She's Back! CARRIE - First preview !!! - Page 33

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 10:18pm

I've spoken to many people who were not overly familiar with the other production who truly enjoyed the Carrie revival. They really liked it.

I think many of the people who perseverate on the former production are setting themselves up to dislike the new version.

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/17/12 at 11:03pm

Wonderwaiter- hm, that's strange. Non whatsoever. I don't know what they're talking about!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 12:32am

brownie's analysis starts out weak and goes downhill.

[My Oh My]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 12:35am

Yeah. Talk about grasping for straws.

[EatTheBrownie]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 1:52am

Say what you will. The lyrics to "When There's No One" are much more poetic and plot specific than one of Stephen Sondheim's greatest tunes.

I'm not trying to throw Sondheim or "Losing My Mind" under the bus, I practically worship the man and feel that number is incredibly effective when performed well.

The point is, lyrically, "Losing My Mind" is one of the most repetitive and lyrically bland songs written in the musical theater cannon. Take away the music, take away the performance, and look at the lyrics on the page. That's what newintown has done with "When There's No One". There is absolutely nothing specific about "Losing My Mind". Coming from one of Broadway's most celebrated lyricists... one that has recently criticized other lyricists for their short comings in his series of "Hat" books, it's really a disappointment. "Losing My Mind" could be in any show.

Like I said, performed well in Follies, the number is extremely effective. The music raises the lyrics to a higher level and of course the book/story as well as the directorial concept for the piece give the song the appropriate weight. The lyrics aren't doing that job though.

As for "When There's No One", metaphor and poetry are used to convey Margaret's feelings of loss and abandonment at that moment. She just presented Carrie with a final out, a final means of redemption. When Carrie leaves, Margaret is not only forced with deal with the expected feelings of loss that any normal parent has to deal with when a child grows up, she's also forced to deal with her daughter's death. Carrie is the only "light" Margaret has left. Once Carrie is gone, Margaret will have no one else to speak to... there will be plenty of "silence" as she spends the rest of her existence alone. The bridge to the song is extremely haunting... by reprising the "Evening Prayers" melody, which is sung at a moment in the show when Margaret is in a much more sane state confessing her apologies and love to her daughter, you see the real horror in the show. Margaret is completely lucid when she makes the decision to take Carrie's life. It comes from an extremely honest and loving place... it's absolutely chilling. They're not using that melody arbitrarily. But what is really brilliant about the song is after the bridge, though. All of a sudden shades of jealousy creep into lyrics. The entire song we've heard Margaret talk about her losses when Carrie is gone, but it isn't until the end that we finally get a peek into one of the things that continues to drive Margaret mad. She talks about the "smiles" she used to see not belonging to her anymore. She's jealous of Carrie. She's jealous that Carrie might have fun at the prom. She's jealous that Tommy might actually take her away. She's jealous that Carrie might have a better life than she had. Margaret has lived turning the world against her, blaming Carrie for being a constant reminder of her shortcomings. If Carrie leaves her, she's lived for nothing. If Margaret kills her in the name of her religious disillusionments, though, Margaret still loses her daughter, but gains favor in the eyes of whatever "God" she's convinced herself she's serving.

"When There's No One" does all of that and with a beautiful melody. It's that's not a well-written song, I don't know what is.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 2:26am

Say what you will. The lyrics to "When There's No One" are much more poetic and plot specific than one of Stephen Sondheim's greatest tunes.


And I shall leave you at this point, Elizabeth.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 2:33am

^I know this isn't the place, but I've never quite understood "Losing My Mind." It's supposed to be the song she sang in the Weissman show, right? Why is it so specific to her non relationship with Ben? I've always just assumed it was over my head though instead of thinking it was "repetitive and lyrically bland." That's harsh.

[ljay889]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 2:55am

Losing My Mind and the other Loveland songs are not songs from the Weismann Follies. The numbers are a fantasy/breakdown to express each lead's "folly."

Updated On: 2/18/12 at 02:55 AM

[My Oh My]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 4:17am

I like "When There's No One" and don't think it's anywhere nearly as bad as people claim. To their credit, it does seem they were having fun with giving the song/musical Carrie a hard time. If they were completely serious, then I'd say the same thing about them that they are grasping.

