadway audiences, it wouldn't be closing. 

The admirable ambition of its complex score doesn't make it tuneful. "

 

Okay, I'm getting sick of this sh*t. And I know it's a matter of taste...but, among many many things "Comet" has going for it is an INCREDIBLE sense of melody! Much more melodic than Evan Hansen, Groundhog Day or Bandstand combined. That is what Malloy is,  He is a melodist. Not a traditional melodist in the Richard Rogers sense, and not even a great melodist in every show he writes. But Comet.... Comet has such original, beautiful melodies, catchy and soaring, and gorgeous, and aching, for people to keep saying otherwise is really pis*ing me off.  I have to endure the sadness of this tremendous show leaving us way before it should be--I don't need to read these kind of remarks from people I feel are gloating that the show is over.

 

[newintown]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 2:28pm

asimplelegal2 asked "How do you find the music to be simple?"

Without diving too deeply into an arcane music theory discussion that few would appreciate or understand, I would just say that I find that Molloy's musical language tends towards lingering on one simple major or minor chord for many measures, with predictable, small harmonic progressions (reminiscent of the musical language of beginner guitar players), melodies that tend to rest on or around one note for long stretches, and rhythmic patterns that remind one of lite pop from the 70s and 80s.

A friend with less musical education identified is as "it all sounds like a bunch of recitative."

Updated On: 8/9/17 at 02:28 PM

[leighmiserables]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 2:47pm

newintown said: "asimplelegal2 asked "How do you find the music to be simple?"

Without diving too deeply into an arcane music theory discussion that few would appreciate or understand, I would just say that I find that Molloy's musical language tends towards lingering on one simple major or minor chord for many measures, with predictable, small harmonic progressions (reminiscent of the musical language of beginner guitar players), melodies that tend to rest on or around one note for long stretches, and rhythmic patterns that remind one of lite pop from the 70s and 80s.

A friend with less musical education identified is as "it all sounds like a bunch of recitative.""

Just out of curiosity – what shows would you consider to be complex musically? Because I've always though that GC was incredibly complex/different for a Broadway show (not lyrically). And I do consider myself someone who knows a decent amount about Music Theory (I got a 5 on the AP exam, and have been playin piano since the third grade, if that means anything). 

Updated On: 8/9/17 at 02:47 PM

[asimplegal2]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 2:51pm

newintown said: "asimplelegal2 asked "How do you find the music to be simple?"

Without diving too deeply into an arcane music theory discussion that few would appreciate or understand, I would just say that I find that Molloy's musical language tends towards lingering on one simple major or minor chord for many measures, with predictable, small harmonic progressions (reminiscent of the musical language of beginner guitar players), melodies that tend to rest on or around one note for long stretches, and rhythmic patterns that remind one of lite pop from the 70s and 80s.

A friend with less musical education identified is as "it all sounds like a bunch of recitative."

 

"

Well thank you for clearing that up - thanks to your first sentence now I know this is just a pretentious effort to make yourself seem more intellectual than everyone else. I imagine that if you think Great Comet is simple, Dear Evan Hansen must be as complex as a radio ad phone number jingle.

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 2:54pm

asimplegal2 said: "Well thank you for clearing that up - thanks to your first sentence now I know this is just a pretentious effort to make yourself seem more intellectual than everyone else. I imagine that if you think Great Comet is simple, Dear Evan Hansen must be as complex as a radio ad phone number jingle."

LOL. Everything about this!^^

[newintown]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 3:05pm

leighmiserables asked "Just out of curiosity – what shows would you consider to be complex musically?"

I don't think, first of all, that I would say that "musical complexity" is necessarily what anyone needs to strive for - music is music; as Kurt Weill said, "there is only good music and bad music."

But there are composers and scores that I would say are much more interesting and use a broader range of musical language than others - Sondheim, William Finn, and Scott Frankel among them.

asimplegal2 wrote "...thanks to your first sentence now I know this is just a pretentious effort to make yourself seem more intellectual than everyone else."

My bad; I thought you were interested in an actual discussion, rather than just base bitchery. I won't trouble you again.

Updated On: 8/9/17 at 03:05 PM

[SeanD2]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 3:07pm

asimplegal2 said: "Well thank you for clearing that up - thanks to your first sentence now I know this is just a pretentious effort to make yourself seem more intellectual than everyone else. I imagine that if you think Great Comet is simple, Dear Evan Hansen must be as complex as a radio ad phone number jingle."

Having a lot of notes doesn't inherently make something complex, just like having a solo note playing doesn't make something musically simple. Newintown is right. The perceived complexity of the score of Comet is largely on the surface as a result of the orchestrations.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 3:14pm

The cast begged Oak to make a public statement that it was not about race. He gave them the finger and decided to keep his mouth shut because he already knew the director didn't want him back after the earlier trouble in rehearsals. So the race storm was kind of convenient for him.

Even if the producers then said he could eventually come back after Patinkin to calm the situation a little, Oak could never do that because he would lose face to his poc fanatic following.

Updated On: 8/9/17 at 03:14 PM

[oncemorewithfeeling2]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 3:51pm

Evans2 said: "oncemorewithfeeling2 said: "A friend in the cast called me to talk for about 45 minutes last night...we've been friends for over a decade and I truly trust and believe them. The stories coming out are sad, disheartening, and flat out ugly. The cast is proud of what they've done over the past 5 years to few months, depending on the members length of involvement, but there's a lot feelings of things being incomplete.

