#651
Posted: 11/29/07 at 11:07am
CATSNY, it's certainly a musical version. Throughout the show, during rehersals and auditions, Sister Chantelle makes reference to warbling and being off-key.
bare The Complete Studio Recording — Page 27
#652
Posted: 11/30/07 at 4:08pm
The documentary is primarily about the construction of the show from its original conception. The LA production is the only one with footage while the NY production is only mentioned. The second half of the movie is about getting the studio cast together and recording the album.
Totally changing subjects: Do you think Peter's father comes to the show?
Totally changing subjects: Do you think Peter's father comes to the show?
#653
Posted: 11/30/07 at 4:38pm
This is a random topic as well. Ok during "Plain Jane Fat Ass", Nadia is upset because she didn't get the part of Juliet and always gets stuck in the nurse or servant roles. But does anyone else find it odd that she wants to play Juliet and her brother would be Romeo? They would be playing lovers...that's just gross! It's weird to me.
If you hide from yourself, be someone else for someone else's sake, that would be the greatest mistake - bare
#654
Posted: 11/30/07 at 4:44pm
I think that's just looking too much into it. I believe she means in general. I don't think she's saying she wants to specifically play Juliet oposite her brother's Romeo. She's not Chyler Leigh.
Updated On: 11/30/07 at 04:44 PM
#655
Posted: 11/30/07 at 6:32pm
Cats - I figured that it just meant generally but when I first heard it, I thought it was just kind of strange but like you said she meant in general.
If you hide from yourself, be someone else for someone else's sake, that would be the greatest mistake - bare
#656
Posted: 11/30/07 at 6:39pm
crushgroove, yeah, it's mainly about the conception of the show, how it started, the meeting of all the creators and the method they went through in developing and shaping the show. It's primarily about the LA production with clips and interviews with some of the original members (primarily those who are involved in the recording). Little is mentioned NY because I think it left a sour taste in everyone's mouth...but it is briefly disussed.
And then they focus on the creation of the recording, how that came to be and they interview Christopher Johnson (Matt), Kelli Lefkovitz (Nadia), Matt Doyle (Peter), James Snyder (Jason) and Jenna Leigh Green (Ivy) primarily, with other interviews with Stephanie Anderson (Sister Chantelle), Kaitlin Hopkins (Claire) and Jim Price (Priest). There's lots of great footage of them recording and almost all of "Role Of a Lifetime" is shown.
The whole thing runs about an hour. It's pretty great.
[Edit.]
There's also a GREAT scene between Kelli & James when they're recording the whole Nadia telling Jason to just call her moment and she's crying and he's all sad and then they hug and then it's just OH! so good.
I don't think Peter's father would come if he is really as estranged as the piece makes out. And they don't show him at the end, at graduation and all, so I don't think he would come to see R&J and not him graduate? But who knows. IMO, he doesn't come.
What do you suppose your attitude towards Ivy is supposed to be? I don't like her...I want to like her, but I just don't. I love Peter, I feel terrible for Jason, and I hate Ivy. Anyone else dislike her? Anyone like her? If so, why? Change my mind! I want to like her! But alas.
And then they focus on the creation of the recording, how that came to be and they interview Christopher Johnson (Matt), Kelli Lefkovitz (Nadia), Matt Doyle (Peter), James Snyder (Jason) and Jenna Leigh Green (Ivy) primarily, with other interviews with Stephanie Anderson (Sister Chantelle), Kaitlin Hopkins (Claire) and Jim Price (Priest). There's lots of great footage of them recording and almost all of "Role Of a Lifetime" is shown.
The whole thing runs about an hour. It's pretty great.
[Edit.]
There's also a GREAT scene between Kelli & James when they're recording the whole Nadia telling Jason to just call her moment and she's crying and he's all sad and then they hug and then it's just OH! so good.
