#26
Posted: 1/11/05 at 3:56pm
I don't think Effie has to have a weight problem. Is that mentioned in the book?
dreamgirls the big screen adaption — Page 2
#27
Posted: 1/11/05 at 3:59pm
I don't know that she has to have a weight problem, but after seeing Jennifer Holiday in the role I sure as hell don't wanna see a skinny chick singing those songs! LoL!
#28
Posted: 1/11/05 at 4:08pm
Effie doesn't have to have a weight problem and in fact Michael Bennett himself cast a couple of slender-ish actresses (with GREAT voices) in the role during the original Broadway run (as well as the tour). Check out pix of Julia McGirt whom Bennett handpicked to play it after Jennifer left the show -- she was thin, but with huge, powerhouse four octave voice (Vanessa Townsell was Holliday's immediate successor, but couldn't handle the role and McGirt soon took over and played it more times on Broadway than anyone else -- including Holliday -- over the course of the original run).
The only direct reference to Effie's weight in the entire show is during "It's All Over" when Curtis tells Effie "You've been late, you've been mean and getting fatter all the time." What Curtis doesn't realize, of course, is that Effie is pregnant with his child and is starting show. If a thinner actress is cast as Effie, she can simply be padded for "It's All Over" and "I'm Not Going" (which is what they did for certain Effies in the Broadway production).
The only direct reference to Effie's weight in the entire show is during "It's All Over" when Curtis tells Effie "You've been late, you've been mean and getting fatter all the time." What Curtis doesn't realize, of course, is that Effie is pregnant with his child and is starting show. If a thinner actress is cast as Effie, she can simply be padded for "It's All Over" and "I'm Not Going" (which is what they did for certain Effies in the Broadway production).
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie
[http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/]
"The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#29
Posted: 1/11/05 at 4:11pm
I'd kill to see Audra Mcdonald on stage...but if it has to be film...then that'll do! They better cast her!
#30
Posted: 1/11/05 at 4:14pm
Yes, I saw Sharon Brown as Effie and she could hardly be described as overweight (same with Brenda Pressley and Kecia Lewis whom I also saw play the role).
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie
[http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/]
"The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#31
Posted: 1/11/05 at 4:18pm
what about Eartha Kitt as Effie and Della Reese somehwre in there too?
Please visit Bitchy Waiter
#32
Posted: 1/11/05 at 4:27pm
I think Diahann Carroll's free, too 
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie
[http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/]
"The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#33
Posted: 1/11/05 at 4:53pm
Sharon Brown was a wonderful Effie!
And I agree with Justice that Anika should be considered. She was the best thing about CAROLINE.
And I agree with Justice that Anika should be considered. She was the best thing about CAROLINE.
"I am open, and I am willing,
For to be hopeless would seem so strange.
It dishonors those who go before us,
So lift me up to the light of change."
Holly Near
#34
Posted: 1/11/05 at 5:05pm
By the way, today is Sharon Brown's Birthday. Happiest returns of the day, Sharon!
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie
[http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/]
"The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#35
Posted: 1/11/05 at 5:28pm
As long as we're thinking of Caroline cast members, the ladies of the Radio are worth a look.
#36
Posted: 1/11/05 at 5:39pm
I haven't fleshed out my dream cast but so far I have the following:
Effie: Jennifer Hudson (the look & singing voice are perfect; visit her website sometime soon).
Deena: Deborah Cox (her rousing debut as the replacment in the titular role of AIDA made me even more of a believer in her)
Lorrell: Zoe Saldana, or Cree Summer
One word of caution: The big screen version begs for a cast that can ACT. That entails more than rump-shakers!
Trivia Question: Vanessa Bell is credited with being a part of the ensemble. Is this the same lady that went on to become the gospel recording legend Vanessa Bell Armstrong?
Effie: Jennifer Hudson (the look & singing voice are perfect; visit her website sometime soon).
Deena: Deborah Cox (her rousing debut as the replacment in the titular role of AIDA made me even more of a believer in her)
Lorrell: Zoe Saldana, or Cree Summer
One word of caution: The big screen version begs for a cast that can ACT. That entails more than rump-shakers!
