Why wasn't Wonderland nominated for anything!? — Page 2

Wonderland=CRAP. One of the WORST shows I ever sat through. It is right up there with A Tale Of Two Cities and The Shags. And Hands On A Hardbody and Motown. Crap I tell you.

Updated On: 6/16/13 at 11:21 PM

Frankie's scores always sound better in recordings. Because he knows how to write a pop hook, and decent pop songs. But they just don't work as theatre songs or musical motifs that tell their stories. If he could find a bookwriter and a lyricist that could turn that into theatre he might someday have a Broadway Show that works. But the common denominator here is Frank, despite all his flops, well they all were flops, he still wields the power and his decisions all fail. WONDERLAND might have worked, a pop score with a classic story, but it was mangeled and reworked to death. And Hook's post (though satirical) is too painfully close to what was probably going on.

James885, at one point, the story of Wonderland focused on Alice, the struggling writer, being pulled into Wonderland many years after she was originally supposed to visit. The scene with Lewis Carroll was the crux of her emotional arc. It was the motivation she needed to find her way back to the real world and become the success she was destined to be.

Then the story changed and changed and changed. I even think at one point the book suggested that Alice was a direct descendant from the Alice in the book and that everyone in the family had to go to Wonderland. Then again, at one point, the story closely followed the plot of Through the Looking Glass with the infinitely expanding chess board and having to defeat the White Queen at her game for Alice to claim her place in the world.

That Alice/Lewis Carroll scene had no place in the Broadway version, but I actually liked it as a theatrical piece. It was the only moment in the second act that had a defined voice.

How much input does Wildhorn actually have on the shows using his music? Reading posts over the years, there is the impression that he has total control - that these are Wildhorn shows. He cannot be happy that his shows are not commercial successes on Broadway - although he apparently has made/continues to make a good living off the music/royalties (plus his non-theatre shows). Jack Murphy seems responsible as book/lyrics for more notorious shows: Civil War and Wonderland. Don Black gets "credit" for Dracula and Bonnie and Clyde.

Frankie's scores always sound better in recordings. Because he knows how to write a pop hook, and decent pop songs. But they just don't work as theatre songs or musical motifs that tell their stories.

I thought much of J&H, Pimpernel and B&C actually worked well, musically. Especially Pimpernel. When I Look at You is one of my favorite ballads of the late 20th century.

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What does it mean when all the people say on this thread say "I'm actually a Wildhorn fan?" I think people tend to do what Charles Isherwood admitted to in his most recent J&H review; they listen to his cast recordings (J&H, Civil War, Dracula, etc.) while cleaning their garages, hear the few good tunes, and think that they are fans of his, never having actually sat through one of his shows.
I do think he writes a pleasant chord progression and an easy melody with some disney magic…. but I am **far** from a fan of his….

… The nomination i hoped Wonderland would get is for Karen Mason, who actually got decent notices for the show. She wouldn't stand a chance in hell of winning with that material, but it would have been nice as sort of a "we know you're better than this material" gesture...


Wonderland also played out like a cheap Wicked knockoff using Wicked's "magic formula"
[Backstory of Beloved Childhood Story] + [Pop infused score] + [female slightly misunderstood protagonist] + ...

Updated On: 6/17/13 at 11:04 AM

Trentsketch, thanks for the information.

I would've been interested to see the previous florida production to be able track the changes that were made to the show. It seemed like most of the changes they made for Broadway weren't for the better.

I don't know if it's still on youtube, but there was a clip from the previous production of a song called Dont Wanna Fall in Love and another song sung by the Mad Hatter called Nick of Time. Since neither were in the Broadway version, I assume they were cut during the show's rewrites for New York.

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That video was taken after weeks of changes had already been made.

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They Tried to do what WICKED did but it came off as being over the top and just gaudy. I didn't hate it but i didn't exactly think i was watching anything good. HA

"He must be doing something right, he has had six shows now on Broadway. (they may not have all been hits) but that's better then me."

By definition, all have been flops on Broadway. Also I would just say this in your response to six Broadway shows.... Quantity is not indicative of quality.

I think people tend to do what Charles Isherwood admitted to in his most recent J&H review; they listen to his cast recordings (J&H, Civil War, Dracula, etc.) while cleaning their garages, hear the few good tunes, and think that they are fans of his, never having actually sat through one of his shows.

OR...They have seen several of his shows, perhaps liked some productions but not others, but generally enjoyed the music to most of them. It is entirely possible to be a Wildhorn fan while not faulting him entirely for the productions involving his scores.

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Liza's Headband - while I am most certainly a huge supporter of Frank, I never fail to mention his flaws. He still has many, many fans who come to see the shows for his music (he's been doing concerts for the past year at the Birdland). He/his shows have launched the careers of some of Broadway's greatest voices in the past decade.

The only musicals Frank played an integral part to the book/lyrics was Jekyll & Hyde and The Civil War. Every member of a creative team obviously has some input...

WONDERLAND's 2011 Tampa production would've been ravished on Broadway as well... it was just more "ambitious" of a story.

The show was written pretty much up until a night or two before opening night. The 70+ changes in the script were true. The "tech" aka previews in Tampa were also constantly changing things (except the weekend Janet Dacal missed for In the Heights closing).

The biggest changes from first preview to opening night were the climatic riddle scene between the Hatter & Alice, the lyrics to "Hail the Queen" (re-written with those Broadway-nods mentioned above), turning "Home" (easily the most boring melodies of the show) into a duet between Alice and Chloe, .. and a few more.

The ballerina in "I Am My Own Invention" was a nod to the original productions in Tampa. Believe it or not the 2011 version actually used certain dialogue scenes talking about "door number two" or "door number six" but no door number three or four, etc.

The biggest problem with its book is it tried to make a big deal of its think climax (Alice finding her inner child to defeat the Hatter), which was fixed on Broadway by having Alice confront the actual Hatter. The Chess light-saber wars are some of my favorite "what's happening here" moments in Tampa/Houston.

Jack Murphy and Gregory Boyd had no idea how to write transitions, which were partially fixed on Broadway but they were far too corny and cringeworthy.

I enjoyed it but I wouldn't call it any great piece of theatre. Fluff... Flaws & all.