Sunset Blvd Changes Question- Page 3

[peterjoshua]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 11:03am

Exactly right, musical_devotee -- tehcnically, Patti WAS fired. She was contracted to do both London and New York. After her less-than-stellar London reviews (especially the one from Frank Rich), the powers that be decided to get rid of her. That's also when they made the decision to have the American premiere of the show in Los Angeles instead of New York. Patti did sue, but it was settled out of court and she received a hefty undisclosed amount. The whole thing got pretty nasty, evidently.

As far as changes to the show go -- I saw it on Broadway and on tour with Petula Clark. Most of the changes I remember have already been mentioned here -- the redesigned set, the staging for Betty and Joe "Too Much in Love," Joe's skimpy square-cut bathing suit during the title song, etc. But a few other things I remember are: the cool effect of Joe floating in the pool at the top of the show was gone, of course; "Too Much in Love" was given a soft, pretty ending instead of the big climax it originally had (that was a change I hated); the new pool was so badly designed that when Lewis Cleale fell into it, I actually saw his body bounce!

That's all I remember right now...

[dgjbear]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 11:13am

Wow...I would love to see the show on video!

Though the Patti Lupone version wasn't the first show I saw in the west end, it was the one that got me hooked on theatre, so it will always have a special place in my heart!

[Auggie27]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 11:32am

Saw Glenn in LA, and then in NY, and all the other ladies in NY.

I am in the minority, I thought Elaine was rather remarkable in the role. Yes, she borrowed shamelessly from the Gloria Swanson line readings -- but at that point, the role has changed hands often, and she would've been duplicating either the semi-comic Glenn Close, or the humorless (if musically thrilling) Buckley Norma.

Buckly was fascinating, but scored zero laughs and tended to emphasize the victimized Norma -- and turned the neediness into a poor-me. Still, the vocals soared. Glenn's performance remains controversial -- many people found her campy (Wayland Flowers "Madame" was often the comparison). But she was daring in LA, and by the time she got to NY, she knew how to make the music work for her. She strains on the CD to make a pretty sound, but in the theater, you didn't notice. When I want to listen to the show -- I still go to Glenn's, because it's the interpretation that seemed to best accommodate the emotional underpinning and satiric edge.

In recently rereading the Frank Rich review -- in London, of LuPone -- I thought he raised a fascinating question. The role of Norma was written for a massive-voiced musical theater belter. Unlike the show queen preference (guilty here) Rich actually liked all of the non-Norma music, in particular the top of the show and the title song, and felt Lloyd Weber had "written himself into a corner," because the wonderful actresses who might've played it with a fascinating edge -- Shirley MacLaine was his off-the-cuff thought -- couldn't do the music.

That proved prophetic, because Dunaway was fired for failing to deliver the vocals. But who wouldn't have killed to see her take that role on -- was anyone more spot-on? She could've Bacall-ed for me, and I think the show might've clicked anyway. Of course, she was dreadful, ghastly wrong, in MASTER CLASS, so perhaps it's wishful thinking.

Updated On: 5/15/07 at 11:32 AM

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 11:37am

After seeing the original Broadway production several times on Broadway, it was great seeing the 1st US National Tour as it was a carbon-copy recreation of the Broadway production. I remember learning it took 10 days between cities to get the show transplanted and constructed in each city. Also, the tour had to play long runs in each city to break even -- it played in Ft. Lauderdale for almost 3 months. The actors stayed in rented homes instead of the standard hotel room, which they loved. They actually got to live in each city for several months before packing-up and heading to the next city.

Watching pieces of this 1st US National Tour last night was sheer heavenly bliss. What a find!

[chernjam]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 11:46am

peterjoshua

- just one correction - the show had always plannend on opening in LA before Broadway. Initally ALW wanted to do the World Premiere in LA (since it's an LA story) but was convinced to open in London. Then the plan was London, 3 months later LA, 3 months later Broadway with Patti opening in all of them.

Patti thought that was too much to do (plus there was speculation she wanted a chance for the Oliver and the Tony award) so the plan was London and Broadway for Patti and LA would be someone else. When they announced Glenn Close, Patti was ticked off big time, but was asssured Broadway was hers and Close kept saying she was only doing LA

As much as people like to re-write history, her reviews were not good - even when people commended her singing, they said she was too young or didn't have the presence. When Glenn Close first descended the staircase in LA, Patti was done...

Man its so fun revisiting all this - don't remember a show that got this much buzz, intrigue, etc. Which is part of what made it such an event...