I don't think Peter's father would come if he is really as estranged as the piece makes out. And they don't show him at the end, at graduation and all, so I don't think he would come to see R&J and not him graduate? But who knows. IMO, he doesn't come.
What do you suppose your attitude towards Ivy is supposed to be? I don't like her...I want to like her, but I just don't. I love Peter, I feel terrible for Jason, and I hate Ivy. Anyone else dislike her? Anyone like her? If so, why? Change my mind! I want to like her! But alas.
whatever and ever amen - ben folds five
Updated On: 11/30/07 at 06:39 PM
#657
Posted: 11/30/07 at 7:08pm
I will write a full review later but this is what I don't understand about the whole LA vs. NYC thing. MULTIPLE times in the documentary, they said the LA production was like a rock concert. I think that is the biggest difference from what I heard from the LA cast cd and the clips from the dvd. In NYC it was a full blown theatre show with pop/rock music . . . in LA it was a rock concert with characters and scenes. I am not saying it wasn't theatre, but it was less so than in NYC.
Just my .02
Ps. Is it just me, or does the Peter in the LA production in the dvd clips look like he is about 30 years old?
Just my .02
Ps. Is it just me, or does the Peter in the LA production in the dvd clips look like he is about 30 years old?
"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2
#658
Posted: 11/30/07 at 7:27pm
The first incarnation was a concert, the actual LA production was just that... a production. It was a theatre show, albeit on a smaller scale than NY. The rawness of the production in LA made it feel like a blend of rock concert and musical theatre production.
#659
Posted: 11/30/07 at 7:38pm
I don't think Peter's dad would come either to graduation. I've always wondered if Ivy decides to keep her and Jason's baby or not. They never say at the end of the show.
If you hide from yourself, be someone else for someone else's sake, that would be the greatest mistake - bare
#660
Posted: 11/30/07 at 9:29pm
OT: CATS I dont get the Chyler Leigh joke. Could you elaborate?
#661
Posted: 11/30/07 at 10:21pm
Even if Peter's father did come to the performance or graduation, I don't think it matters at all. We never hear from him at all throughout the show, just via some throwaway lines from Claire. It's not like we'd recognize Peter's father if we saw him. Even if he was there, he's not part of the story so there's really no point in even acknowledging whether or not he showed.
And as for Ivy, yes, I hate her, and I think it's especially easy for gay men to hate her. I know that when I was in high school, I HATED the pretty sluts who always got the guys, and obviously Ivy is sort of the embodiment of every girl like that in every high school. However, I like that she's not just a static character in the show, and I appreciate the fact that she's fleshed out a bit and is shown as a real person who just wants to be loved. However, being that most sane people are hardcore rooting for Peter and Jason by the time Ivy hints at being attracted to Peter, I think the general consensus is that Ivy is (and is intended to be) disliked.
In regards to whether or not she kept the baby, I'd like to think she did. If anything, despite my dislike for the character, I'd like to think that Ivy grows a bit in the end and decides to take on the responsibility to raise the child that she brought upon herself.
And as for Ivy, yes, I hate her, and I think it's especially easy for gay men to hate her. I know that when I was in high school, I HATED the pretty sluts who always got the guys, and obviously Ivy is sort of the embodiment of every girl like that in every high school. However, I like that she's not just a static character in the show, and I appreciate the fact that she's fleshed out a bit and is shown as a real person who just wants to be loved. However, being that most sane people are hardcore rooting for Peter and Jason by the time Ivy hints at being attracted to Peter, I think the general consensus is that Ivy is (and is intended to be) disliked.
In regards to whether or not she kept the baby, I'd like to think she did. If anything, despite my dislike for the character, I'd like to think that Ivy grows a bit in the end and decides to take on the responsibility to raise the child that she brought upon herself.
Updated On: 11/30/07 at 10:21 PM
#662
Posted: 12/1/07 at 8:57am
I think she kept the baby. "What a mess . . . a perfect mess." Someone getting an abortion would probably not say that.
