#51
Posted: 7/25/11 at 5:37pm
Great post, Henrik!
Unofficial but, Lauren Ambrose is rumored to be Fanny Brice. — Page 3
#52
Posted: 7/25/11 at 5:39pm
I agree with that kad and can appreciate an effort to cast the role outside of the box- although the devils advocate part of me has to kind of ask- how can Lauren Ambrose be right for both Nellie Forbush and Fanny Brice but Kelli O'Hara be, in her own words "not at all" what Bartlet Sher has in mind for the role of Fanny...
#53
Posted: 7/25/11 at 6:10pm
Michael, Lauren Ambrose and Kelli O'Hara are two very different women. I personally see Lauren as a far better choice for Fanny than Kelli, and I'm a huge fan of both actresses.
Of course, performer # 1 may be right, and even terrific, for roles A and B, while performer # 2 may be terrific for role A but not a good fit for role B. Why should that be difficult to understand?
Renee Zelwegger was IMHO a wonderful Roxie Hart, but I wouldn't cast her as Lola in Damn Yankees, in spite of the fact that both roles were Gwen Verdon successes. Bebe Newirth was a terrific Velma Kelly but I personally wouldn't think of her as a great choice for Anita in West Side Story (although I concede I could have possibly been proved wrong on that point, I'm using it here for illustration purposes), in spite of the fact that both roles were Chita Rivera successes.
Of course, performer # 1 may be right, and even terrific, for roles A and B, while performer # 2 may be terrific for role A but not a good fit for role B. Why should that be difficult to understand?
Renee Zelwegger was IMHO a wonderful Roxie Hart, but I wouldn't cast her as Lola in Damn Yankees, in spite of the fact that both roles were Gwen Verdon successes. Bebe Newirth was a terrific Velma Kelly but I personally wouldn't think of her as a great choice for Anita in West Side Story (although I concede I could have possibly been proved wrong on that point, I'm using it here for illustration purposes), in spite of the fact that both roles were Chita Rivera successes.
Updated On: 7/27/11 at 06:10 PM
#54
Posted: 7/25/11 at 6:13pm
I think she could "play Jewish" just fine.
But the "bagel on a plate of onion rolls" point is the most important. It's not enough for a Fanny Brice to be offbeat. She has to be zany in a surprising and original way. Streisand's voice was astonishing, but her comic presence was also dazzling.
Here are a few clips of the real Fanny:
First, singing "It's Gorgeous to Be Graceful," the precursor to Funny Girl's Swan Lake parody:
http://youtu.be/whJUDe32yEU
We may not find it funny nowadays, but I think everyone can appreciate the comic individuality.
Here is my favorite Fanny Brice song, "When I'm Cooking Breakfast for the One I Love":
http://youtu.be/OlyzFJwiBv8
And here she is, singing a torch song, "When a Woman Loves a Man":
http://youtu.be/SHKbdl3tKBA
And here she is as herself, in a few clips from The Great Ziegfeld. At the 6:03 point is the famous scene where she comes out to sing "My Man" all dressed up and "looking like a million dollars" and Ziegfeld (William Powell) removes all her finery and makes her look "like an urchin":
http://youtu.be/NTwq_Fxr5ak
Here's another clip of her with chorus girls from the 1931 musical Sweet and Low, singing "My Man" to "help the unemployed":
http://youtu.be/Xi5SPUAu6-k
And here's a great clip of what Kaye Ballard would have been like if she had played the part:
http://youtu.be/VU20D6iO6V4
But the "bagel on a plate of onion rolls" point is the most important. It's not enough for a Fanny Brice to be offbeat. She has to be zany in a surprising and original way. Streisand's voice was astonishing, but her comic presence was also dazzling.
Here are a few clips of the real Fanny:
First, singing "It's Gorgeous to Be Graceful," the precursor to Funny Girl's Swan Lake parody:
http://youtu.be/whJUDe32yEU
We may not find it funny nowadays, but I think everyone can appreciate the comic individuality.
Here is my favorite Fanny Brice song, "When I'm Cooking Breakfast for the One I Love":
http://youtu.be/OlyzFJwiBv8
And here she is, singing a torch song, "When a Woman Loves a Man":
http://youtu.be/SHKbdl3tKBA
And here she is as herself, in a few clips from The Great Ziegfeld. At the 6:03 point is the famous scene where she comes out to sing "My Man" all dressed up and "looking like a million dollars" and Ziegfeld (William Powell) removes all her finery and makes her look "like an urchin":
http://youtu.be/NTwq_Fxr5ak
Here's another clip of her with chorus girls from the 1931 musical Sweet and Low, singing "My Man" to "help the unemployed":
http://youtu.be/Xi5SPUAu6-k
And here's a great clip of what Kaye Ballard would have been like if she had played the part:
http://youtu.be/VU20D6iO6V4
Updated On: 7/25/11 at 06:13 PM
#55
Posted: 7/25/11 at 6:27pm
It is almost uncanny how much Streisand looks like Brice.
