She's Back! CARRIE - First preview !!! - Page 32

[MSmith2]

Posted: 2/15/12 at 1:00pm

I'm surpirsed by this assessment of her "power". In the movie she pretty much does the same thing:
lightbuld in locker room
ashtray in pricipal's office
Kid on the bike
she breaks a mirror in her bedroom
closes the windows
and hen destroys everyone at the prom
Here she does the lightbuld, knocks the kid off the skateboard, levitates the Jesus statue in the closet, moves three chairs, closes the windows. Then the prom. And sings about her developing power. It seems like any more would be hitting us over the head. It seems pretty clear that she has the power. And when she's humiliated at the prom that gives her the strength to really destroy things. Liek those adrenaline rushes that enable people to lift cars up to save someone pined underneath. When I saw this I thoguht everything tracked logically, even the leaps of imagination we are asked to take (which I did gladly and found were rewarding significantly by the end of the show.) I totally understand wanting it -- or any other material I love and feel a persoanl connection to -- to be like WE imagine it or want to it be, but that can never be the case. On it's own terms, I think this production of Carrie is quite rewarding. And of course it's still in previews. I thought it was pretty great on the whole.

[best12bars]

Posted: 2/15/12 at 1:37pm

I have to say one of the coolest things Carrie does in the film is put the mirror back together again before her mother comes in the room. That impressed me a lot more with the extent of her powers, because it wasn't just about strong emotional responses triggering her powers, and then having her go off like a halfcocked pistol, this showed that she could control things, down to the most minute detail and level.

Also, when she pins Margaret down on the bed twice before leaving for the prom. The first time, it's from an outburst ... the second time, she does it almost as if brushing her aside.

She has clearly taken control.

I'm not sure how they're being presented in the musical, but the impact was certain raised in the movie by two things: Spacek's visceral facial expressions whenever something "telekinetic" happened, and the "slashing" strings in the music score, which was a direct nod to "Psycho." That helped make those moments really stand out.

[Owen22]

Posted: 2/15/12 at 7:33pm

MS, as Best mentioned, in the film (and novel and original musical) her power is tested on her mother. Not just comically knocking someone off a three inch skateboard (the child in the film is pushed from his bike and is slightly hurt). By using her power to connect with a human body, to see the potential damage she COULD do...perhaps is what I felt was missing.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 2/15/12 at 7:56pm

I'm not really sure we can say the kid on the bike was hurt, he came off the bike the same as the kid comes off his skateboard in the show. Plus who knows if the boy was hurt in the film since the kids fake voice is so distracting lol

Updated On: 2/15/12 at 07:56 PM

[ComingUpRoses2]

Posted: 2/15/12 at 9:00pm

You know Betty Buckley was the voice of the kid on the bike in the movie? haha! The boy was apparently Brian De Palma's relative and you can hear his real voice in the trailer for the movie. Not sure why it was dubbed. Maybe he didn't have the right inflection that De Palma wanted or something.

Still, it's a fun little fact.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 11:32am

There is a funny thread on ATC about CARRIE, with several posters coining a new phrase "flopholic" for those who fetish flop musicals and "Carrie Syndrome" for those fetish floppers who dwell so long they start believing the material is 'actually good'.

Our own Newintown actually did an anylasis of the lyrics to "When There is No One" that made me laugh....

I've done it before and will do it again - I disagree that the Margaret/Carrie songs are good - I think by comparison to the awfulness of the rest of the show, they give an illusion of being better than they are.

I mean, these lyrics to "When There's No One" strike me as the self-indulgent bad poetry of a semi-Goth 15-year-old girl idly considering doing a bit of cutting:

When there’s no one
There is darkness
When the light that used to shine
That once was mine
No longer glows
And there is no sun
When there’s no one
(did this stanza actually say anything?)

When the sun dies
There is silence
When the tune that filled my days
No longer plays
The room is still
And there are long sighs
When the sun dies
(ditto)

Was I so foolish to think I could pray
When there’s only one chance I could save you
I gave you life, I can take it away
Let the shadows descend like a knife
(oh, dear...)