"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2
#663
Posted: 12/1/07 at 10:42am
Just thought I'd say, Ivy is Catholic, she more than likely kept the baby. When you are raised Catholic, even if you go the bad Catholic route, you are still left with a pretty good imprint. There are certain, "Nope you're going to hell things." and Abortion would be one of those. I think that's why it's so poignant that Jason decides to go the route he does after he asks the priest, "Am I OK?" And it is so devastating when the priest says, "No!" Suicide is another of those things, but that, "No!" would have been a death sentence for him anyway.
As an aside, its then interesting that the priest says, "You know, you should know, he's in a better place now." In my experience, the priest would actually say, "We'll have to pray for Jason, and I'll continue to pray for you, Peter." If they went that route, I think Peter's statement would go a long way with Catholics who question that whole aspect of Catholisism. Like, wait a minute, you have this kid in the palm of your hands. He's come to you and you shut him down like that? In everything else you've taught about God's representation on Earth, Jesus, He wouldn't do that.
I don't think you are supposed to hate Ivy. She's just as messed up and confused as the others. She may have put herself in that position by her behavior, but Jason did say, "That's what I'm supposed to do." In essence, he lies. Lying is one of the "Big 10" don't do that. The results are lingering and devastating for everyone. Ivy is as much of a victim of that lie as Jason, Peter and even Matt. I don't relate to Ivy but I don't hate her.
As an aside, its then interesting that the priest says, "You know, you should know, he's in a better place now." In my experience, the priest would actually say, "We'll have to pray for Jason, and I'll continue to pray for you, Peter." If they went that route, I think Peter's statement would go a long way with Catholics who question that whole aspect of Catholisism. Like, wait a minute, you have this kid in the palm of your hands. He's come to you and you shut him down like that? In everything else you've taught about God's representation on Earth, Jesus, He wouldn't do that.
I don't think you are supposed to hate Ivy. She's just as messed up and confused as the others. She may have put herself in that position by her behavior, but Jason did say, "That's what I'm supposed to do." In essence, he lies. Lying is one of the "Big 10" don't do that. The results are lingering and devastating for everyone. Ivy is as much of a victim of that lie as Jason, Peter and even Matt. I don't relate to Ivy but I don't hate her.
#664
Posted: 12/1/07 at 11:31am
I think the priest's "He's in a better place" line was intentional, I feel like it was thrown in there to make light of the fact that priests and people in that position often say the worst things at the worst time. The last thing on Peter's mind at that point, I think, is the religious aspect of things and where Jason is on a spiritual level. I think it serves to emphasize the fact that the priest really has no idea what to say.
And as I said, being in the "Peter" position a number of times in high school, it's very tough not to hate Ivy. I am sympathetic in the end, but there's still a sense of "She brought it upon herself". She even takes the blame during "All Grown Up"..."If only Ivy had behaved, or ever stopped at just a kiss", so it's very hard to feel bad for her when she knew what she was doing.
Also, it's very plausible that she got an abortion. There's no indication whatsoever that Ivy is a devout follower of her religion, I know plenty of people who were completely Athiest or Agnostic throughout catholic high school. However, I think as a character, Ivy would have kept the child. At least, then, she would have some reminder of Jason.
And as I said, being in the "Peter" position a number of times in high school, it's very tough not to hate Ivy. I am sympathetic in the end, but there's still a sense of "She brought it upon herself". She even takes the blame during "All Grown Up"..."If only Ivy had behaved, or ever stopped at just a kiss", so it's very hard to feel bad for her when she knew what she was doing.
Also, it's very plausible that she got an abortion. There's no indication whatsoever that Ivy is a devout follower of her religion, I know plenty of people who were completely Athiest or Agnostic throughout catholic high school. However, I think as a character, Ivy would have kept the child. At least, then, she would have some reminder of Jason.
