Tony race for Best New Musical — Page 2

Kad said: "Ensemble1665759202 said: "Kad said: "Listen, I am not and never have been somebody who thinks the label of "original" automatically makes a new musical worthwhile or superior to one adapted from an existing property, but if we are now labeling a musical based off a century-old piece of intellectual property "original," then the term no longer means anything."

Ughh were you one of those people arguing Hamilton wasn't an original musical? lol"

There is literally nothing wrong with a show being an adaptation. It is not a dirty word and it does not make a show inferior. Most musicals are adaptations!"

I think it's two different things - taking a known IP and writing a fully original story around it (like this is) versus an adapting an existing story. Betty Boop has existed as a character, but this musical isn't adapted from any of her cartoons or their plots. It's similar to Annie or the Barbie movie in that way - existing character, putting her into a fully new story. I'd call all three of them original.

I mean in the strictest way I don't disagree with you, but it also depends if we're defining original as "first/origin" vs "innovative/creative" - they're both common definitions of original, but in my mind it's more the latter. If we're discounting all shows that reference an existing character, take reference from a book or movie, any existing music... we're left with verrrrry few shows. Something like Rent, even though it has its La Boheme source material, I'd refer to as an original musical. Something like Hairspray, even with fabulous new music and a new conceit, I wouldn't. But it's all a bit grey.

bjh2114 said: "Robbie2 said: "Thinking now that BOOP received positive reviews and it's original it will make the list but not win Best Musical

BOOP

Buena Vista Social Club

Dead Outlaw

Maybe Happy Ending

Operation Mincemeat

***Real Woman Have Curves

***Will it bump one of the above?"

Based on early word of mouth about Real Women Have Curves, I imagine it'll be nominated. Despite Boop's good reviews, I think it's probably the one that gets knocked off the list based on the overall better reviews of the other shows (and the reputation Dead Outlaw had off-Broadway). But who knows... maybe this is the year we'll get 6 nominees!"

Why can't there be 6 shows nominated? I realize the number of new musicals are different year to year but there are some great shows out there now. Why not do as the Oscar's do?

These Boop reviews certainly help its chances.

I still think there are three locks in Dead Outlaw, Maybe Happy Ending, and Operation Mincemeat. And the last two slots will go to some combination of Boop, Buena Vista Social Club, Death Becomes Her, and Real Women Have Curves.

Having seen all four, I'd nominate BVSC & RWHC. But I wouldn't be angry at DBH. I did not like Boop, so I won't be rooting for It to show up in this category. And I think the overall competition is strong enough that Old Friends will stay on the outside...even if people love it, there are plenty of actual original pieces to nominate.

JudyDenmark said: "

I think it's two different things - taking a known IP and writinga fully original story around it (like this is) versus an adapting anexisting story. Betty Boop has existed as a character, but this musical isn't adapted from any of her cartoons or their plots. It's similar to Annie or the Barbie movie in that way - existing character, putting her into a fully new story. I'd call all three of them original.

I mean in thestrictestway I don't disagree with you, but it also depends if we're defining originalas"first/origin" vs"innovative/creative" - they're both common definitions of original, but in my mind it's more the latter. If we're discounting all showsthat reference an existing character, take reference from a book or movie, any existing music... we're left with verrrrry few shows. Something like Rent, even though it has its La Boheme source material, I'd refer to as an original musical. Something like Hairspray, even with fabulous new music and a new conceit, I wouldn't. But it's all a bit grey."


Well, Barbie was nominated for Best Adapted Screenplay at the Academy Awards, not Original Screenplay. I really do think a new story using extremely established characters or properties kind of inherently makes something no longer “original” even in the broadest definition of the term. I wouldn’t call either Boop or Barbie an adaptation, per se. But neither would exist were it not for a well-established prior creation. They’re neither wholly original nor adaptations, but a sort of… continuation.