[Mother's Younger Brother]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 12:19pm

Sunset Blvd. is one of my top 5 favorite shows, and it's been so much seeing where this thread has gone in the last few days since I had time to post!

Just a few random thoughts...

I had tickets to see Elaine Paige in NY, but she was on a month-long vacation less than 2 months (if I remember correctly) after arriving in the production. If she brought down the grosses, my guess is that's the reason. I saw Maureen Moore in her place, and actually liked her a lot -- once I got over my not-going-to-see-a-star-Norma disappointment. Moore was a bit too cartoony in just a couple small places, but other than that, she won over the audience pretty quickly.

The only other production of the show I saw live was the 2nd national tour with Petula Clark. Like others in this thread have said, I really liked it, overall. Lewis Cleale was my favorite Joe (live or on record), and I honestly enjoyed the design and direction. BUT, Petula was awful. She sang it well, but played it like a manipulative, spoiled 12-year-old girl. There was even a scene when faked sympathy towards Joe, then turned to the audience, covered her face to hide from him, and then proceeded to practically twist her evil-villain mustache as if to say, "Muahahaa -- I've got him now!" Truly. So much of the show rests on the puzzle of somehow making Norma a sympathetic character, and poor Petula didn't even seem to try.

Regarding the Canadian recording, I really like everything about it except Rex Smith, who I just can't handle on any level. Sorry, just not a fan. But I've always enjoyed Diahann Carroll in it.

Helen Schneider is terrific on the German CD, as is her replacement, Daniella Ziegler (on her 3-track maxi).

Linda Balgord oversings like crazy on her promo cd...but then again, my experience is that she seems to oversing everything like crazy. Ron Bohmer sounds good, though.

My favorite Norma (even based on only hearing her in 3 songs) is Debra Byrne from Australia. She's incredible on her New Ways To Dream CD, and it's one of the great unrecorded-musical crimes of the century that she and Hugh Jackman didn't get their own. She has all the pathos and presence of Glenn Close, and even manages to sound a bit like her sometimes...but with an overall far stronger/more controlled singing voice.

[chernjam]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 12:52pm

mothersyoungerbrother-

Excellent call on the major missed opportunity not recording the Australian cast with Byrne and Jackman. And you're right - Byrne sounded phenomenal as Norma. I loved her voice and the pics of her - she looked fantastic.

It's a shame that production seemed cursed with the tragic death of the Musical director I think the night before it opened (or the night before previews started) - and then I think Byrne got sick or injured during her run. I just remember that they had all kinds of problems which coincided as the productions everywhere (NY, London, Canada, US Tour) all seemed to implode at the same time.

I remember reading an investor at the time of the NY closing in the NY times fuming about the bungled, mismanagement of the show - which I think he was correct about - if they had trimmed costs maybe about 100,000 a week, it would have been a bonafide hit. It had returned about 85% of its investment by the time it closed in NY.

As you see - have tons of useless knowledge on this subject that causes me to go off in countless diversions... :)

Jim

[musical_devotee]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 1:01pm

Re Patti and the critics: I think I read somewhere that the negatieve reviews came mostly from the US, while the London ones were more positive.

Can other fans here drop few more lines about this?

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 1:08pm

I'm sure I'm not the only one with a full show audio of Debra Byrne and Hugh Jackman in the show. Simply putting it on CD (one CD for each Act) would be the closest to an Australian Cast Recording of SUNSET BLVD. you'll get.

[Flight0017]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 1:11pm

More random stuff:

The final months of the German production was apparently plagued with massive financial problems. I read that the people working on the show had to go months without receiving a pay check. Also, I've herad that one of the German Normas tried to steal some of the costumes. Maria M., perhaps?

In 2005, The Production Company in Melbourne, Australia, staged a concert version of the show. I attended all five performances, and for the first time I was almost more interested in Joe and Betty, than Norma. I always felt that, particularly Betty, was an incredibly dull character, but Chelsea Plumley made Betty into a fascinating and three-dimensional character. Did anyone else get to see the performance in Melbourne in 2005?

[Mother's Younger Brother]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 1:35pm

Is anyone out there familiar with a German musical theatre star named Pia Douwes? She's actually Dutch, but made a name for herself in the German musical Elisabeth, and has since been in Evita, 3 Musketiere, and Chicago (as Velma in London and on Broadway). She's been quoted as saying her dream role is Norma Desmond...I think I'd die if she ever actually got to do it. She's diva of an actress with one of the most amazing voices I've ever heard.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 1:35pm

"When Glenn Close first descended the staircase in LA, Patti was done..."