Updated On: 12/1/07 at 11:31 AM
#665
Posted: 12/1/07 at 11:59am
I think people have feelings of hate for Ivy based on their own experiences. I identify so much with Nadia, and being that Ivy is the symbol of all the pretty girls in high school who always got what they wanted ("having everything handed to you just because you're pretty"), I do not like Ivy. I think she brought it on herself.
And I do think she keeps the child. I don't think she'd have an abortion, being that she's Catholic. And the child is someone to love her - I think she realizes that.
And I do think she keeps the child. I don't think she'd have an abortion, being that she's Catholic. And the child is someone to love her - I think she realizes that.
#666
Posted: 12/1/07 at 12:18pm
outovfasion this is random but I tried to PM you, i live in the cleveland area and would LOVE to help with the production and maybe even try out. when you find out the final information can u PM me or something?
#667
Posted: 12/1/07 at 12:23pm
Another thing that I find to be so tragic about the show is that almost every character can be blamed for what happens between Jason and Peter and Jason's ultimate suicide. Just think about it for a second. Ivy can be blamed because she just wants to sleep with Jason and gets pregnant by him. Matt can be blamed because he outs both Jason and Peter in front of everybody. The priest can be blamed because he tells Jason that it is wrong what he is doing. Claire can be blamed because she doesn't support Peter until the very end. Nadia can be blamed because she knew Jason was gay but never wanted to bring it up. Lucas can be blamed because he ends up giving Jason the fatal dose of drugs. Peter can be blamed because he doesn't want to get back with Jason when Jason tries to make his final plea to run away together because he is so hurt by him still. Jason can be blamed because he breaks up with Peter and then doesn't realize what he's had all along until the end and when Peter won't take him back initially, he takes the fatal dose of drugs. The only main character that supports what is going on is Sister Chantalle. She's the only voice of reason for them in the show.
If you hide from yourself, be someone else for someone else's sake, that would be the greatest mistake - bare
#668
Posted: 12/1/07 at 12:47pm
DaneSaw: Do you think Jason knew what he was doing? Ivy is not a innocent person in all this, but she was searching too. She is making mistakes trying to find that connection with someone, anyone, and that leads her to do what she did. Jason is trying to run away from the connection he found. He knows that he is in no way attracted to Ivy. He believes that is what everyone else would expect from him and he runs with out without consideration for the consequences. Ivy makes that connection with him but she is unaware of the total picture. Jason knows where his heart lies and he uses the fact that Ivy is who she is at that moment to find some sort of safety in that falsehood. He's caught between the two, even lying to Peter after the fact saying he didn't sleep with Ivy. He's in a place where he not being honest to anyone.
I'm not in anyway saying that Jason is unsympathetic. He backed into a corner and he is trying to make sense of it all and be who everyone thinks he should be, instead of being himself. Very few of us had the power, strength and maturity to be ourselves completely at that age. But I am saying that Ivy is sympathetic. She is also trying to reconcile her beliefs with what she feels and needs at that time. Its not like she knows that Jason is in love with Peter. She's not trying to come between them, if I'm missing that, point that out to me, because she seems to just be going for something she wants and thinks she needs at the time.
Peter is far beyond his years, so if that is who you relate to than kudos to you. You're a better man than I am or I should say was because I hope I've come a long way since then. It seems he's asking the right questions to me. Um, these feelings are real. They are honest. Why would God make me feel these feelings this strongly and make them feel so right for me, if it isn't right for me? I can't hide anymore. I can't lie anymore. I want to be honest about who I am. That is so brave and so strong of him. He's beyond sympathetic to the point of admiration. Then to confront the priest the way he did. He's fantastic. Wish I knew more people like him.
About the priest. I get that was intentional, but I think it would have been more powerful a scene if they went with something a little more realistic. The priest would not have said,"He's in a better place." Catholic doctrine wouldn't allow it. I think Peter is thinking about the Spiritual side of it and it would have been more powerful to say what he said in the face of the same rightous indignation that Jason faced. It's just a personal thought on it. I completely get why they went the way they did.