Based on very strong production, book and score, I think in my opinion these four would be nominated in all three categories:

1. MAYBE HAPPY ENDING

2. OPERATION MINCEMEAT

3. DEAD OUTLAW

4. REAL WOMEN HAVE CURVES

and I think the fifth slot and the only one for obvious reason would not be nominated for Best Score and probably won’t get in for a weak book, but production wise, resonates with a lot of people:

5. BUENA VISTA SOCIAL CLUB


If there would be a sixth slot, these three shows would be duking it out, and based on a somewhat strong score that can can get the fifth slot in Best Score and Best Book with an excellent production, the most like would be

6. DEATH BECOMES HER

and the next musicals in queue would be

7. Boop!
8. Just in Time

ggersten said: "Is Old Friends considered a "new musical" or would it be a revived "special theatrical event" category? Not that it would be nominated after the NY reviews."

It would very likely be considered as a Best Musical nominee. It's been a while, but you only have to go back to the 2013/2014 Season to find After Midnight nominated as Best Musical and that was also a revue.

I predict the nominees will be:

Buena Vista Social Club
Dead Outlaw
Death Becomes Her
Maybe Happy Ending
Operation Mincemeat

With Boop! as the only serious potential swap.

On a similar topic, do we think we will see four nominees for Revival, or will it be capped at three?"

Since there are 6 eligible Musical Revivals, there should be 4 nominees (Mattress, Sunset, Gypsy, Last 5 Years, Floyd Collins, and Pirates)

DaveyG said: "DCS said: "On a similar topic, do we think we will see four nominees for Revival, or will it be capped at three?"

Since there are 6 eligible Musical Revivals, there should be 4 nominees (Mattress, Sunset, Gypsy, Last 5 Years, Floyd Collins, and Pirates)"

Elf is also eligible."

Correct, sorry I missed that one... still only means 4 nominees. You don't get to 5 nominees unless you have 9 eligible shows. (Unless, of course there's a tie for that 4th nomination spot... then that 5th show would be added)

bjh2114 said: "Barring some crazy plot twist, I imagine the nominees for Revival will be Sunset, Gypsy, Pirates, and Mattress."

Even without having seen it and despite the fact that several posters have expressed reasonable issues with the production, I'd be shocked if Floyd Collins wasn't one of the nominees.

Updated On: 4/10/25 at 07:02 AM

The Other One said: "bjh2114 said: "Barring some crazy plot twist, I imagine the nominees for Revival will be Sunset, Gypsy, Pirates, and Mattress."

Even without having seen it and despite the fact that several posters have expressed reasonable issues with the production, I'd be shocked if Floyd Collins wasn't one of the nominees."

That's fair. I was operating under the assumption that it would be panned by the critics based on word of mouth here. But assuming it isn't, it'll probably take that fourth spot.

Are we so sure Operation Mincemeat is a lock? The response to it here was quite muted compared to its reception in London. Even the reviews marked as positive on Did They Like It mostly read as "it was fine." I think this could be the shocking omission in the top category. I too felt like it was just "fine." I was at a press performance and the crowd was politely clapping but no one losing their minds over it. And nearly everyone I talk to about it says something to the effect of "yeah, it was ok". Not exactly the type of passion that would make a voter put it at the top of their ballot. I think it definitely has a chance to miss Best Musical in favor of something like BOOP, Real Women Have Curves, or even Smash. All uplifting shows made by NYC talent/writers/producers.

I'd say the only true locks are Maybe Happy Ending and Dead Outlaw.

Then Buena Vista Social Club is next in line (even though it likely misses book and director...the energy of the show is connecting with people and the reception was overwhelmingly positive).

Then Death Becomes Her (Might not actually win any Tonys, but its a proven crowd pleaser with a huge production, and will show up in a bunch of categories, prob gets into score and book).

Then it's Mincemeat vs. Real Women vs. BOOP vs. Smash for the final slot. (unless their is no consensus on the final slot which could see a tie and the addition of a 6th nominee. With such a small pool of voters, this is a common outcome).