But when I am all alone
Will I cry, Carrie?
Oh, my Carrie
(oh, my, indeed)

Who will hold me
When there’s no one
When the smiles I used to see
Are not for me
(I beg your pardon? What smiles did you "used to see?" Who were they for?)

What will I do?
Nobody’s told me
Who will hold me

There is no sun
When there’s no one

[newintown]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 12:01pm

Glad you enjoyed that, MB. I will never understand how anyone could listen to the sophomoric nonsense that is Carrie the Musical and find it any good, but then, there are several much-more-popular works about which I would say the same thing...

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 1:09pm

And I'm sure newintown, even you have a show or two for which you have a special affinity despite its flaws or apparent lack of merit

[philly03]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 1:09pm

Saw this last night. Thought it was very fast paced, but rather dull, not particularly funny or entertaining at times either.

I actually miss the old opening of "In" (I like the Sue interrogation though) set with the crazy dancing and upbeat song in gym class. I also thought Margaret "locking" Carrie into the closet during Eve Was Weak wasn't dramatic enough - too bad they can't have the perks of a below stage trap door again. I'm actually surprised how little we see or hear of Margaret.

"Do Me a Favor" is still one of those awful songs, and perhaps the dumbest song of all time is "Once You See" which lyric follows up with "you can't unsee," which reprises as a terrible finale!!! Michael Gore's music may be decent at times, bad at others, but those lyrics by Dean Pitchford are simple awful.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 1:14pm

I do enjoy a good analysis and regarding that song, I start off on newintown's side, but when it just becomes snark without any actual analysis, I think he fails to make his point. For example:

(did this stanza actually say anything?)
Yes, but not much

(ditto)
Excellent and appropriate response to the repetitive lyrical theme

(oh, dear...)
Comment devoid of information

(oh, my, indeed)
Funny satire on the lyrics, but again, no information

(I beg your pardon? What smiles did you "used to see?" Who were they for?)

Sounds like a critical fishing expedition. I find it hard to believe you don't know what she's saying or means. Sounds pretty clear to me, especially following the rest of the previous lyrics. How literal do you need lyrics to be?

I love the tune, but I do think the lyrics not only attempt to make Margaret a sympathetic character, but muddies her motives, especially when she comments on the foolishness of her own prayers. Again, I think it is a beautiful melody, but the lyrics are all wrong for the character.

[newintown]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 1:20pm

Oh, definitely, MB, there have been several flops that I thought were pretty good: Scottsboro Boys, A Catered Affair, Tintypes, Grind. Maybe a few more.

But I've been thinking this morning about really bad writing, and how it can appeal to certain audiences. I remember an episode of Merv Griffin or Mike Douglas, where Richard Burton "acted" the phone book - he read random names, but imbued the words with emotion. I know there are acting class exercises that follow the same format - invest a series of nonsense words with a story and feeling.

And I wonder if some audiences listen to their favorite performers like that: Betty Buckley might be singing the most utterly nonsensical drivel, but "she's Betty Buckley, damnit, and she's amazing" - and here is where the listener makes the weird leap - "so her words must be amazing, too!"

It's the only explanation I can come up with to explain how anyone would think that the vague and juvenile gibberish posted above ("When There's No One") is any good...

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 1:20pm

The problem is the lyrics aren't very character specific. That is (with the possible exception of the "I gave you life I can take it away" line) pretty much a generic pop ballad that could be sung by Margaret, Carrie, Sue, Grizabella or The Phantom of the Opera.

Even if the goal was to 'humanize' the character of Margaret; these lyrics don't convey much. The song "Once I Loved a Boy" mentioned earlier in the thread on the other hand was completely character driven and was essentially a musicalization of Margaret's monologue in the movie.

"When There's No One" is pretty and can be performed to moving effect, but its really not a good piece of musical theatre writing.