Trivia Question: Vanessa Bell is credited with being a part of the ensemble. Is this the same lady that went on to become the gospel recording legend Vanessa Bell Armstrong?
#FactsMatter...your feelings not so much.
Updated On: 1/11/05 at 05:39 PM
#37
Posted: 1/11/05 at 5:53pm
No. Vanessa Bell and Vanessa Bell Armstrong are two completely different people.
By the way, can Cree Summer sing? Lorrell? With that insanely high belt than only a handful of ladies have ever been able to handle.
And how old are Summer and Deborah Cox? Mid-thirties?
IMO, if you're gonna start casting 30-something people in these roles (which I don't think you should do), then why not just grab Jennifer Holliday? She's early 40s, but looks 30-something.
By the way, can Cree Summer sing? Lorrell? With that insanely high belt than only a handful of ladies have ever been able to handle.
And how old are Summer and Deborah Cox? Mid-thirties?
IMO, if you're gonna start casting 30-something people in these roles (which I don't think you should do), then why not just grab Jennifer Holliday? She's early 40s, but looks 30-something.
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie
[http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/]
"The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#38
Posted: 1/11/05 at 6:15pm
Margo,
Cree has at least 2 recordings to her credit; she has a rockish voice, but is renown for her voice over work in animated pictures. In fact, I saw her years ago of some late night show in which she did impressions of other celebrities. Age could be an issue though. I'm certain that she is close to my age, 40. Deborah Cox is a very young looking 31 year old. I just hope that Follywood doesn't turn this thing into a casting call for AI-finalists exclusively. Switching the subject slightly, have you seen a production of Craig Wrights work 'The Pavilion'? I posted a thread about the play this past weekend.
Cree has at least 2 recordings to her credit; she has a rockish voice, but is renown for her voice over work in animated pictures. In fact, I saw her years ago of some late night show in which she did impressions of other celebrities. Age could be an issue though. I'm certain that she is close to my age, 40. Deborah Cox is a very young looking 31 year old. I just hope that Follywood doesn't turn this thing into a casting call for AI-finalists exclusively. Switching the subject slightly, have you seen a production of Craig Wrights work 'The Pavilion'? I posted a thread about the play this past weekend.
#FactsMatter...your feelings not so much.
#39
Posted: 1/11/05 at 6:48pm
I think that casting anyone in the role of Effie that's not "bigger" would be detremental to whatever production or movie it was involved with. Eveyrone identifies so strongly with the original production/Jennifer Holliday. And also, with her being overweight, it only helps us care even more about that character, which is already a problem with that script. It's always been my feeling that Effie needed to be "not that attractive" compared to Deena, which is why Curtis turns his attention to her. Just my opinion.
Eeeeeeyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaannnnnddddd aaaaaaaiiiiiiiiyyyyyyaaaaaammmmmmmm teeeeeeeelllllliiiiiinnngg yyyyooooooouuuuuuuwwwaaaahh...
#40
Posted: 1/11/05 at 7:27pm
Ramona Keller, Frenchie Davis, and another woman who can sing!! and act!! not pretend acting a.k.a (JLO, Beyonce)please don't let that happen!! i would die and sue the company...lol..
ric
ric
#41
Posted: 1/11/05 at 7:29pm
Well, relatively few of us actually "saw" the original production with Jennifer Holliday for there to be some sort of strong "identification" with it (she only did it for a year and cancelled many dozens of performances in the process -- I was one of the lucky few that saw her). It's not like Streisand and Fanny Brice where there's not only the stage version, but the movie to link actress and role forever. There have been lots of great Effies over the years -- no disrespect to Holliday.
And sorry, but Michael Bennett, who knew better than anyone else who and what Effie was all about, cast for voice first and acting second -- size never entered into it. I saw the original production six times, each time with a different Effie -- some were heavy, some weren't -- and you know what? ALL of them stopped the show cold with "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going." I saw a standing ovation and people around me in tears all six times (after seeing it a few times, I realized that part of Bennett's genius was that he set that moment up so perfectly, from two scenes before, and set up this incredible momentum for the last 20 minutes of Act I, that whoever was playing Effie didn't have to sing the role anywhere near as well as Holliday to get that response -- most didn't; frankly, a trained seal could get a standing O playing Effie because Bennett had laid the groundwork for it to happen).
