Why Musicals SHOULD be VIDEOTAPED- Page 8

[Mamie]

Posted: 10/30/05 at 8:52pm

I am in complete agreement with those posters who say that theatre is meant to be seen and enjoyed LIVE and not on tape. I have spent many, many hours with my tail bone parked in a theatre seat and enjoying - no, RELISHING - a live performance and if I had my way I'd be doing it every week. A very few years ago I could look back on my collection of Playbills and know that I had seen every play and musical to open that season! Unfortunately, the pricing of those shows has gradually reduced my time in the theatre to its current low of only 2 shows last season and none in this.

So I agree with the thought expressed above, but not with its application today. If theatre today were truly open to the majority of people, then I say keep it live and never tape it. Unfortunately, the truth is that it isn't available to most people. As long as ticket prices range up to (and past) $100 for most seats, it will never be an option for the majority of people. Don't tell me about student discounts because the majority of people are not students. And don't tell me about standing room because the majority of people are unable to stand for the length of an entire play. And don't tell me about places like TKTS and the cheaper seats in the theatre because seats in the boxes and the far sides of the orchestra and the last row of the balcony will never encourage anyone to ever return to a theatre. Theatre must sell itself to everybody or it will become more and more a slave to those upper-income few who can afford the prices and who determine what is and what is not 'true' theatre. (No more complaining from the intelligentsia here about jukebox musicals and teenage girls in screaming contests over rock stars cast in shows! Unless you’re an upper-level, full time manager with a salary to match, you will simply have no say as to what is produced on Broadway.)

If theatre is to survive and flourish it must be made available to everyone and the only way that will happen is if the plays and musicals are recorded and released for sale to the public. NEVER should this happen while the play or show is running. In fact, I'm in agreement with waiting 3-5 years after it closes before releasing the tape. This will allow the road companies of those shows to also make what they can during their tours*. But after that, release it. The copies of tapes I have are wonderful souvenirs of shows I've seen and want to relive as I watch the tapes. Today they would be my only way of seeing the shows.


(* by the way, tickets for touring shows are also approaching $100.)

Updated On: 10/31/05 at 08:52 PM

[etoile]

Posted: 10/30/05 at 10:54pm

I find it humorous that one poster here wants to liken Doug posting his passion for his web site to that of a sleazy salesman. If we were to utilize this poster's definition of what theater should be then I think his tactics of being original, unique, inspiring, creative, moving, thought provoking and academic would indicate that he's elevated salesmanship to fine art.

I would rather applaud his effort than besmirch him.

[JayKid]

Posted: 10/30/05 at 11:13pm

To all the people against this idea - you are all retarded.

There is no reason for this not to be done. MAYBE it would be better to only have the videos sold after the show, so it is only for memory sake, or for those who weren't fortunate enough tos ee the show.

However... I think doing it while the show is still on is fine as well.

If you want to see live theatre, go see live theatre!

I agree that you need to see it live to truly get the experience. It makes it so much better and is how ti should be seen, but this does nothing but benefit the theatre world. It spreads theatre to everyone, giving them a chance to see different shows they didn't get to see, remember shows they did see, and get theatre to people who didn't know much about it before.

What is negative about this? The only thing that MIGHT be negative would be IF it were done DURING the show, than it could take away from ticket sales - although I highly doubt that. People who go to live theatre, will go regardless. I know I would, but I don't have the money to see everyone show that is out there or to see things more than once because I loved the show so much, so this benefits those people. And in doing this it also bring in more profits.

So, I doubt that will even be a problem (losing money, and people not seeing live live theatre) and if the videos were shown AFTER the shows run ended, what are the negatives?

Tell me... because I really don't see any harm in it, AT ALL.

I really think this is a great idea and deserves to be supported, I'd love to have Broadway (and off broadway, etc) DVDs... it would be awesome!

I'd still see live theatre, but I'd have a piece of the shows I loved to have forever, and get to try to remember the experience after the show was over. I could also get to see shows I missed, but desperately wanted to see. Not only that, it would help spread theatre to those who wouldn't see it otherwise... maybe bringing them to theatre finally.