Too bad she stank in the role.

She was terrible on opening night in LA, and became a cartoon charachter by the time she hit NY.

Her make-up on the Tony Awards that year was a caricature.

[Sant]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 1:44pm

As for the changes, I guess the biggest changes to the show between London and LA were lowering some keys (esp. "With One Look") for Close and Norma's "attack" on Joe in her first scene; "Once upon a time, not long ago..." was originally

"There was a time in this business You wouldn't remember!
We had the eyes of the whole wide world!
But that wasn't good enough for those Einsteins in the front office!
They wanted the ears of the world as well!

So they took all the idols and smashed them..."

The first section was sung in a different melody than the "Once upon..."

* In NEW WAYS TO DREAM the song ended with a fragment of WITH ONE LOOK ("They don't see where the future lies! They don't recognise a star!")

* Joe & Betty's dialogue after AS IF WE NEVER... was re-written, in the original version Betty was more blue-eyed and "innocent", in the re-write she became more reserved(?) towards Joe.

* GREATEST STAR OF ALL reprise, the original version (on cd anyway) was shorter. In LA it was written longer with "So I play this game..." verse added.

* FINAL SCENE, the SURRENDER reprise wasn't on the London cd, the "When he scorned me I knew he had to die..." part.

I've actually seen Patti's version of the final scene WITHOUT the WITH ONE LOOK reprise in the end ("This time I'm staying...") before the blackout! I don't know what that was all about, just a 'one-time' experiment or what. She just did the speech and then the orchestra took over. That's how you hear it on the London recording too!

[[e-mail]]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 1:57pm

As I recall, the London Cd's enclosed Libretto has an ending where the show would have ended with the "As if we never said goodbye" melody. That could have been quite interesting, wonder why it was dropped.

I've always thought the ending is one of the worst parts. The final scene begins with that great, powering orchestra, and somehow needs more of a "push" at the end.

I'm going to listen to my Final Scenes right now lol!

[Sant]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 3:16pm

anthonyc:

Wrong, the show wouldn't have ended with "As if we..." according to the London cd's libretto. Instead, there was a part of the song in the middle of Norma's famous final speech:

"I promise you I'll never desert you again!

(SINGING)
I've spent so many mornings
Just trying to resist you.
I'm trembling now
You can't know how I've missed you!
Could I stop my hand from shaking?
Has there ever been a moment with so much to live for?

(SPOKEN)
This is my life. It always will be...."

I'm glad this was changed!! And the fragment of the song wasn't included in the recording.

The show was written to end with "With One Look" reprise and the final notes of the title song. Just like it did.

I think it is a powerful ending! And as Glenn Close and Diahann Carroll's recordings show, using a reprise from "With One Look" at that point (Norma singing "This time I'm staying..."), when Norma thinks she's back in the studios, works very well.
Updated On: 5/15/07 at 03:16 PM

[musical_devotee]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 3:21pm

I agree, it's only a shame it's not on the London recording as well.

[chernjam]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 3:33pm

Part of the problem with the London recording was it was a rush job do get done. They wanted to get the score released since there was so much international interest in the show, and so little of the music had been heard (whereas in the past with ALW, a bunch of the songs were released as singles that had chart success - ie - Love changes everything from Aspects, as well as Seeing is Believing, The First Man You remember were all released prior to Aspects opening and did well on the charts)

Other than Streisand recording and releasing With One Look and As If we Never Said Goodbye in late June of 1993 -- actually on the date that previews were suppose to start in London, the public hadn't heard any of the music.

So they rushed after the opening and had it released in London in early August. In those pre-internet days, I had to look long and hard in "import CD stores" and by luck (and with sheer joy) found it in late September paying about 50 bucks for it.

Because they rushed it though, they were in the midst of rewriting stuff all over the place - especially the finale. The finale recorded wasn't the one being used by the time Sunset opened. It might have been the Sydmonton Festival (workshop of Sunset) version - which if you read the liner notes, some of the orchestrations and even some of the recording comes from that workshop of Sunset.

To show the extremes - when LA was opened and a huge success/prior to Broadway being given to Close - they started recording the LA Cast recording and the rumor was that when Patti came to NY a Broadway cast recording with her and the NY Cast would be made to replace the London one. The recording started in Jan 94 and the second day it was suppose to continue, there was an earthquake in LA that ruined what had already been recorded.