The analysis was amusing and I'm not all that concerned that someone dislikes it, but I'd seriously think twice about anyone who really believes "When There's No One" is utterly useless and doesn't give even a glimmer of complexity to Mrs. White. I'm sure Ms. Buckley had a real basis for and didn't practically choke with tears during the song over nothing. The decision to stab your only child to death in order to save her must be a really difficult thing to do, even for a looney.

I still think they should stick "dirty pillows" in there in that song somewhere. XD

[theeatah]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 5:25am

"'Losing My Mind' is one of the most repetitive and lyrically bland songs written in the musical theater cannon."

I think you're missing the point somewhat. The song is written from the point of view of someone who is basically living in limbo. Sally spends much of her time in a depressed state ("in bed for days"). This is reflected in the lack of "colour" and specificity in her observations of the outside world. In this way, the sun "comes up" rather than, say, "shines" or "blazes". The coffee cup is merely there, devoid of detail. The only thing she can focus on, the only thing that burns "bright" in her mind's eye, is Ben.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 8:16am

'I like "When There's No One" and don't think it's anywhere nearly as bad as people claim.'

The funny thing is that everyone used to talk how stunning the songs is, from Broadway fans to critics, yet now the show has reopened people (on here and other theatre sites) seem to be pulling the thing apart.....how odd.

[Owen22]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 10:35am

Okay, I've tried to leave alone all you Carrie/Margaret shippers, its your viewpoint, its what you want to see even though it clearly messes with what Stephen King wrote and is apparent what is fatally wrong with this new production (again, I found their relationship in the original musical too much of a "love story between a mother and a daughter", but the new version is ridiculous). But when you start bringing Sondheim into the mix, when you start negatively comparing one of his lyrics to some of the bad MySpace poetry lyrics of that stupid "When There's No One" song, then I get pissed. Really? Really???

I have no problem with the music. It actually conveys so much more specific emotion than the lyrics' fuzziness could ever hope to. Gore is a talent, Pitchford is not.

[THDavis]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 12:54pm

I don't see how anybody could think that "When There's No One" is useless. I don't think Mazzie brings justice to the complex undercurrent of Mrs. White and that doesn't allow for the song to truly be effective. The idea is that, while Margaret White loves her daughter, she is a very manipulative and selfish woman and that is why she is truly alone. Her only friend and companion in life, aside from God, is her daughter and she will do whatever she has to to not let her daughter leave her alone.

Take "Evening Prayers". A beautiful number where we see a weaker, more tender side of Margaret. She begins by apologizing, yet justifying her actions from earlier and throughout the course of the song, she ends up manipulating her daughter into being the guilty one. The truth of it is, Carrie is alone because her mother has made her an outcast for selfish reasons.

"When There's No One" then showcases the true, weak side of Margaret. She's not a monster, she's terrified. She justifies killing her daughter by believing she's sacrificing her soul for religious purposes, but she's really doing it so that she's not left behind. I don't think Mazzie explores all dimensions of this beast of a character. I don't think she should have bowed with Ranson, rather Ranson should have had last bow at curtain. Ranson attacked the role of Carrie White and really made her a believable victim in modern times.

[Owen22]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 2:05pm

I'm sorry, a mother who plunges an eight inch butcher's knife into her unsuspecting daughter's back is, by any sense, a "monster".

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 2:16pm

So Owen when King himself has said that he believed that Margaret love Carrie the best she could but always feared her becoming a woman.....he was wrong?

[best12bars]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 2:22pm

I'm sorry, a mother who plunges an eight inch butcher's knife into her unsuspecting daughter's back is, by any sense, a "monster".

This is what comes from a society that at every turn--from the media to modern psychoanalysis--is abnormally obsessed with empathy for a heinous killer rather than the victim(s).

Whenever there's a mass murderer, a terrorist destroying hundreds of lives, or a serial rapist on the loose, or a deranged parent torturing a child, we seem to spend an inordinate amount of time and energy trying to find out "what went wrong" in their lives---to the point of glorifying them as "fallen souls" and ultimately forgiving the monstrous acts, at least to some degree if not entirely. They immediately become superstars on TV and in the tabloids ... and in modern musicals, it seems.

It's more than a little disturbing.

They should change the name of this musical to "Understanding Margaret."

Updated On: 2/18/12 at 02:22 PM

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 2:51pm

Besty, the only sense I can make out of that tendency is that the victim is gone, it's a given that we're sorry for them. But probing into the reasons for such murders could be to try (as futile as it may be) to prevent them in the future.

