#1
Posted: 11/21/18 at 4:29pm
I think his score’s are pretty decent. Compared to the crap today like mean girls, beetlejuice, king kong, why does he always get mass amounts of hate towards his scores?
Why do critics hate Frank Wildhorn?
#2
Posted: 11/21/18 at 4:55pm
Most of his songs are generic power ballads that aren’t very character-specific and would be interchangeable between shows. The properties he chooses to musicalize are often drab. And he usually works with poor book writers who don’t bring anything to the material.
Just remembering you've had an "and"
When you're back to "or"
Makes the "or" mean more than it did before
#3
Posted: 11/21/18 at 4:58pm
His scores are PAINFULLY of their time and only really found success in a VERY SMALL window or an era where the style of music he wrote proved to be popular.
His shows, once that window of time closed, revealed themselves to be insufferable once the 1990's turned into the 2000's. And every decade... they age worse and worse.
There's no way to make any of his shows that have run on Broadway into hits or even great nights of theatre.... besides Bonnie and Clyde.
Broadway World's Fireman.
Updated On: 11/21/18 at 04:58 PM
#4
Posted: 11/21/18 at 5:02pm
I still think the score for Bonnie & Clyde is excellent and the book and lyrics are the best of any of his other shows. That show deserved more.
#5
Posted: 11/21/18 at 5:04pm
CATSNYrevival said: "I still think the score for Bonnie & Clyde is excellent and the book and lyrics are the best of any of his other shows. That show deserved more."
I agree.
I have a theory that the show would have done much better on Broadway if Frank had written it under a pseudonym.
Broadway World's Fireman.
#6
Posted: 11/21/18 at 5:05pm
I’m a very big Frank Wildhorn fan, I think it’s a shame that critics won’t even give him a chance at this point. Some of his newer shows are beautiful and are finding great success in Japan and Korea.
#8
Posted: 11/21/18 at 10:18pm
Sondheimite said: "CATSNYrevival said: "I still think the score for Bonnie & Clyde is excellent and the book and lyrics are the best of any of his other shows. That show deserved more."
I agree.
I have a theory that the show would have done much better on Broadway if Frank had written it under a pseudonym."
Agreed. I really hope that at some point in the next decade it gets brought to an off broadway house. I think it could have a good life in a smaller midtown house.
"Life is already so dark. If you have got the talent to make it brighter and bring people hope & joy, why would you withhold that?"
#9
Posted: 11/21/18 at 10:29pm
He works with awful lyricists. Read the lyrics to “Murder, Murder”, the act 2 opener from Jekyll and Hyde to get a sense of just how bad they can be. A sampling:
“They murdered dear old Bessy, I hear extremely messy.”
“Poor old Archie is no more! They say there’s lots of blood and gore.”
“No matter who we’re blaming, til they put what’s his name in there’s gonna be one flaming row”
Beyond that, with the exception of Bonnie and Clyde, you could swap out entire songs from show to show and it wouldn’t matter. “This is the Moment” could very easily have been sung by Douglas Sills in The Scarlet Pimpernel instead of by Robert Cuccioli in Jekyll and Hyde.
“They murdered dear old Bessy, I hear extremely messy.”
“Poor old Archie is no more! They say there’s lots of blood and gore.”
“No matter who we’re blaming, til they put what’s his name in there’s gonna be one flaming row”
Beyond that, with the exception of Bonnie and Clyde, you could swap out entire songs from show to show and it wouldn’t matter. “This is the Moment” could very easily have been sung by Douglas Sills in The Scarlet Pimpernel instead of by Robert Cuccioli in Jekyll and Hyde.
#10
Posted: 11/22/18 at 3:00am
adamgreer said: "He works with awful lyricists. Read the lyrics to “Murder, Murder”, the act 2 opener from Jekyll and Hyde to get a sense of just how bad they can be. A sampling:
“They murdered dear old Bessy, I hear extremely messy.”
“Poor old Archie is no more! They say there’s lots of blood and gore.”
“No matter who we’re blaming, til they put what’s his name in there’s gonna be one flaming row”
Beyond that, with the exception of Bonnie and Clyde, you could swap out entire songs from show to show and it wouldn’t matter. “This is the Moment” could very easily have been sung by Douglas Sills in The Scarlet Pimpernel instead of by Robert Cuccioli in Jekyll and Hyde. "
I have to agree with this. I cringe every time I hear “to kill outside St. Paul’s requires a lot of balls”
Lyrics aside, I think his music is phenomenal. Some of his best work hasn’t even touched Broadway and unfortunately probably never will. I thoroughly enjoy listening to Count of Monte Cristo, Death Note, Zelda, and Rudolf. I’m still upset with myself for not traveling to Utah to see Count of Monte Cristo when they had the American premiere there.
