Sally or Phyllis?

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/27/11 at 10:35pm

We did this a few years ago. In honor of the Kennedy Center production, let's do it again.

Sally or Phyllis? Who do you prefer?

I assume the majority will choose Phyllis, but I have a connection/obsession with Sally, so she is my choice.




Updated On: 5/27/11 at 10:35 PM

[FunnyGirl617]

Posted: 5/27/11 at 10:52pm

Definitely Sally...such a heartbreaking character.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 5/27/11 at 11:05pm

Team Sally here,
her music is so depressingly beautiful.

[aasjb4ever]

Posted: 5/27/11 at 11:19pm

Durant '41 all the way.

Sally is such a vulnerable character whose life was so shattered by Ben, and her mind was set that he would reverse his decision, but he's still just the tease he was 30 years prior.

[SondheimFan5]

Posted: 5/28/11 at 1:04am

going by writing - Sally.

But, from a performance perspective, if you've got a Phyllis who steals the show (ie, Donna Murphy) then she could overshadow Sally, which is what happened in the original, I think.

[bwayfan7000]

Posted: 5/28/11 at 1:52am

I always thought of Sally as the "lead" female, and Phyllis as the "featured" female, especially with casting like Peters as Sally, but I think both are great roles that speak to the compelling nature of the show as written. For me, though, there's nothing like a Phyllis completely nailing "Could I Leave You?", so maybe it's her by a hair.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/28/11 at 4:49am

Team Sally for me too! You just feel for her.

[Amalia Balash]

Posted: 5/28/11 at 6:28am

Team Phyllis, now and always. A better wife to Ben than he deserved and a better friend to Sally than she deserved. In a diferent era, she would have been running the foundation, not Ben.

Interesting that the original production put Alexis Smith's Phyllis in the bright red dress while the Kennedy Center chose a bright red dress for Bernadette Peters's Sally. At the Kennedy Center LookIn, Bernadette said that Sally wore red because she wanted to draw (Ben's) attention at the party. I wonder what motivated the bright red for Phyllis in the original.
Updated On: 5/28/11 at 06:28 AM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/28/11 at 9:24am

I wonder what motivated the bright red for Phyllis in the original.

Maybe she wanted to get Ben's attention too.

I with you all the way on Team Phyllis.

Sally is a nasty, manipulative psycho-bitch, who pretends to be sweet and innocent just to get people on her side. And it looks like it worked with all of you gullible fools.

She tried to steal Ben away from Phyllis, and when it didn't work, she faked a suicide attempt to make him feel guilty. Nice.

She never loved Buddy, but married him anyway, ludicrously thinking it would make Ben jealous. Even nicer.

She lives her life like a shut-in, drinks all day and takes pills, leaves coffee cups piling up in the sink for days, spends hours in what she calls her "garden" (although no flowers or vegetables grow there) or doing her "painting" (at an always-blank easel--don't ask!), and sometimes she stands in the middle of the floor, not going left, not going right, virtually catatonic from all the booze and pills.

She fights with everyone, including her two sons, whom she saddled with the names Tommy and Timmy. They moved to San Francisco--wouldn't you?--where they avoid their crazy mother's phone calls. Thomas has been in psychoanalysis for years, trying to come to grips with his seeming hatred of women. Tim lives in a commune in Haight-Ashury, where he studies transcendental meditation, does hallucinogens to "open his mind" and practices "free love." He says the Earth is his mother now.

And then Psycho-Bitch Sally comes to New York, to use Mr. Weismann's reunion as her last-ditch effort to sink her claws into Ben and steal him away from Phyllis.

Don't fall for her woe-is-me line and let her gain your sympathy. She always needs someone new to fight with.

Phyllis, on the other hand, is a nice girl who came to New York with a small amount of talent and good legs, got a job in the Follies, fell in love with a man who loved only himself, educated herself about art and literature and politics so she could fit in with his friends, learned the ways and customs of the social, political and business worlds her husband worked in so she could be an asset to his career, and kept telling herself tomorrow would be better until she woke up and realized that it wasn't.

But she never stopped loving Ben, even when she hated him, and she never loved anyone else, including herself.

In the end, they're perfect for each other: Ben seems to love only himself (but, really, he hates himself), and Phyllis doesn't love herself at all (but, really, she takes care of herself pretty well).

Updated On: 5/28/11 at 09:24 AM

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/28/11 at 9:45am

I can't decide.

So I'm just gonna say Syphilis.