[newintown]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 1:24pm

Truly, Matt, I have no idea what "When the smiles I used to see/Are not for me" means.

Whose smiles? Who were they meant for, and who are they now meant for? And what do they mean?

To me, it's vague, bad poetry. "Buzzphrases," if you will.

[Kev]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 1:29pm

Saw this last night. Thought it was very fast paced...

I'm actually surprised how little we see or hear of Margaret.

I agree. Margaret's material seemed to take a backseat to Carrie's/ her fellow students' and it's a shame, since I find it to be the richest. Those moments between Carrie and Margaret felt rushed.

The preview was a mixed bag for me. The beefed-up role of Sue needed a stronger actress. The character of Margaret felt too grounded, and Ranson's Carrie came off as surprisingly confident and cocky...neither direction truly worked for me. Ultimately, though, I appreciated the seemingly heartfelt attention put into this work in progress.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 2:08pm

We enjoyed it

[MaybeN2N]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 2:10pm

I'm sorry, newintown, but those lyrics are not that vague.
From the context of the song, at the point of the lyric "All the smiles I used to see, are not for me," we already know she is imagining life without Carrie and proclaiming that she must kill Carrie in order to save her. All the metaphors so far are obviously about the absence of Carrie and this one is not difference. Carrie loves her mama and the happiness Carrie shows around her mother (albeit few and far between) is very dear to Margaret. Carrie's joy was devoted solely to her mother. Now that there's a boy that Carrie clearly loves entering the picture, Carrie's happiness is being split. The lyric obviously means that Margaret doesn't want to share Carrie's affection, or, even worse, see it leave her entirely.
Lyrics aren't meant to be completely literal and would be boring if they were. Of all the lyrics to nitpick, that may have been the worst (I can solidly admit that many lyrics in Carrie are god-awful). Logic is needed to understand any musical's lyrics.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 2:11pm

Truly, Matt, I have no idea what "When the smiles I used to see/Are not for me" means.

To me, since Margaret is only singing about her relationship with Carrie, she's referring to the smiles Carrie used to bestow upon her. Carrie no longer has smiles for Margaret and Margaret laments the loss as well as expresses jealousy that Carrie may smile for others in her life now. I didn't find this portion vague or bad poetry at all. The entire song is Margaret already mourning the loss of her daughter and committing to a life alone. I thought that was pretty clear. What I don't like is the attempt to paint Margaret as a tragic figure.

[newintown]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 2:32pm

When did Carrie ever smile at Margaret? The narrative never once intimates that there were ever any times that the two smiled and laughed with one another. All we see (in the novel, movie, and musical) is an ongoing antagonism between the two.

And that's what makes it a bad lyric.

If When (not "All," MaybeN2N) the smiles I used to see/Are not for me is referring to some imaginary smiles Carrie bestowed upon Margaret, it's just sentimental slop that hasn't been remotely earned or justified by what has gone before.

Those words describe the relationship between Laura Ingalls and her mother, not Carrie and Margaret.

Updated On: 2/17/12 at 02:32 PM

[MaybeN2N]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 2:47pm

It is true at we don't see any literal happiness between the two, however, it is firmly established that they do love each other. Although I haven't seen the current staging, I would also assume that they smile at each other during "Open Your Heart". I would assume at some point, there was more happiness as well.

However, this is a lyric. Smiles are a metaphor, not literal.

I see this more as a disappointment in Margaret's characterisation, which I realise not everyone likes.

[MaybeN2N]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 2:47pm

Updated On: 2/17/12 at 02:47 PM

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 3:41pm

How is the mezz at the Lortel?

[Marianne2]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 4:08pm

^ I didn't mind it. Just make sure you are more centered than off to the side this show. At least I found I could not see a couple of things very well on the extreme right and that's the side I sat on.