[best12bars]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 3:20pm

Jane, I do agree that some (perhaps many) people see the relentless probing on TV or in books, etc., as "preventative."

But when we (as a society) go so far beyond the point of knowledge and elevate and even "glorify" these heinous murderers and torturers as poor, misunderstood souls, exactly how does that prevent other people from doing it? (I'm not asking you specifically, it's an open question to the general public who does this!)

I think some people are afraid to "think bad thoughts" about them. The fear being that if we want equal justice to see them dead, we're just as guilty as they are. We have to "understand" them and "sympathize" to admonish our own evil thoughts. And I'm not even talking about religious people here.

To me it's messed up when it's taken to that extreme. When people like Margaret become victims and not monsters, there's something seriously wrong.

Updated On: 2/18/12 at 03:20 PM

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 3:55pm

You're preaching to the choir, Besty. I deplore the fact that criminals are the superstars of today. I remember that Joey Buttafuco was walking red carpets back in his glory days.

So, you and I agree!

[PalJoey]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 4:12pm

If's that's not a well-written song, I don't know what is.

Precisely.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 4:31pm

best12bars i wrote a play that opened here in Manchester in 2009 that was set on an American college campus only moments after a mass shooting by a student took place. Whilst we never met the 'killer' and focused on those who survived, the main point of our play was trying to figure out why these things keep on happening. I think it's terribly important to ask that question and find some answers, i wish more people did ask the questions and take more time to figure out what is going wrong. It (at least from my play's point of view) was not about glorifying the killer/shootings etc, it was about not simply just going 'all those kids were shot, how awful' then changing the channel until the next time it happens.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 4:49pm

Besty, I understand your point, but I also think you're oversimplifying the issue. People since the dawn of time have been fascinated by killers. People have an instinctive curiosity about what they fear and what they don't understand. It's a response to trauma. It gives people a sense of control, albeit a fake one. It isn't about glorifying anyone or making them a star.

This issue really pulls me because I think on some level everyone deserves compassion. I was really impacted by "Dead Man Walking" and I've seen Sister Helen Prejean speak several times.

I was also very moved by the film "Monster" with Charlize Theron. It was a cautionary tale to society. If you allow children to be verbally, physically, and sexually abused to the point where they are treated like an animal, then how to do we ever expect them to have a conscience or function in society. "Monster" was not about forgiving Aileen Wournos, as some argued, but about understanding where she came from.

I think the same holds true for Margaret White.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 4:49pm

Besty, I understand your point, but I also think you're oversimplifying the issue. People since the dawn of time have been fascinated by killers. People have an instinctive curiosity about what they fear and what they don't understand. It's a response to trauma. It gives people a sense of control, albeit a fake one. It isn't about glorifying anyone or making them a star.

This issue really pulls me because I think on some level everyone deserves compassion. I was really impacted by "Dead Man Walking" and I've seen Sister Helen Prejean speak several times.

I was also very moved by the film "Monster" with Charlize Theron. It was a cautionary tale to society. If you allow children to be verbally, physically, and sexually abused to the point where they are treated like an animal, then how to do we ever expect them to have a conscience or function in society. "Monster" was not about forgiving Aileen Wournos, as some argued, but about understanding where she came from.

I think the same holds true for Margaret White.

[best12bars]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 4:54pm

I think it's terribly important to ask that question and find some answers, i wish more people did ask the questions and take more time to figure out what is going wrong.

Again, I don't think "knowledge" is a bad thing. I think when it crosses the line, going FAR beyond knowledge into obsession and absolution of their crimes, that's a problem.

People have been stabbing people with knives for good reason and no reason since the dawn of man and knives. What have we learned so far? And when did society go from punishing murderers to absolving them of any wrongdoing?

[Owen22]

Posted: 2/18/12 at 4:55pm

Songanddance, I'm not sure what you are referring to.

A) My feeling Margaret didn't really love Carrie? I don't remember King ever saying he thought Margaret loved Carrie, but I'm not as invested in that type of relationship between them as you are, so I may have never noticed.

B) If you are arguing that a mother who brutally kills her child ISN'T a monster, then I'm a little bit more concerned about your basic world-view than you being a Margaret/Carrie shipper.