This is a very beneficial idea and to those who think otherwise because theatre needs to be seen live are very close minded and to think outside the damn box.

Sorry for the long post...

[Isabella2]

Posted: 10/30/05 at 11:40pm

I’m sorry this thing got so extremely out of control and that I didn’t get into this earlier. Doug seems like a nice guy here, and people who are against the situation and being jerks about it are just exposing themselves as idiots.

First, makiemaniac “People who want shows taped so they can enjoy them in their own homes are twirts who are wither too lazy to travel to NYC to see them... or lack the brain power to retain what they have seen on stage to enjoy it forever in their memory.”

I resent that. I for one, don’t have the money to see a broadway show nor do I have the money to buy myself a pair of sneakers this year. The only reason ig ot to see sweney todd this year is becauseit was a replacement of my non-existant sweet-sixteen birthday party. People who want to see the theatre at home enjoy it but can’t afford it. Those who can afford it should go by all means. You must remember that there are definitely some people who shouldn’t be in live audiences because of their behavior who would also probably enjoy it more at home.

Also, I wanna be able to see shows that have gone off the air already. For example, Wonderful Town with Donna Murphy. I’m never going to be able to see that. NEVER. Because it was never televised when it went off broadway. If someone recorded right before it went off then I don’t see the harm in that.

Basically you should put broadway shows on ppv or whatever until it’s about to go off, or right before a cast member leaves.

Everyone who is against this and who is putting doug down should grow up. He’s said nothing so far to provoke this anger within you. You don’t need to put others down with your distasteful sarcasm and “witty” comments. Just calmly state what you think otherwise no one will respect you.

Doug, I applaud you for your effort, you kindness and you maturity. I hope you are able to do what you want to do as long as everything turns out for the better.

Best12bars I also applaud you for being supportive of this situation and for your healthy advice towards doug. You’re a saint.

For those who don’t quite understand:
Good Feedback: Calm statements that help a cause grow and fix mistakes.
Bad Feedback: Rash statements that provoke anger, fear, and annoyance.
Ex. Of bad feedback
“Well, do you expect ALL good feedback? Do you expect for your site to be a winner in everyone's book?

I expect for your damned site to be shut down, that's what I expect.”

“you wiiiiiiiisssssshhhhhhh! by the way..oooo sry GAV!! lol..”

“So, your idea of "decent" is seeing illegal bootlegs of shows?” ?--- That’s definitely not what was implied.

“*lights pitchfork* Let me at this guy!”

“yea suuure...yr TAPING A BROADWAY SHOW..how isnt this illegal?!! and u never answered my question...have you ever experienced the thrill of a live broadway show USTheater.TV ???”

“GAV: The pitchfork thing... Can I gladly join you? *Lights pitchfork*”

“well this is wht people think of your idea of tapping musicals!”

“i still dont think it is a good idea...theater should b LIVE!! wht dont u understand?”

‘"I just felt being ganged up on and bullied."’
Boo hoo.”

“I guess all it takes is a fool like Doug to promote his senseless and destructive idea for the fans and employees of the Broadway/theatrical community to stand up and take notice.”


How old are we again? Did your mother not love you enough or something?
You people just keep saying the same things over and over and over…… we get the point, and it’s not a very good one.

I think that 442namffug is the biggest hypocrite by constantly jabbing at a situation and making people angry and then saying: “Don't agree with me? Fine. Deal with it elsewhere. I don't want to hear it here.” Listen to your own advice. By the way, in that orevious statement i was personally accusing you, no mistake there buddy.

This thing will work. Just look at Saturday Night Live. Hardly anyone can get in to see it live because it’s so packed yet it’s broadcasted on tv every week.

jimmirae “You do, However, Run into a lot of very young teenage girls here who only know their Theatre from things like "WICKED" their parents bought them $100+ tickets to so they wouldn't have to endure their squealing and squeekings at home and they only love a Play or Musical for some "Hot Bod" young nobody-as-of-yet Actors in some parts.”