#56
Posted: 7/25/11 at 6:48pm
This--what's going on in this thread--has to be one of the main reasons this show has been heretofore unrevived.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
#57
Posted: 7/25/11 at 7:06pm
I can't believe all of you are getting up in arms over a post from someone who doesn't have any proof of what they are saying, and have only posted a total of MAYBE 10 posts since they joined.
"TheatreDiva90016 - another good reason to frequent these boards less."<<>>
“I hesitate to give this line of discussion the validation it so desperately craves by perpetuating it, but the light from logic is getting further and further away with your every successive post.” <<>>
-whatever2
#58
Posted: 7/25/11 at 7:08pm
^ Exactly.
#59
Posted: 7/25/11 at 8:22pm
Who is up in arms? It's just being discussed.
#60
Posted: 7/25/11 at 9:48pm
I think it's hard to cast this role now because this type of comedy has kind of disappeared. I know it's still out there, but we don't see it as much. Frankly, to me, she bears more in common with a younger Joan Rivers than anything else. Joan Rivers, at least when she started out, was definitely somewhere in the Fanny Brice tradition, in terms of a very distinctly Jewish humor.
Not adding much in terms of casting, but my (perhaps woefully misinformed) observation.
Not adding much in terms of casting, but my (perhaps woefully misinformed) observation.
Some people paint, some people sew, I meddle.
#61
Posted: 7/25/11 at 11:18pm
I suppose this would be okay. She is very talented and she did a lovely job in Awake and Sing. The only thing that bothered me was that that there was a 12 year old who couldn't believe she'd just seen Lauren on Broadway live and she waited very patiently outside the door. When Lauren came out the little girl asked very properly, "Miss Ambrose may I have your autograph please." And Lauren simply said No. Then the little girl cried. For some reason that just changed my image of her because from Six Feet Under I LOVED her and she was the main reason (second one being Mark Ruffalo) I went to see the show. I know what everyone will say. "She's not required to be nice so just get over and get a life and you're stupid for feeling the way you do." But I do.
Gypsy - Betty Buckley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUN5XoB5vFs&feature=youtu.be
#62
Posted: 7/25/11 at 11:19pm
When you're dealing with such specific parameters of who is or isn't acceptable for the role, it's just a frustrating argument back and forth, which is what I imagine the people behind this revival are also discussing at this moment. I'd be willing to guess the most likely candidates will be bandied about forever and the actual casting is going to be of something that surprises us all, much like Ambrose would've before this thread. And I think casting like that is what keeps me interested in going to see shows instead of seeing the same old thing that's already preserved on film, such as Streisand as Fanny is.
"Art, in itself, is an attempt to bring order out of chaos."-Stephen Sondheim
#63
Posted: 7/25/11 at 11:20pm
P.S. I didn't really see much of a jewish streak in her though. I don't mean that a person HAS to be jewish to play the role, but I at least they they need to potray it somewhat.
Gypsy - Betty Buckley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUN5XoB5vFs&feature=youtu.be
#64
Posted: 7/25/11 at 11:35pm
Let's be clear here: Streisand played STREISAND when she did Funny Girl. Her Fanny was nothing like the real Fanny Brice. She played herself, sang like herself and did it in the story of another woman's life (albeit brilliantly).
My question for all of YOu is: do you want the revival to star someone to play Fanny AS Fanny? Or Fanny as Streisand?
It's like the real Maria von Trapp once told me: "I WISH I had been like Julie Andrews, but sadly I wasn't. Much more like Mary Martin".
Do you want a Fanny or a Barbra? You can't have both because they were two VERY different young women.
My question for all of YOu is: do you want the revival to star someone to play Fanny AS Fanny? Or Fanny as Streisand?
It's like the real Maria von Trapp once told me: "I WISH I had been like Julie Andrews, but sadly I wasn't. Much more like Mary Martin".
Do you want a Fanny or a Barbra? You can't have both because they were two VERY different young women.
#65
Posted: 7/25/11 at 11:39pm
I agree. I would rather someone play Fanny.