So they waited a few weeks - and by then it had been decided Close was coming to Broadway and the LA Cast Recording became the American Premiere Recording. They went all out hiring a 100 piece orchestra for it. I remember reading the story in Billboard magazine about how extravagant a thing it was. The sad thing is it doesn't sound as full, lush as the German or Canadian orchestrations... perhaps someone has bought the remastered one and can tell if it sounds better.

Jim

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 3:37pm

Yes, I would really like to know what the packaging for the remastered LA cast is like too.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 3:41pm

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 3:45pm

I mean the inside. Like are there more pictures and stuff? and isn't that the original release?

[husk_charmer]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 4:42pm

Brody-
You're right...I also have several audios from the varying productions (Altho not Clark or Caroll, so I can't speak on either).

Buckley is STILL my favorite, by far. She was just sooooo creepy in the final scene. I still get chills.

I always thought LaStriesand should do the film...her vocals are great, and she's one helluva'n actress.

[Sant]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 5:26pm

"They went all out hiring a 100 piece orchestra for it. I remember reading the story in Billboard magazine about how extravagant a thing it was. The sad thing is it doesn't sound as full, lush as the German or Canadian orchestrations... "


Not true.


L.A. cast recording's booklet/libretto states it had a 22-piece(!!!) orchestra - not 100.

If it doesn't sound as full or lush as the Canadian recording, well maybe it has something to do with the fact that they had 33 ADDITIONAL MUSICIANS playing on the Canadian recording! 56 in total! More than twice the size of the L.A.recording's orhcestra.

[simon_wilkie]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 6:15pm

Wow, what a can of worms has been released here!

I'd have to say that this Patti business is all a bit confusing. It seems as though the only person who really knows the truth is Patti herself (or ALW of course!). But since she doesn't comment on the matter it is likely to remain a mystery until she releases her autobiography!

I agree with Auggie. Elaine is by the far the best musical Norma! Saw her in London and was blown away. If she reads the lines a la Swanson, surely that it a great thing? No-one will ever embody the character as much as her. I feel that instead of reinterpreting an already perfected part, learning from the master was a good bet.

I still want Glenn to get the part. I have really big hangups about giving roles to people who weren't in the stage productions. My mind always wanders to Antonio Banderas and Gerard Butler and I cringe.

I'm also quite fond of the original set design. It was so beautiful. You hear stories of the mansion getting applauded when it was lowered onto the stage- quite an achievement. It seems a problem for Nunn productions in general though that experimental or ambitious scenery lets him down. I blame the failure of WiW on the fact that audiences just weren't ready for CGI theatre! Obviously it does work sometimes as Les Mis and Cats shows but for such great productions it seems worth the gamble.

I think that when the show is reset in sparser situations it takes away some of the power and mythology that lies behind Norma and her rotting away "like Miss Haversham" in her old relic of palace. She would have been a former goddess of the silent screen and Nunn's (or Napier's to give credit!) stuffy, overwhelming mansion surely reflects this.

Also, the show WAS originally supposed to end with AIWNSG. The complete PREVIEW libretto is available in George Perry's book (no I'm not on commission!!!), which again I fully recommend to see how the show was originally conceived BEFORE the OLC and BEFORE the LA recordings of the show.

I just think that this discussion and interest goes to show what a great musical Sunset Blvd is! And how silly the RUG is for not putting on another production (ideally without Bill Kenwright's two cents!). Someone mentions earlier about the production rights. I'm still holding out for the explanation being that ALW plans to put on a new production. Alas I feel I live in hope. He's found his kitsch niche with tacky reality television casting!!!!!!!!

Simon

[chernjam]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 6:20pm

Simon -

Agree with you on that - one shudders to imagine next year's BBC reality show "NEW WAYS TO DREAM" where Normas are cut as they are sung off to "Surrender"

I loved the mansion in the first production - was amazing, stunning to look at. But the show itself was a strong and interesting with the 2nd US tour production. I'd be happy to see that set than no Sunset at all.

Jim

[Mother's Younger Brother]

Posted: 5/15/07 at 6:25pm

Let me add another approval of the original set design. While I had no problem with the smaller, 2nd national tour set, the original design was one of the most gorgeous, technically effective sets I've ever seen. The sheer mechanics of watching the set effortlessly transition from one scene to the next was awe-inspiring.

Then again, I've never been one to latch onto the notion of so-called "overblown" sets. I think theatre should be theatrical, and as exciting for the eyes as it is to the ears and emotions. Bad design is bad design, whether it's large- or small-scale. Either it's consistent with the tone of the show, or it isn't.
Updated On: 5/15/07 at 06:25 PM