The Heckler: Why I'm allergic to Stephen Sondheim — Page 2

Compare Sondheim to dining.

Sondheim is like dining at a fine restaurant.You may not like or understand some things on the menu. On the whole, you are glad you came as you enjoyed your meal. Other composers are like the Olive Garden.Some are somewhere in between.

With Sondheim, you have to carefully study the menu and think about wine. With others, burgers and fries and a coke.

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The problem with the dining analogy is that some people don't like fish, no matter how much I do, so telling them that Le Bernardin is the best restaurant in New York doesn't alter the fact that they are not going to enjoy it.

Or maybe the analogy works after all, and the problem is with your use of it...

Maybe people do not like broccoli either

I was just drawing an analogy. If one wanted psychoanalysis, they would see a shrink. Analogy was what I was aiming for - not the latter.

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Roxy,

Since when does it require psychoanalysis to identify shoddy reasoning? Your use of the analogy was flawed.

lol

Exactly. Glee has actually saved lives, according to the tons of mail the executive producers received. Because of the subjects and the way they handled them in the show. I wouldn't negate that if I were you. And that is a whole different story that goes far beyond just "appreciation" of a style, which is what we are discussing here.

"Also, considering Joe Average has most likely not seen a Sondheim musical, I doubt something like that is what would spring to mind when asked about musical theatre."

And yet, both things look and sound exactly alike.

Updated On: 3/22/15 at 02:18 PM

Yeah, Sondheim isn't even on the radar of most people who hate musicals.

Ask someone who hates musicals, and they're MUCH more likely to bring up a traumatic childhood viewing of "The Sound of Music" or "My Fair Lady" or "West Side Story" than "Pacific Overtures" or "Sweeney Todd." They associate musicals with "corny" stories of singing nuns and dancing gangsters, not murderous barbers. And the fact is, no matter the subject matter, some people simply can't handle characters bursting out into song - it's just not realistic, you know (as opposed, of course, to the utter realism of your average action film or romance that many of those same individuals will be quick to declare "totally awesome.")

Also, while everyone is entitled to their opinion, I'm kind of baffled by someone who complains about repetitiveness and declares "most" of Sondheim's lyrics "unnecessary" while holding up "Miss Saigon" (a show I quite like) as an example of purposeful songwriting. Without denigrating Boublil and Maltby, I'll just say that I can think of few other lyricists who are able to pack so much meaning and purpose into each line as Sondheim.

Updated On: 3/22/15 at 02:29 PM

If you're new to Sondheim, Sweeney Todd is a good start.

"And has he ever written a world class song?"

"Send in the Clowns"

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I think Send in the Clowns is as famous as ...Argentina, Memory, and other songs you named. It's been covered by artists ranging from Cher to Placido Domingo to Peter Criss to Krusty the Klown. It was in the Billboard Hot 100 on 2 separate occasions. It won the Grammy for song of the year.

I'd argue it's more well known to the general public then many ALW songs.
The Wiki history of Send in the Clowns

"farfetched melodies" is a nonsense phrase."

You may be right. Most Sondheim melodies are actually extremely simple, but they very often seem to avoid the heart of what the lyrics are trying to say. That's actually where Sondheim always loses me. Too simple, distracting, uninteresting melodies combined with farfetched lyrics.

Updated On: 3/22/15 at 03:03 PM

""Also, considering Joe Average has most likely not seen a Sondheim musical, I doubt something like that is what would spring to mind when asked about musical theatre."

And yet, both things look and sound exactly alike."

So you've done a survey?

Did you do in the same place you once claimed BD Wong was more recognizable than Hugh Jackman?

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If you think that Sondheim has simple melodies, you have clearly never attempted to sing one. Any singer can tell you that they are difficult songs to sing. Not necessarily because of range but due to the complicated intervals and rhythm.