I’m a 16 year old female of new york city and although I have little watching experience I enjoy Sondheim, Bernstein, Mozart and more. My favorites are passion, Ariadne auf naxos, Die Zauberflote, Sweeney Todd, Candide, Le Nozze De Figaro and much more. You see? I’m not one of those girls.

[Broadway Style]

Posted: 10/31/05 at 12:31am

Oh My goodness. I just read this whole thread and I went from being outraged(at how ridiculously some posters were behaving) to laughing uncontrollably because the last 3 pages of this thread are highly entertaining.

Doug-I don't see a problem with your idea and I respect you very much for being so proactive in trying to realize your vision. HOWEVER, I just don't think it will work. Aside from all the logistical problems which everyone has recounted ad nauseum I fail to understand what the motivating factor would be for cool-seeking 18-25 year olds who do not frequent the theater to buy some $20 video of some old woman singing showtunes?
Do you have a marketing strategy to try to somehow advertise these videos to non-theater crazy young adults?

[LionessInWinter]

Posted: 10/31/05 at 12:42am

Wow, took a while to catch back up on this thread. Some pretty inane things still being said. Case in point from JonnyV....

>>>says someone who obviously LIVES in NEW YORK... and can afford to see EVERYTHING. For God's Sake... We (in the hinterlands) UNDERSTAND that live and recorded are different. If I know I love a play or musical, I will seek it out live... Just Look What the Phantom movie did for tickets. But... like SO MANY new yorkers, your opinion is very "Let them eat cake."<<<<

Ah, more sweeping generalizations from someone. This time not about lazy non-theatergoers, but about all the independently wealthy NY'rs who go to the theater nightly and then sneer at those who don't go.
Obviously you didn't read my post on page 2. I don't think SO MANY NY'rs are so different from me as far as being able to afford to see plays. Except for students, of course, which I am long past. I agree with much of what Mamie said.
Honestly, with ticket prices today, I'm curious how long most of the tourists must save up just to go to a play, let alone pay for hotel and food.

As Craig said, this was tried here and didn't work. If it works for Doug in the UK, more power to him, as long as it doesn't work to the detriment of ticket sales should they be shown during a run. I think I'd prefer to see them shown after a run is over, but if both can be supported without detriment to the theater run, then why not? Simply, not everyone can get to the theater for whatever reason, great as it is, and as much as they may want to.

You know, come to think of it, it would've been great for my mom. There was no way in hell she could sit through a play (or a movie) in a theater due to her illness, not without disturbing other people, so this would've been a great option for her (as long as there was the ability to pause it like a DVD/VCR/Video on Demand. It was one of the reasons she loved pay cable movie channels though she had to watch them several times to get the whole movie since she wouldn't be able to sit through it all at one sitting, even at home.

And iheart....please help raise your credibility a tad....your various versions of taping (tapping, videotapping) were very doubtfully typos. In all but one of the posts where you used some variation of it, you spelled it wrong. Maybe you should direct some of that hyperbolic negative energy to a spelling/vocabulary class.

[Mamie]

Posted: 10/31/05 at 12:49am

I'm looking at "The Golden Age of Broadway" DVD right now. I can't help but think that if there had been a way of recording plays and musicals, right now I could be watching any of the following:

Laurette Taylor in "The Glass Menagerie"
Kim Stanley in "Bus Stop" and "Picnic"
Robert Preston and Barbara Cook in "The Music Man"
Ethel Merman in "Annie Get Your Gun", "Call Me Madam", or "Gypsy"
Carol Channing in "Hello Dolly"
Angela Lansbury in "Mame"
Laurence Olivier, Ralph Richardson, Margaret Leighton in "Henry IV, parts 1 and 2"
The original cast in "A Chorus Line"
"Private Lives" - one with Noel Coward, Gertrude Lawrence and Laurence Olivier, and one with Alan Rickman and Lindsay Duncan (so I can make comparisons)
Julie Harris in "Member of the Wedding" and "The Belle of Amherst"
Anthony Hopkins in "Equus" (Broadway) or "Pravda: A Fleet Street Comedy" (London)

And so very, very more. Unfortunately I can never do that because those performances are gone forever. In what possible way can this be better for me or for theatre?