About the abortion thing, You could be right. But I think the indications are that she intended to keep the child. I have visions of the birthday party with "Uncle Peter" and "Aunt Nadia" one upping each other on who brings the best presents. I think, when faced with these issues in our lives, if you don't go the way Jason did, you figure it out and make the best of the life you have been given.
God, I love this show!
I'm not in anyway saying that Jason is unsympathetic. He backed into a corner and he is trying to make sense of it all and be who everyone thinks he should be, instead of being himself. Very few of us had the power, strength and maturity to be ourselves completely at that age. But I am saying that Ivy is sympathetic. She is also trying to reconcile her beliefs with what she feels and needs at that time. Its not like she knows that Jason is in love with Peter. She's not trying to come between them, if I'm missing that, point that out to me, because she seems to just be going for something she wants and thinks she needs at the time.
Peter is far beyond his years, so if that is who you relate to than kudos to you. You're a better man than I am or I should say was because I hope I've come a long way since then. It seems he's asking the right questions to me. Um, these feelings are real. They are honest. Why would God make me feel these feelings this strongly and make them feel so right for me, if it isn't right for me? I can't hide anymore. I can't lie anymore. I want to be honest about who I am. That is so brave and so strong of him. He's beyond sympathetic to the point of admiration. Then to confront the priest the way he did. He's fantastic. Wish I knew more people like him.
About the priest. I get that was intentional, but I think it would have been more powerful a scene if they went with something a little more realistic. The priest would not have said,"He's in a better place." Catholic doctrine wouldn't allow it. I think Peter is thinking about the Spiritual side of it and it would have been more powerful to say what he said in the face of the same rightous indignation that Jason faced. It's just a personal thought on it. I completely get why they went the way they did.
About the abortion thing, You could be right. But I think the indications are that she intended to keep the child. I have visions of the birthday party with "Uncle Peter" and "Aunt Nadia" one upping each other on who brings the best presents. I think, when faced with these issues in our lives, if you don't go the way Jason did, you figure it out and make the best of the life you have been given.
God, I love this show!
#669
Posted: 12/1/07 at 1:13pm
brainlessorwise - I completely agree with everything you just said. Another thing about Ivy that I have thought about is that she is the way she is because all she wants is to be loved by someone. I think she thinks that by sleeping with guys it will get her the love that she wants from somebody. Then she falls for Jason but he doesn't return the feelings like all the other guys she has been with.
If you hide from yourself, be someone else for someone else's sake, that would be the greatest mistake - bare
#670
Posted: 12/1/07 at 1:27pm
NY Broadway 2- Another way to think about the blame game that you were referring to is that they are ALL sinners. Greed, envy, gluttony, pride, sloth, vanity, and ug there's one more. OK, you get 5 Hail Mary's and 3 Our Father's...I mean, and nobody blinks. "It's just so arbitrary." So, Jason gets the loud, "No, you're not OK." Because he loved someone who happens to love him back? What? Wait a minute...That doesn't make a dang bit of sense.
#671
Posted: 12/1/07 at 4:50pm
I would just like to say that I purchased the cd 2 minutes after it went on sale...November 22nd I got an email saying USPS was notified that a package was on its way...today...still the same message when I went to track it...
I mean...I was MORE than patient when I heard this was delayed...but now... :|
Just felt like sharing.
I mean...I was MORE than patient when I heard this was delayed...but now... :|
Just felt like sharing.
#672
Posted: 12/1/07 at 5:02pm
brainlessorwise - That is another good way to look at it. They do each have their own sins that they portray in the show which ultimately leads to their downfalls. I have another question to ask. Why does Jason decide that he does want to be with Peter in the very end after he has been condemned by the priest? Does he just realize what he wants and doesn't care anymore about what the church says or does he want to just run away and still keep it a secret? Maybe he thinks in a new environment people won't be so against their love? It's kind of interesting since he and Peter do a complete 180. Peter tells Jason that their being together won't be a big deal once they leave school but Jason says it will always be a problem. But later, Jason wants to run away with Peter and Peter doesn't want to because he doesn't want to hide anymore. Kind of interesting.