Case in point: Julia McGirt, who was a better actress and had more range than Jennifer Holliday (on the last verse of "I'm Not Going" she actually jumped an octave and sustained one of those "Meeeeeees" for 15 seconds a la Patti Labelle ...... wiping out the entire audience in the process), was in some ways was better Effie than Jennifer (Frank Rich re-reviewed the show with her and said she brought things out in the character that Holliday never did). Because she was also a first rate actress, it was almost even MORE painful to watch her rejection at the end of Act One, and her performance of "I Am Changing" in Act Two was actually superior to Holliday's because she brought subtle shadings and nuance that made you feel the regret of the character in the first half of the song and really believe the triumph by the climax at the end. McGirt's Effie was every bit as powerful as Holliday's (and she was easier to deal with than Holliday and she didn't miss performance -- all of which is why Bennett LOVED her .........) and she was thin.
And sorry, but Michael Bennett, who knew better than anyone else who and what Effie was all about, cast for voice first and acting second -- size never entered into it. I saw the original production six times, each time with a different Effie -- some were heavy, some weren't -- and you know what? ALL of them stopped the show cold with "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going." I saw a standing ovation and people around me in tears all six times (after seeing it a few times, I realized that part of Bennett's genius was that he set that moment up so perfectly, from two scenes before, and set up this incredible momentum for the last 20 minutes of Act I, that whoever was playing Effie didn't have to sing the role anywhere near as well as Holliday to get that response -- most didn't; frankly, a trained seal could get a standing O playing Effie because Bennett had laid the groundwork for it to happen).
Case in point: Julia McGirt, who was a better actress and had more range than Jennifer Holliday (on the last verse of "I'm Not Going" she actually jumped an octave and sustained one of those "Meeeeeees" for 15 seconds a la Patti Labelle ...... wiping out the entire audience in the process), was in some ways was better Effie than Jennifer (Frank Rich re-reviewed the show with her and said she brought things out in the character that Holliday never did). Because she was also a first rate actress, it was almost even MORE painful to watch her rejection at the end of Act One, and her performance of "I Am Changing" in Act Two was actually superior to Holliday's because she brought subtle shadings and nuance that made you feel the regret of the character in the first half of the song and really believe the triumph by the climax at the end. McGirt's Effie was every bit as powerful as Holliday's (and she was easier to deal with than Holliday and she didn't miss performance -- all of which is why Bennett LOVED her .........) and she was thin.
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie
[http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/]
"The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#42
Posted: 1/11/05 at 7:43pm
When I worked on a production of this show last year, our Effie wasn't much different in size than our Deena (We padded her a little for the scenes where it was necessary) but her voice was astronomical. It's about acting and singing ability, and I don't necessarily think Effie NEEDS to be a "bigger" woman. We already know that Curtis and Deena have something on the side, that Deena's look and voice are more commercial, and that Effie is pregnant, so there's already plenty of reasons for all the events to take place.
I love Dreamgirls. Bring on the movie! Now there's a score that needs to be shared with the world! I can't WAIT to see who gets cast as Jimmy:)
I love Dreamgirls. Bring on the movie! Now there's a score that needs to be shared with the world! I can't WAIT to see who gets cast as Jimmy:)
There's always room for pathos - and jazz hands.
#43
Posted: 1/11/05 at 7:45pm
My school is doing a production of Dream Girls this year. I was going to audition but I didnt know anything about it so I didnt. Kinda regretting that thought now. :-/
I wanted to get something that an "ex"-junkie like him would really appreciate and cherish....it's a brick of heroin shaped like a heart.
-Scrubs
#44
Posted: 1/11/05 at 7:48pm
I agree that Michael Bennett did set up the last minutes of act one pretty brilliantly. And I also believe that you should find someone that can sing the role first, rather than someone who can act it, but let me tell you, the acting sure can ruin the show. I saw it with Frenchie Davis and the end of act one was thrilling until she started "And I Am Telling You" because the girl can't act. Fabulous voice, but no acting. Her "I Am Changing" was also very stale because of her acting.