Updated On: 10/31/05 at 12:49 AM

[USTheater.TV]

Posted: 10/31/05 at 2:33am

Morning....

I got some sleep after running from the Broadway lynch mob.

Smoking gun ? Where ? Show me the smoking gun !! We're gonna smoke this guy out !

The posse were rounding up and they were heading my way.

Apart from the comments that Isabella highlights here there were other more assertive comments in my first posting of this idea "CRAP" and "GARBAGE" - were the comments from the same posters.

I'm glad I've had a long sleep and seen that some constructive and calm comments both for and against are coming up.

Marketing strategy ? Well see below for the polls of visitors to USTheater.TV

Where are you clicking from ?
England 7%
Scotland 7%
Wales 7%
Northern Ireland 7%
Republic of Ireland 7%
U.S.A 7%
Channel Islands 7%
Canada 8%
Rest of the world 7%
Australia & New Zealand 7%
Europe 7%
Africa 7%
Asia 8%




How often do you visit the theatre ?
Never 14%
Once a month 13%
Once a year 13%
Once a week 13%
Twice a month 14%
Once every few months 14%
More than once a week 14%


How would you rate UKTheatre.TV ?
Brilliant 36%
Good 30%
Dull 32%


Planning to use UK Theatre TV ?
Yes, for my showreel 15%
Yes, to promote next production 16%
Yes, for my voiceovers/singing 16%
No, too technical 17%
No, not required 15%
No, cant get permission 17%


Which of these are you a member of ?
Equity 13%
Bafta 12%
FST 12%
SAG 12%
The Academy (Oscars) 12%
None of the above 12%
More than one of the above 13%
BECTU 10%

Which age bracket are you in ?
Under 16 16%
17 to 25 17%
26 to 35 16%
36 to 45 16%
46 to 55 16%
Over 55 16%


Got a favourite feature ?
News at UKTN 16%
Tickets 17%
Special Offers 15%
Photo Gallery 16%
PayPerView 15%
Theatre Angels 17%


So you can read lots into this.

32% think the idea is dull. But that leaves 68% who think its either GOOD or BRILLIANT idea.

Only 15% say that they won't use it because they don't require it (I can always make it easier to use and give permissions). 15% say pay-per-view would be their favourite feature.

You can see for yourself its worldwide visitors and also professional membership is high. And lastly how often people visit the theatre shows room for improvement. And as for age its quite well spread.

The 18-25 thing is not a problem for the web but is apparently a problem for UK theatres according to a major study done over here - but its not my core focus group but a nice to have.

To answer the other question of filming while the audience are there ? Or should it filmed live or after the show closes ? I don't have fixed ideas here. Whatever is agreed with the production team and the film crew. So far I have filmed most of the material at DRESS REHEARSAL with some on opening night. The opening night footage is at the back behind the audience and unobtrusive but captures the audience feedback, while the dress rehearsal is all close ups. The two nights will be edited together in a seamless way.

It's just one idea at the moment and I haven't seen the finished article. Filming theatre is a BLACK ART and in need of the talents of film crew and theatre professionals to work together to come up with the best possible product. I haven't written anything off yet and I am listening to the feedback here which says do it after it closes. Which sounds right and would probably enhance the exclusivity of the finished product.


Finally, as its largely pioneering work, I don't have ALL the answers, but with your help and feedback from the polls on my site we can shape it in the right direction.

THanks again for your continued comments. I won't be able to reply for about 10 hours now. Got a day job to earn some money to keep the idea going

Doug

USTHEATER.TV - Visit and register FREE (if you want)

Updated On: 10/31/05 at 02:33 AM

[USTheater.TV]

Posted: 10/31/05 at 4:15pm

Just as a footnote, if you know of anyone who would like to pursue this opportunity in a collaborative, investment or partnership basis, please get in touch.

All the very best folks !

Doug

USTHEATER.TV - Passionate About Theater

Updated On: 10/31/05 at 04:15 PM

[RuprechtJr.]