Also, Just because a person only has a few posts since joining does NOT mean they are not intelligent, or that they automatically don't know know what they are talking about. I'll take breaks from the board for six months at a time or more and every time I come back I am met with several people pointing out my absence and saying that I am less entitled to an opinion. No one here is special and people need to quit acting like they are. You may be a Broadway Star or Legend on the board, but that means nothing in real life or even within the theatre community itself. Most people here are merely fans with a superiority complex. Cheers.
Also, Just because a person only has a few posts since joining does NOT mean they are not intelligent, or that they automatically don't know know what they are talking about. I'll take breaks from the board for six months at a time or more and every time I come back I am met with several people pointing out my absence and saying that I am less entitled to an opinion. No one here is special and people need to quit acting like they are. You may be a Broadway Star or Legend on the board, but that means nothing in real life or even within the theatre community itself. Most people here are merely fans with a superiority complex. Cheers.
Gypsy - Betty Buckley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUN5XoB5vFs&feature=youtu.be
Updated On: 7/25/11 at 11:39 PM
#66
Posted: 7/26/11 at 12:18am
I agree Streisand brought a lot, a lot of her own persona to the role, but if you look at the clips that PalJoey posted, besides her similar looks she also captures some of Fanny's mannerisms and melded them into her character. Fanny of FUNNY GIRL is a musical comedy portrait based on a section of Brice's life.
I think Ambrose is a viable candidate the more I think about it, some TV recognisability, great acting and comedic chops.
From the clips of her singing, yes she is very musical with an interesting take on standards, which was also Streisand's strength in her club apperances, but can she do justice to Styne's score?
Of all the great singer/actresses mentioned so far, I think she has the best chance of breaking the mold and making the role her own if Sher supports her with a great cast, design and production team.
Now we can wait for the next rumor...
I think Ambrose is a viable candidate the more I think about it, some TV recognisability, great acting and comedic chops.
From the clips of her singing, yes she is very musical with an interesting take on standards, which was also Streisand's strength in her club apperances, but can she do justice to Styne's score?
Of all the great singer/actresses mentioned so far, I think she has the best chance of breaking the mold and making the role her own if Sher supports her with a great cast, design and production team.
Now we can wait for the next rumor...
Updated On: 7/26/11 at 12:18 AM
#67
Posted: 7/26/11 at 4:29am
I LOVE Lauren Ambrose, but I think we all need to review our copies of the "Funny Girl" libretto. There ain't much there but a lot of chances for the main character to sing.
Barbra Streisand. Lainie Kazan. Mimi Hines. These are three of the great voices of the 20th century.
Lauren Ambrose is not in that league. Though I'd love to see her do some musical some time, "Funny Girl" as an entire show isn't good enough to be carried by strong acting and a loud belt alone.
Barbra Streisand. Lainie Kazan. Mimi Hines. These are three of the great voices of the 20th century.
Lauren Ambrose is not in that league. Though I'd love to see her do some musical some time, "Funny Girl" as an entire show isn't good enough to be carried by strong acting and a loud belt alone.
#68
Posted: 7/26/11 at 7:31am
Lauren Ambrose is not in that league. Though I'd love to see her do some musical some time, "Funny Girl" as an entire show isn't good enough to be carried by strong acting and a loud belt alone.
I'm not sure if you've ever seen her on stage, but to my mind, Ambrose is probably the most captivating stage actress of her generation. When she is on stage, your focus can be nowhere but on her. It goes beyond just "strong acting," as you put it, and I think it's a quality that is absolutely necessary for Fanny. As for the voice, she does have an incredible belt (I've heard her belt live, in a small space, and am convinced she could blow the roof off the largest Broadway house there is), but she's also focused a lot of her technique on jazz singing and has developed a unique style in her voice. There are any number of young belters who can walk on stage and throw off "Don't Rain on My Parade" or "I'm the Greatest Star" without the slightest hint of subtlety, but there are very few who can actually perform the role with the right amount of coloring it needs. Hypothetically speaking, I'd put Ambrose in that category.
I think BillyBoyA and Henrik hit the nail on the head: Are we expecting someone to play Fanny Brice, or to play Barbra playing Fanny Brice? If you want the latter, hire a drag queen. This to my mind is one of the main reasons the show has gone without a major revival for 50 years.
(And again, as we clutch our pearls, let's remember that this is a very unsubstantiated rumor. I doubt that the OP will return to name his/her source.)