[raker]

Posted: 5/28/11 at 10:08am

I was never sure about "In Buddy's Eyes." In other songs Sally seems contemptuous of Buddy, but in this song she's in love with him. I didn't hear the irony. Barbara Cook sang it with such conviction in the concert performance, I believed she felt safe and loved with Buddy. I thought that Buddy's philandering hurt Sally, and her thing for Ben was a girlish fantasy. It was a second chance at happiness she longed for, not Ben really. She loved Buddy in that way antagonistic, unhappy couples love each other---for what the other could be, not for what they are. I hope I get to see a full production one of these days and see the whole story, book and score.

As for Sally v. Phyllis, I pick Dorothy Collins. I love listening to her beautiful voice. Besides, Phyllis is a gorgon.

[elmore3003]

Posted: 5/28/11 at 11:51am

PalJoey, what a fantastic analysis! I've always preferred Sally because she is the perfect stage picture of my mother, and you described her to a T. My mother died 17 years ago, and I can't say I miss her, but I do understand the mess she made of everyone's lives. I moved to New York, and my youngest brother suffered the most from her lunacy.

[madbrian]

Posted: 5/28/11 at 12:03pm

Team Phyllis, but could be Team Stella/Hattie/Carlotta

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 5/28/11 at 1:55pm

I think IN BUDDY'S EYES is at least partly delusional, he has had affairs and perhaps one long term mistress, and Sally must know. In this song/monologue she is convincing herself that she is happy, the trick is that the singer must firmly believe this is true but let the audience see there's more to the story. Or maybe it is the pills, pre-N2N.

[Katia2]

Posted: 5/28/11 at 5:16pm

Very much Phyllis. I have no sympathy for Sally, she's just delusional. Phyllis owns herself and is completely fabulous. Prefer her songs to Sally's too.

[MermansMan]

Posted: 5/28/11 at 5:20pm

PalJoey, that was THE best analysis I have ever heard of a musical theatre character!!!

On a different note, Sally sings my favourite song from the score, but I am always more drawn to Phyllis... It's a tie for me...

[strummergirl]

Posted: 5/28/11 at 5:32pm

Team Phyllis. I personally found Phyllis just as heartbreaking as Sally. But it is really about how much I enjoy her numbers. She deserved better.

[Matt2]

Posted: 5/29/11 at 12:33am

Since we're already discussing who we like more, I would like to ask a related question. If the current Kennedy Center production of "Follies" transfers to Broadway, which performance has the better chance of winning the Tony: Bernadette Peters' Sally or Jan Maxwell's Phyllis? Or do you think either performance is worthy of the honor? And do you think one part is juicier than the other? I know the discussion of whether an actor wins an award because he/she is good or because the PART is good is something frequently discussed and debated here.

(Sorry if this post is a little long-winded. I just have been thinking about this since the Follies threads have started up and I wonder what all of you think on this subject.)

[scott68]

Posted: 5/29/11 at 1:27am

Matt2, just having seen the show this afternoon, I'd say barring a weak year neither would hypothetically be a strong contender for the Tony, which I don't mean as a knock against the show. Jan Maxwell does an admirable job and hits all the right notes, but for some reason her Phyllis feels much more featured (as opposed to leading) compared to say, Donna Murphy in the Encores! production. As for Bernadette, she acquits herself as well as could be expected, but I never got over the impression that she's very miscast in the part.

In either case, I'm very much Team Phyllis.

[chewy5000]

Posted: 5/29/11 at 1:41am

Phyllis really speaks to me with her biting cynicism.

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 5/29/11 at 1:51am

Sally.

The character always interested me more. To ME, Phyllis knew who she was more than Sally, and it is Sally who "grows" more. I know she doesn't change that much, but there is something about Sally that makes me just want to root for her. It's so Sally.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 5/29/11 at 2:01am

Go Team Sally,
I'm on anyone's side who uses the word: umpteen.

[devonian.t]

Posted: 5/29/11 at 2:29am

Sally demands our sympathy while Phyllis earns it.

Given the choice, I'd be at the bar with Stella.

PS Curtain-P-D, I've got that Aronson design book and I love it!

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/10/11 at 5:13pm

Bump for wiggum2 and AwesomeDanny

[BroadwayFan12]

Posted: 12/10/11 at 5:30pm

They're both interesting characters who are open to interpretation. I think Phyllis is a little more sympathetic, but I identify more with Sally, so Sally it is.
Updated On: 12/10/11 at 05:30 PM