If you hide from yourself, be someone else for someone else's sake, that would be the greatest mistake - bare
#673
Posted: 12/2/07 at 2:55am
brainlessorwise, I completely see where you're coming from with every one of those points, they're all very right, but a part of me just thinks that Ivy just acted like a slut and got what she deserved. Maybe I'm nuts, but is there ANY indication before "Birthday, Bitch" that Ivy has sincere feelings for Jason? It seems to me like she gets drunk and acts like a skank at her birthday party, and then latches on when she notices that he's not just shoving her aside. You would think that, were she so infatuated with Jason all along, we would have gotten a hint of such earlier in the show (all that comes to mind is the "Coming, Romeo?" line after Auditions, which could just be seen as a throwaway line...).
Also, one thing always bugged me...was Ivy REALLY sincerely in love with Jason from the start, or was she just caught up in the moment like Jason was when they had sex, then found out that she was pregnant after break and then pursued Jason like all hell because that would be the right thing to do? Was Ivy truly in love, or just being manipulative for her own benefit?
I know, I'm digging deep here. I just think it's cool to look at aspects of the story and delve deeper into such interesting characters.
Also, one thing always bugged me...was Ivy REALLY sincerely in love with Jason from the start, or was she just caught up in the moment like Jason was when they had sex, then found out that she was pregnant after break and then pursued Jason like all hell because that would be the right thing to do? Was Ivy truly in love, or just being manipulative for her own benefit?
I know, I'm digging deep here. I just think it's cool to look at aspects of the story and delve deeper into such interesting characters.
#674
Posted: 12/2/07 at 11:50am
danesaw - I think initially Ivy was not in love with Jason. She just saw something that she wanted and then pursued him. But I think she was beginning to have feelings for him even before they had sex. In "One" she says "there's something about you Jason...I can't put my finger on the why" so that indicates to me that she doesn't really understand her feelings for him all the way yet. She just knows the physical aspects of love. But when they come back from the school break, I think she has fallen for him. In "Touch My Soul" she is saying that she has been with several boys before and they just want her for sex. I think Ivy uses sex to find love with men. I think she thinks that is what will get them to fall in love with her but she realizes that they just use her. She also says in the song that everything she has been missing was in Jason's eyes so I think she has fallen in love with him. Also at this point in the show I don't think Ivy knows she is pregnant yet. I think she just really wants to be with Jason.
So, in answer to your question, I think Ivy was being manipulative at first especially during her birthday party, but I think she does start to fall for Jason before they have sex and then she is completely in love with him afterwards.
So, in answer to your question, I think Ivy was being manipulative at first especially during her birthday party, but I think she does start to fall for Jason before they have sex and then she is completely in love with him afterwards.
If you hide from yourself, be someone else for someone else's sake, that would be the greatest mistake - bare
#675
Posted: 12/2/07 at 11:54am
I think there's no doubt she is a hooch, for lack of a better term. I think the motivations behind that are that she is searching for love, but is also scared to death of it. The funny part for me is that she has Matt (In the play not Doyle), who would pretty much carry her around for the rest of her life if both her legs fell off, and she tosses him aside for anyone else that comes along. She has manipulative qualities absolutely. I'm so intrigued by her, because I am Nadia. In reality, I would hate her, but I've grown up now and I see that she wasn't as deserving of my envy as I thought she was.
As an aside, today is my first snowfall in NYC and I'm going to go play in it as soon as the feeling comes back in my legs.
As an aside, today is my first snowfall in NYC and I'm going to go play in it as soon as the feeling comes back in my legs.
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