It was Wildhorn’s music that ended up getting me to listen to foreign musical theatre cast recordings, which is the majority of what I listen to now, which then introduced me to one of my now favorite composers Sylvester Levay.
#11
Posted: 11/22/18 at 5:51am
I really appreciate the Jekyll and Hyde concept recording with Anthony Warlow. It's hauntingly beautiful and feels very filmic. Especially everything in between the big songs (The end of Board of Governors, Transformation, No one must ever know, How can I continue on, The way back, Mass, etc) are all highlights to me. The well known numbers are the least interesting part of the show to me.
Also, the scenes "Murder" and "Bitch" are very much on point lyrically and very funny. I think these scenes are meant to make fun of people. Have you ever seen people being interviewed after a shocking event and the incoherent mess that sometimes comes out of the mouth of the (not always very intelligent) civillians? It's really how I hear women in my street speak to eachother when something has happened in town. I think the way this show portrays these characters is on purpose and very funny, also in other scenes such as the engagement party they are quite repulsive. This creates some sort of sympathy for Hyde, and gives the audience some validation for hating these people and the fact that Hyde kills them.
Mass:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEDQwZMXP_U&list=RDi9SKLqVqGmY&index=9
Bitch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxzw2CWoBqI
Updated On: 11/23/18 at 05:51 AM
#13
Posted: 11/23/18 at 7:29am
There is a place for his work but it isn't Broadway. His work can be incredibly enjoyable and some of his sings are absolute joys to sing but I do think he shouldn't aim for Broadway.
"Charlotte, we're Jewish"
#14
Posted: 11/23/18 at 9:08am
I agree with the Bonnie and Clyde...it was a good show and had music and two up and coming stars that had massive talent.. that was better than a lot of crap you hear today (MEAN GIRLS is awful but since a critic darling wrote it so it is a hit) ..I agree they went in hating him and the show..so bad review...
#15
Posted: 11/23/18 at 12:03pm
His early shows weren't very good. And I don't love all his songs. But damn, he's written some very fine ones.
"When I Look at You" is gorgeous.
#16
Posted: 11/23/18 at 1:03pm
If Mean Girls is the bar we’re measuring “good” musicals by, that is a very low bar indeed. And also totally moot since Frank Wildhorn does not and will never have the same noteriety and pull that Tina Fey or the Mean Girls property has.
As for why critics hate Wildhorn, who knows. His shows are often wildly uneven, poorly written, and with no need for existence. They’re fluff shows without the escapism. Some of his music is nice to listen to, but you would often have to remove the atrocious lyrics to appreciate them.
If you’re a fan of his, that’s great. But he will never be respected by the mainstream, sorry to say. He doesn’t work with good enough lyricists or book writers and he chooses bizarre material to adapt.
As for why critics hate Wildhorn, who knows. His shows are often wildly uneven, poorly written, and with no need for existence. They’re fluff shows without the escapism. Some of his music is nice to listen to, but you would often have to remove the atrocious lyrics to appreciate them.
If you’re a fan of his, that’s great. But he will never be respected by the mainstream, sorry to say. He doesn’t work with good enough lyricists or book writers and he chooses bizarre material to adapt.
#17
Posted: 11/23/18 at 2:25pm
He works with awful lyricists. Read the lyrics to “Murder, Murder”, the act 2 opener from Jekyll and Hyde to get a sense of just how bad they can be.
I think that's the first time I've heard Leslie Bricusse referred to as an awful lyricist. In the pre-Broadway productions of J&H, the somewhat brash and tongue-in-cheek lyrics worked well due to the staging. It was all choreographed with newspapers as people all over London, from the riff-raff to the posh, were reading the headlines and spreading the gossip across the city like wildfire, so the lyrics represented the personality type of person that was singing them. The misconceived Broadway atrocity just choreographed an umbrella drill-team dance and eschewed the rest of the thought that went into the number.
"When I Look at You" is gorgeous.
It's flat-out brilliant. Sophisticated, poignant and one of my favorite Broadway ballads of all time. I don't care what anyone says, I thought Nan Knighton did a wonderful job with the lyrics in Pimpernel. Personally, Scarlet Pimpernel (1.0) is my favorite of his scores, though pre-Broadway Jekyll & Hyde had some really fantastic songs (Bring on the Men, Sympathy Tenderness, Once Upon a Dream, His Work and Nothing More, Girls of the Night, Confrontation). But Scarlet Pimpernel had a lovely balance of drama, comedy and a touch of camp cleverly gleaned from its rather slight source material.
Like most musical theatre composers, I like some of his work and not others. He had some great tunes in Civil War and Bonnie & Clyde. And he has more in Svengali, Monte Cristo, Camille Claudel, Rudolf and Carmen, though haven't played Broadway.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
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