I'm not sure if you've ever seen her on stage, but to my mind, Ambrose is probably the most captivating stage actress of her generation. When she is on stage, your focus can be nowhere but on her. It goes beyond just "strong acting," as you put it, and I think it's a quality that is absolutely necessary for Fanny. As for the voice, she does have an incredible belt (I've heard her belt live, in a small space, and am convinced she could blow the roof off the largest Broadway house there is), but she's also focused a lot of her technique on jazz singing and has developed a unique style in her voice. There are any number of young belters who can walk on stage and throw off "Don't Rain on My Parade" or "I'm the Greatest Star" without the slightest hint of subtlety, but there are very few who can actually perform the role with the right amount of coloring it needs. Hypothetically speaking, I'd put Ambrose in that category.
I think BillyBoyA and Henrik hit the nail on the head: Are we expecting someone to play Fanny Brice, or to play Barbra playing Fanny Brice? If you want the latter, hire a drag queen. This to my mind is one of the main reasons the show has gone without a major revival for 50 years.
(And again, as we clutch our pearls, let's remember that this is a very unsubstantiated rumor. I doubt that the OP will return to name his/her source.)
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
#69
Posted: 7/26/11 at 10:15am
Chichi, I'm sorry about your friend's experience, but I know people who know Lauren and she is known as being a very nice woman. My best guess is that she was having, as we all have from time to time, a bad day.
#70
Posted: 7/26/11 at 10:17am
"When she is on stage, your focus can be nowhere but on her."
That's an extremely subjective statement. In Awake and Sing, I felt that her performance was amateur night on Broadway, and that her Juliet was strictly for the small screen. For me, she is miles from being "the most captivating stage actress of her generation." I'm not saying you're wrong, but you make it sound as though you believe your adoration of Ambrose is relatively universal.
Once again, my problem with this entire idea is that the piece itself is flawed to a degree that it only works if you have a performer who simply knocks you out of your seat. The only recent example of such a thing that I can think of is Hugh Jackman in The Boy From Oz - problematic piece/super-amazing-powerhouse of a star. As charming as Ambrose can be, I don't think anyone sees her as a super-powerhouse who can hide the flaws of Funny Girl.
That's an extremely subjective statement. In Awake and Sing, I felt that her performance was amateur night on Broadway, and that her Juliet was strictly for the small screen. For me, she is miles from being "the most captivating stage actress of her generation." I'm not saying you're wrong, but you make it sound as though you believe your adoration of Ambrose is relatively universal.
Once again, my problem with this entire idea is that the piece itself is flawed to a degree that it only works if you have a performer who simply knocks you out of your seat. The only recent example of such a thing that I can think of is Hugh Jackman in The Boy From Oz - problematic piece/super-amazing-powerhouse of a star. As charming as Ambrose can be, I don't think anyone sees her as a super-powerhouse who can hide the flaws of Funny Girl.
#71
Posted: 7/26/11 at 10:41am
I largely agree with you newintown. There have been some truly excellent comments in this thread (bravo everyone) and I think the reason the show hasn't been revived on Broadway is probably articulated through a lot of what is being discussed here.
I think its true Streisand was largely playing Streisand in the role; just as Fanny always played Fanny in everything she did. So while the debate is to some degree do you cast an actress who summons the ghost of Brice or the ghost of Streisand when casting the show, the answer is you need to cast somebody who is a totally unique, larger than life personality unto themselves.
There are plenty of women over the years that I think could have pulled off the part brilliantly (and made the role uniquely their own). Carol Burnett, Kaye Ballard, Bette Midler, Sandra Bernhard, Tracey Ullman, etc. Not just because they could be funny or get through the score, or play believably jewish, but because they - like Brice, like Streisand, are true originals.
So while people are citing that there is a lot of negativity surrounding the discussion of casting this role, I think the basic feeling (which I agree with) isn't that so many of the women being suggested are 'wrong' for the role, but so few of them are the kind of larger than life personalities that the role really demands.
To me that quality is probably more essential in being successful in the part than being a great singer or even a great, nuanced actress.
The issue is in 'searching for Funny Girl', that great, one of a kind larger than life personalities aren't usually sitting around waiting to be discovered - they, like Brice, like Streisand, tend to barrel their way into recognition.
I think its true Streisand was largely playing Streisand in the role; just as Fanny always played Fanny in everything she did. So while the debate is to some degree do you cast an actress who summons the ghost of Brice or the ghost of Streisand when casting the show, the answer is you need to cast somebody who is a totally unique, larger than life personality unto themselves.
There are plenty of women over the years that I think could have pulled off the part brilliantly (and made the role uniquely their own). Carol Burnett, Kaye Ballard, Bette Midler, Sandra Bernhard, Tracey Ullman, etc. Not just because they could be funny or get through the score, or play believably jewish, but because they - like Brice, like Streisand, are true originals.