[MSmith2]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 7:19pm

I understand not caring for the lyrics (some are, admittedly, not great), but I don't really think the sentiment in the lyric of the "smiles" not being for Margaret lacks credibility. The Margaret of the new "Carrie" is clearly devout in the pleasure she derives from her religious faith and both she and Carrie are shown in this production to share those "smiles" with one another when Margaret is first shown in thrall to her faith when she is singing "Open Your Heart"and when she invites Carrie to sing with her which, at least when I saw it, Carrie does with... a smile on her face! But aside from the literal, the lyric is conveying Margaret's distress that her daughter is leaving the nest, leaving the home, and leaving Margaret. Carrie is giving her metaphorical smiles elsewhere. Margaret is jealous, among other things. I know the lyrics aren't always the cleanest or cleverest, but the melodies are genereally lovely and evocative. I've said it in a previous post, I thought the show, while not perfect, was pretty damn great. I think Marin Mazzie's take on Margaret is a surprising and bold move that TOTALLY made sense. I don't understand what all the fuss here is about - she isn't what you exactly expect and that, for me, made it thrilling. I was so happy to get something that subverted my expectations. And it sounds like they are using the previews to continue exploring things. I think it's pretty great that after all of these years we have the unexpected opportunity to see Carrie on stage because it didn't seem like it would ever happen again.

[My Oh My]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 7:38pm

I am stunned that Margaret saying her own praying was foolish to be 'out of character,' to some.

It's totally in character. She's a nutcase.

[EatTheBrownie]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 7:45pm

Again, coming out from the lurking shadows... Newintown must have lost out on a role in Carrie at some point because his consistent hate for the show and urge to put it down are really just surreal.

Thank you, darling, for deconstructing the lyrics to When There's No One. Why don't we do that for some of the "great" songs of musical theater as well? You can rip anything apart if you try hard enough.

-Losing My Mind-

THE SUN COMES UP, I THINK ABOUT YOU
(Cliche)

THE COFFEE CUP, I THINK ABOUT YOU
(What about the coffee cup? What's it doing? Backflips? Anyone else think it's odd that the coffee cup is not given an action at all? He might as well have said "TOILET BRUSH" or "KITTY CAT" His use of lyric implies that the singer is personifying their coffee cup and thinking about it for a line)

I WANT YOU SO, IT'S LIKE I'M LOSING MY MIND
(Who are we singing about here, the person in phrase one or the coffee cup?)

THE MORNING ENDS, I THINK ABOUT YOU
(Come on, we're saying the same thing as phrase one)

I TALK TO FRIENDS, I THINK ABOUT YOU
(I hope you didn't start talking about that coffee cup...)

AND DO THEY KNOW? IT'S LIKE I'M LOSING MY MIND
(We don't have a clue. The song is so vague, we have no idea if you told them or not)

ALL AFTERNOON DOING EVERY LITTLE CHORE
THE THOUGHT OF YOU STAYS BRIGHT
(Apparently thoughts can be measured by their brightness... How many watts is that memory, Mr. Sondheim?)

SOMETIMES I STAND IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FLOOR
NOT GOING LEFT, NOT GOING RIGHT
(And what exactly does standing in the middle of the floor have to do with this person she's thinking about? Or the coffee cup? There are many reasons she could be standing there. Did she mop herself in? Is she waiting for the floor to dry? Wow, these lyrics are epically vague...)

I DIM THE LIGHTS TO THINK ABOUT YOU
(This must have something to do with thoughts having brightness... Maybe she's saving on the electrical bill.)

SPEND SLEEPLESS NIGHT TO THINK ABOUT YOU
(Well if these thoughts are really that bright, I'd be kept up from all that light too, honey.)

YOU SAID YOU LOVED ME, OR WERE YOU JUST BEING KIND?
OR AM I LOSING MY MIND?
(My vote is that you went off the deep end because you're describing the memories of someone by their supposed brightness and you're singing vaguely about a coffee cup...)

And then no new lyrics are introduced... We're just treated to more and more vagueness. And "this" is Sally's 11-o'clock number.