As much as the people involved--not just the cast, but the crew and everyone involved with the production--just want to walk away from the current ugliness and have some closure, I don't think this will neatly tie itself up on September 3."

Does this have anything to do with the "something else going on" that 10086sunset mentioned in the prior thread about Oak's firing?"

There's several issues going on at The Great Comet. The closing of the show is ultimately because the advances past the first week or two of September are not sustainable; I don't have exact percentages or anything, but they're the polar opposite of a show that was doing 100% of it's gross the first week of July. We, the public, have seen the past two weeks of craziness. Things have been messier for longer then 2 weeks. More then one factor has made things messy.

I really don't think it's necessary to say much more then that. The situation with Oak, Mandy, social media and reactions from the different parties has left a bad taste in the mouths of cast members, creative team members, production, and fans. 

[Hellob]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 4:24pm

Dave28282 said: "The cast begged Oak to make a public statement that it was not about race. He gave them the finger and decided to keep his mouth shut because he already knew the director didn't want him back after the earlier trouble in rehearsals. So the race storm was kind of convenient for him.

Even if the producers then said he could eventually come back after Patinkin to calm the situation a little, Oak could never do that because he would lose face to his poc fanatic following.

 

"

How many of us would help the people who just fired us, deservedly or not? I probably wouldn't. Even if he could have saved their jobs, the stories coming out make it appear that he wasn't well liked by the cast, anyway. Most of us would not be inclined to intervene. 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 4:29pm

Except when you see it turning into a huge race thing before your eyes when you know it's not.

Then you would think any form of character would come up.

[raddersons]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 4:39pm

SeanD2 said: "Having a lot of notes doesn't inherently make something complex, just like having a solo note playing doesn't make something musically simple. Newintown is right. The perceived complexity of the score of Comet is largely on the surface as a result of the orchestrations."

True. On the flip side, just because it has a lot of notes doesn't mean it should be dismissed as pretentious.

When you have the same orchestrator as score writer, it is very hard to differentiate what is considered orchestration and what is considered the score. Add that to the fact that Great Comet is entirely sung thru. The score is the orchestration, and the score is the book. All three elements work together to make Great Comet what it is. It's hard to argue that any other show on Broadway right now serves its story better than Great Comet, when its score is its story.

Updated On: 8/9/17 at 04:39 PM

[SeanD2]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 4:41pm

Hellob said: "How many of us would help the people who just fired us, deservedly or not? I probably wouldn't. Even if he could have saved their jobs, the stories coming out make it appear that he wasn't well liked by the cast, anyway. Most of us would not be inclined to intervene. "

Anybody who works in a visible profession where our behavior is judged by the public would. For example just look at somebody like Reince Priebus. He got fired and still went out and promoted the person who fired him.

It's called being a professional.

Updated On: 8/9/17 at 04:41 PM

[Hellob]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 4:48pm

Dave28282 said: "Except when you see it turning into a huge race thing before your eyes when you know it's not.

Then you would think any form of character would come up.

 

"

I get what you're saying and agree but I don't see the personal benefit to him. As long as the claim is floating without him quashing them, he can play the victim and a certain % of people will believe him. 

Also, we have no way of knowing if he perceived the contention behind the scenes having to do with race. Maybe he felt that he's not getting catered to bc he's black and not Groban. We will likely never know if it was manipulation, misunderstanding, poor work ethic, mental illness, etc 

Either way, I still believe that most people would not be helpful to their former boss and colleagues when there's no love lost.

 The producers should have had him sign a contract about the exit strategy and documented his subpar behavior like most jobs do before firing you. 

 

[KnewItWhenIWasInFron]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 5:32pm

rosscoe(au) said: "Cynthia Erivo shouldn't be allowed to walk away from this either, she's as much at fault along with Oak 

 

"

Some on this thread are interpreting Rubin's comments as being directed at Oak, but is that necessarily the case? I feel like she could just as easily be talking about pot-stirrers such as Casal and Erivo.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 5:46pm

Geez....why get so upset when someone has a different opinion?  I like what I like, and I don't give a rat's a$$ if music theory or anything else tells me how bad something is.  Who cares if some one else hates it?  

Do none of you know how to have a conversation?   Why does have to be about who is RIGHT?  No one is right or wrong about art.

[Hellob]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 5:53pm

The real winner here is LMM. He serendipitously took his vacation at the perfect time. He doesn't have to be involved or comment at all. 

[JayElle]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 6:01pm

Can someone tell me what the bad oak tweet is. I've been gone all day

[JayElle]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 6:08pm

I can't find it on twitter 

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 6:15pm

JayElle said: "Can someone tell me what the bad oak tweet is. I've been gone all day"

This?

https://twitter.com/JoeyCassata/status/895047571500093442

[PaulWom]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 6:27pm

^yes, that, and also this https://twitter.com/JoeyCassata/status/895095727550083073

[Back Row]

Posted: 8/9/17 at 6:30pm

Regardless of what actually happened with Comet, it seems to me that producers would try to discourage color blind casting in future shows due to the social media firestorm that came out of this situation. Why take the risk? From a business standpoint, you might find more producers choosing to go "safe and white" rather than risking something like this happening again by opening the casting up across racial boundaries. Nobody won here, and the producers may not end up being the biggest losers after everything shakes out.