So while people are citing that there is a lot of negativity surrounding the discussion of casting this role, I think the basic feeling (which I agree with) isn't that so many of the women being suggested are 'wrong' for the role, but so few of them are the kind of larger than life personalities that the role really demands.
To me that quality is probably more essential in being successful in the part than being a great singer or even a great, nuanced actress.
The issue is in 'searching for Funny Girl', that great, one of a kind larger than life personalities aren't usually sitting around waiting to be discovered - they, like Brice, like Streisand, tend to barrel their way into recognition.
#72
Posted: 7/26/11 at 10:44am
I find it fascinating that Streisands performance is never looked on as anything other than legendary and beyond excellent, when (and please correct me if I'm wrong) not too long into the run she pretty much just started phoning it in. I've read a lot and heard from many people who were disappointed when they finally got to see her live in the role.
#73
Posted: 7/26/11 at 10:56am
Newintown, I'm aware that my opinion is my opinion, which is why I prefaced my statement by saying "to my mind, she is the most captivating stage actress of her generation"--something you left out when quoting me. You obviously don't agree, and that's your right. Also, I'm not one to run to critics to back up my point, but her Juliet was almost universally praised; she got a rave in the Times for AWAKE AND SING; and her Ophelia was singled out in more than a few reviews as the only bright spot in an otherwise dreadful HAMLET. So, my "adoration" might be closer to the way that people feel about her than your dismissal.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
Updated On: 7/26/11 at 10:56 AM
#74
Posted: 7/26/11 at 11:04am
"I'm not one to run to critics to back up my point..."
And yet, oddly, you did just that, as though you think reviews reflect a majority opinion, which (this being a democracy) we must all obey. Why you feel the need to think that your opinion is shared by the majority, and is therefore more valid, is an enigma, and one perhaps not really worth solving.
If you intended to share your opinion without making it sound as though you thought it was universal, it might have been best to write "When she is on stage, my focus can be nowhere but on her" (emphasis mine).
And yet, oddly, you did just that, as though you think reviews reflect a majority opinion, which (this being a democracy) we must all obey. Why you feel the need to think that your opinion is shared by the majority, and is therefore more valid, is an enigma, and one perhaps not really worth solving.
If you intended to share your opinion without making it sound as though you thought it was universal, it might have been best to write "When she is on stage, my focus can be nowhere but on her" (emphasis mine).
#75
Posted: 7/26/11 at 11:14am
Have we gotten to the point where every post needs a disclaimer stating that it reflects only the opinion of the writer? Seriously? I don't take your opinion to be any more absolute than you take my own. And it was not my intention to editorialize, although it is interesting to point out that the folks they pay to provide commentary on theatre seem to think she's pretty good at what she does.
If you want to approach this from a syntactical POV and go through my post with a fine-toothed comb, then yes, I probably should have said "my focus" instead of "the focus." What I posted as an opinion (and thought read as an opinion) you took to be a proclamation. Again, the things I write here reflect my attitudes alone. And I don't think my opinion is shared by a majority--YOU do. I was simply stating that Ambrose has received a slew of positive-to-rave reviews throughout her career, so your characterization of her as "amateur hour on Broadway" or strictly TV might not be shared by as many people as you think. I get the sense that you're looking for a fight and I won't give you the satisfaction. I'll simply say that you are editorializing just as much as you're accusing me of doing.
I'm not Ambrose's husband, or her mother, or her best friend. I have no connection to her in any way. I'm simply someone who's seen pretty much everything she's done in New York and thinks she's a damn fine actor. Take my posts with a grain of salt if you disagree, as I intend to take yours.
If you want to approach this from a syntactical POV and go through my post with a fine-toothed comb, then yes, I probably should have said "my focus" instead of "the focus." What I posted as an opinion (and thought read as an opinion) you took to be a proclamation. Again, the things I write here reflect my attitudes alone. And I don't think my opinion is shared by a majority--YOU do. I was simply stating that Ambrose has received a slew of positive-to-rave reviews throughout her career, so your characterization of her as "amateur hour on Broadway" or strictly TV might not be shared by as many people as you think. I get the sense that you're looking for a fight and I won't give you the satisfaction. I'll simply say that you are editorializing just as much as you're accusing me of doing.
I'm not Ambrose's husband, or her mother, or her best friend. I have no connection to her in any way. I'm simply someone who's seen pretty much everything she's done in New York and thinks she's a damn fine actor. Take my posts with a grain of salt if you disagree, as I intend to take yours.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
Updated On: 7/26/11 at 11:14 AM
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