Sutton Foster's Jennifer Holiday Impression — Page 2

^That's a slight improvement on your earlier analogy, but I think you're still missing the key point, which is that Pluto's designation as a planet does not effect Pluto in any way (because it's inanimate, and billions of miles away). Whereas something that was once considered acceptable behavior still had the power to harm marginalized people EVEN DURING the time period in which it was considered acceptable.

A better analogy might be the culture around cigarettes and second hand smoke - except even that analogy is imperfect, in the sense that individual people don't have the ability to conduct their own scientific studies on the effects of cigarette smoke, whereas people in 2010 had the ability to ask Black people how they felt about certain comments/behaviors.

Again, I'm not advocating for ruining the careers of AKB or Foster, because I agree with you that the context, and the large gap in time, are important factors. But it's important to remember that things can cause harm even when we aren't/weren't aware of it.

Sorry if this is controversial but the AKB recording is reprehensible behavior for anyone. He and I are of similar ages (I'm a bit older actually) and I can't imagine ever in my time performing, (even as a student before I was a professional) even thinking of going on to a stage and doing anything remotely resembling that. It's shameful.

morosco said: "Is Shocantelle Brownokurrr with everyone?."

I miss the world two minutes ago where I didn’t know this existed.

ctorres23 said: "I think the difference is that I'm using the analogy to represent the broader circumstances around whether something is socially acceptable, rather than the more nuanced question of whether specific individuals might be harmed."



Both of these angles are important to consider. I’m not dismissing the former, but you seem to be dismissing the latter. There is no point in discussing “offensiveness” in a way that divorces it from examining harm (direct or indirect, individual or systemic, intentional or unintentional). Because that’s the whole point.

And yeah, I’m sure there are things that I regularly do today that I will someday learn perpetuate harm in some way. And maybe the reason I don’t realize it is because I see others doing the same, and no one around me is saying it’s wrong. But If/when I gain that knowledge, I will do my best to adjust my behavior. And yes, I’ll hope that people don’t actively seek to punish me for things I did before I had that insight. But I also won’t look back on those actions and think “yeah, I was definitely right at the time.”



morsco said: "Is Shocantelle Brown okurrr with everyone?."



No, for all the same reasons. It was mentioned in this board last year, and even in 2010 there were some who thought it might be offensive, even if their objections weren't particularly well-received by the board:

https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?thread=1019168&page=1

JBroadway said: "And yes, I’ll hope that people don’t actively seek to punish me for things I did before I had that insight. But I also won’t look back on those actions and think “yeah, I was definitely right at the time."

I'm a full-on carnivore but I am reasonably convinced that in 50-100 years the idea that we systematically create and then slaughter billions of animals so that we can eat them is going to become a point of contention. I can't even really morally justify it now, so I just try to ignore the realities of it in order to continue to enjoy that delicious chicken and beef.

JBroadway said: "https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?thread=1019168&page=1"

Damn, this is a phenomenal time capsule for how this stuff was perceived at the time.

Updated On: 6/11/21 at 06:38 PM

PutonyourWarPaint said: ""she was NOT doing a generalised re-interpretation of a song standard that belongs to a black performer in the show"

Correct. You're thinking of Andrew Keenan-Bolger...



"Ah man, that is bad. Really bad. Shame on them performing it and that cackling audience.

Ok, the term "cancel culture" may be over the top. But there is a mob mentality over things that are in the scheme of things trivial.

What's more, the energy that goes into criticism of individuals over their trespasses is a huge distraction from energy that should be going in true progress. We live in a world of optics and virtue signaling.

If a great many people would relish attacking celebrities over their wrongs a little less and relish contributing to collective change and progress vis a vis the same ills, the world would be a lot better place.

I also feel that if Foster were to do a concert today, she probably wouldn't sing that song, or if she did maybe not sing it in a "Jennifer Holliday-ish" way. I still don't know why we are able to judge someone's actions from 10 years ago with modern sensibilities. I sure as hell know I'm not the same person I was 10 years ago, and I don't think anyone can really argue that they haven't as well.

Also, where is the conversation about "Jagged Little Pill"? I guess that weekend we were all upset and arguing about it has past, and now it doesn't matter? I'm sure it will come up again, at Tony's and when the show reopens, but then another show will open and we will move on. We can't just make a Tweet, and then feel like we have accomplished "sticking it to the man", like every cause that happens these days.