Posted: 10/31/05 at 4:42pm

I think it's a great idea and I'm tired of reading "THEATER SHOULD BE VIEWED LIVE". Well, what happens if we can't get our (your words) lazy asses up to see a show. What happens if we don't have hundreds of dollars to blow off. What happens if your so far away you need money for a plane ticket. What happens it your schedule conflicts and on and on. Sometimes there is no way to view theater live. That's why I say it's a good idea. I'm glad Into the Woods is on DVD because I couldn't see the Revival because I was too young (well, in 6th grade...in 9th grade now) nor could I see the 1987 Original cast because I wasn't born yet. See my point?

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 10/31/05 at 6:06pm

Just as a footnote, if you know of anyone who would like to pursue this opportunity in a collaborative, investment or partnership basis, please get in touch.

Doug, I have sent you a PM (private message)...not to be confused with a BM which has been flung pretty heavily towards you, (congrats & welcome!.

If you wish to reply, please reach me at [e-mail]

Pati b.

[Horton]

Posted: 10/31/05 at 8:05pm

Who else thinks that the idea of this thread is sick?
"and I'm tired of reading "THEATER SHOULD BE VIEWED LIVE"
If it is not viewed live then its not theater is it, its film which is a perfectly good art which i also respect.

[hot_brdwy_diva]

Posted: 10/31/05 at 8:38pm

I think everyone understands the concept of theatre being LIVE. But if you can't experience that then you'd want to experience the next best thing right? RIGHT! That's what makes this such a great idea!

Example: You LOVE flowers, the smell, the colors - everything but you just recently discovered you're allergic! Now you can never enjoy flowers ever again. BUT WAIT! You can buy these wonderfull silk flowers with perfume! but they aren't living, they aren't real! Does that make them less enjoyable? Perhaps. But it's the next best thing since you can't enjoy real ones.

I hope this analogy makes sense!

I think it is a great idea. I hope it will be successful! I believe that shows should be videotaped professionally and not released until after the show releases it's rights to other theatres.

[iheartcheyenne123]

Posted: 10/31/05 at 10:00pm

wow...this thread is still going on? i thought the war was over..lol

[Isabella2]

Posted: 10/31/05 at 11:06pm

wasn't a war till you started it.

"Just as a footnote, if you know of anyone who would like to pursue this opportunity in a collaborative, investment or partnership basis, please get in touch."

I'd be interested in some sort of internship. then again i'm in new york and i'm not sure where this think is running. UK right?

[USTheater.TV]

Posted: 11/1/05 at 2:03am

Horton

That's a good point. It's definitely not a feature film. A good example here would be the feature film "Phantom of the Opera" with my good friend Gerard Butler (a fellow Scot), in the lead. I personally did not like the film. I would have much preferred a filmed recording of the musical on the West End or Broadway stage with a few flying cameras and closeups of the actors and high quality 5.1 sound.

The idea has just launched in the UK and the first lot of low-budget filming is in action. A lot of big investors are waiting and watching. Tonight I am at the National Theatre of Scotland launch. I have a film crew lined up and interviewers ready to put this historic event online for the world to see. There are no other interested film production or TV company who are there. Only UKTheatre.TV - does that not say something ? If we cannot support our own theatrical colleagues in promoting an important historical theatrical event, the TV and Film industries won't.

How many TV programmes can you watch tonight about theatre ? Count them in one hand ? Perhaps there is one little cable channel somewhere....... why ? How can people know about the experience of theatre if they are getting daily doses of new films being launched and reality TV and product commercials and politics....... get theatre in front of their noses.

USTheater.TV is an idea of its time. Musicals are an ideal format though I appreciate the dilemmas raised in this thread. Drama will also be great and comedies will be delightful. Let's go do it folks and support theatre in our cities around the world.

Anyone interested can click on NEWSLETTERS and get the weekly update with news, reviews and ticket offers. I am expanding this to include U.S. material and I have a top New York theatre critic who writes for us as well.

Doug
USTHEATER.TV - Passionate About Theater

Updated On: 11/1/05 at 02:03 AM

[paradox_error]

Posted: 11/1/05 at 11:42am

One section of the argument that has been left out is that of those who don't live in NYC or London, or even England or the US. I currently live in Poland, which is the closest to either of these "Theatrelands" than I have been in my whole life. Yes, in Poland.

I see as much live theatre as I can, but when you live in Australia (where I hail from) or Poland or Argentina or Vietnam, the quality is not always of the same standard as Broadway or West End. And how long do we have to wait? Currently playing in Warsaw on the musical scene we have CATS (Koty) and Dance of the Vampires (Taniec Wampirow). In Australia, we have The Lion King, the recently-closed The Producers, and The Boy From Oz arena spectacular coming up.

And you wonder why someone like me would support the idea of being able to access my favourite musical, or any musical/play for that matter. And that way, I'd be doing my bit to support the industry as well.

The fact is, this isn't a matter of hundreds of dollars, it's THOUSANDS for me. And I'm currently working in a much lower economy, earning about $1000 per month, if that. And I'm one of the lucky ones.

Good luck Doug, I hope you succeed. I mean, I wasn't even able to watch the TONYS. I got to see the Red Carpet, but noone was broadcasting the Actual Show, so, poor me.

Your website would help people like me.

Best Wishes,

Doxy

[TG4802]

Posted: 11/1/05 at 5:19pm

Doug- your money would be better invested in a new bird flu vaccine. I've been lurking on this thread for some time now and I see both sides. That being said, you will never generate the interest you would require to make this a profitable venture. It has been tried here before with limited to no success. The obstacles are too great to overcome in regard to the finished product. The production costs alone will prove too great if all your looking for is a "souvenir" product. You will never be able to replicate the sense of "live theatre", I don't care how many cameras you are allowed to use, and it would never be able to replace a cinematic production ie. Phantom, Chicago, etc. I say bring back the movie musical and allow the stage to remain the live venue that it is for those that choose to, however they can, get their butts in the seats whether it be regional theatre, the West End or the Great White Way.

[Isabella2]

Posted: 11/1/05 at 8:17pm

Just because it failed before doesn't mean it can never suceed. We need to learn from our past and improve.

I have faith in this idea and so should everyone who is a lover of broadway.

[paradox_error]

Posted: 11/13/05 at 6:16pm

Where did Doug go?

He was so strongly for this then...bang. Disappears....

[USTheater.TV]

Posted: 11/13/05 at 6:46pm

Hey, I'm still here my good friend. In fact I've been filming tonight at the BAFTA FIlm and TV awards in Scotland if you must know.

Here's the BLOG:- http://uktheatrenet.blogspot.com/

We will be interviewing the stars of the UK stage this year to help them publicise their performance on stage. I have also got new contacts in New York which will allow me to film there in 1Q06.

I am launching this in the UK first and I have some work to do now before I come back and start telling all my new colleagues on Broadwayworld.com - I've had some offline PM's with a number of people from this stream I'm hopeful of further collaboration. I have also been offered content from the various professional American bodies in support of the concept.

I will update you when further events occur.

Douglas x



USTheater.TV - Coming soon to a stage near you

Updated On: 11/13/05 at 06:46 PM

[paradox_error]

Posted: 11/13/05 at 6:51pm

Well I'm all for it, so good for you.

The thing that got to me more than anything else was not being able to watch the Tonys.

I can cope with living off Cast Recordings and Librettos, but I had to follow the Tony awards step by step on this forum, as other people announced what happened.

There's a major problem with this attitude of, "if you can't get to New York, or don't live in America, tough..."

[USTheater.TV]

Posted: 11/13/05 at 7:01pm

Well as it happens.......it's the Chief Exec of the Tony's that has been in touch with me over the last week, he said that he has bookmarked my site in his favorites and has offered to share content as it will give his organisation publicity straight into the heart of theatre world in the UK. His webmaster is on holiday but we have an initial plan of action.

I will pass on your very comments to him. Watch this space.

Doug
USTheater.TV - Passionate About Theater

[bryan]

Posted: 11/13/05 at 8:24pm

hi i think that musicals should be tape is for history and that's why we should put shows flops and hits on cd.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 11/13/05 at 8:59pm

Iheartchyenne123,

Please learn how to spell.

Updated On: 11/13/05 at 08:59 PM