And I'm still sticking with my idea that Effie should be a big girl. I would have a hard time understanding why Curtis would betray Effie so whole-heartedly without her having some "fault" in Curtis' mind, which, to me, has always been her size. I'm pretty sure somewhere in that script it says, "Deena's the pretty one. But I have the voice." I guess she could not be bigger, but I still think she can't be looking like Halle Barry or anything. But if there's some woman out there who's skinny as a rail, but can sing and act the crap out of that part (hmm... Ramona Keller?), then let her have a go at it.
And I'm still sticking with my idea that Effie should be a big girl. I would have a hard time understanding why Curtis would betray Effie so whole-heartedly without her having some "fault" in Curtis' mind, which, to me, has always been her size. I'm pretty sure somewhere in that script it says, "Deena's the pretty one. But I have the voice." I guess she could not be bigger, but I still think she can't be looking like Halle Barry or anything. But if there's some woman out there who's skinny as a rail, but can sing and act the crap out of that part (hmm... Ramona Keller?), then let her have a go at it.
Eeeeeeyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaannnnnddddd aaaaaaaiiiiiiiiyyyyyyaaaaaammmmmmmm teeeeeeeelllllliiiiiinnngg yyyyooooooouuuuuuuwwwaaaahh...
#45
Posted: 1/11/05 at 7:52pm
bjivie2, I agree with you. In our production, our Effie may not have been big, but the girl playing Deena was astoundingly pretty and everyone else paled in comparison. It worked.:) I totally understand what you mean about her not being absolutely thin AND gorgeous. That wouldn't make sense. Cheers!
There's always room for pathos - and jazz hands.
#46
Posted: 1/11/05 at 8:21pm
Exactly. Effie, whatever she looks like, HAS to have a powerhouse gospel/R&B voice that's not pop-sounding and Deena HAS to be stunningly beautiful with a light sound or the show doesn't quite work. Remember, part of what Curtis sees in Deena is dollar signs -- Deena has to have a smooth, pretty "white-sounding" (with a little bit of soul) voice in order for the group to crossover to the pop charts, and be able to be turned into a glamorous-looking star so she can help them get into the segregated clubs and onto the magazine covers.
It's arguable whether Curtis ever feels anything romantically for either Effie or Deena -- he sleeps with Effie in order to become the Dreamettes' manager and to keep her in line, and then later pursues Deena when he knows he can fire Effie at anytime, make Deena the lead and turn the Dreams into the big crossover success he's been planning for. He sleeps with Deena in part to control her and manipulate her into rejecting her childhood friend, getting her to choose him and the Dreams over her (not that Effie's behavior doesn't make that decision a little easier for Deena).
I've seen Curtis played as a cold, slick, amoral, manipulative operator who doesn't care about or love anyone, but himself and seen it really work. Vondie Curtis-Hall (who replaced Harney) played it that way and when Deena was ready to leave him at the end and he sang a few lines of "When I First Saw You" to try and convince her to stay, you heard a round of catcalls from the audience -- they had seen through him and HATED him and when Deena walked out anyway they burst into applause.
And you're not the first to complain about Frenchie's acting (the reviews said the same thing) -- too bad really because she has quite a set of pipes on her. I hope she's working with a coach or something because she'll only go so far on voice alone if she wants to do stage (Holliday wasn't the world's greatest actress by any means, but Bennett worked with her intensely for months and basically beat a solid acting performance out of her).
It's arguable whether Curtis ever feels anything romantically for either Effie or Deena -- he sleeps with Effie in order to become the Dreamettes' manager and to keep her in line, and then later pursues Deena when he knows he can fire Effie at anytime, make Deena the lead and turn the Dreams into the big crossover success he's been planning for. He sleeps with Deena in part to control her and manipulate her into rejecting her childhood friend, getting her to choose him and the Dreams over her (not that Effie's behavior doesn't make that decision a little easier for Deena).
I've seen Curtis played as a cold, slick, amoral, manipulative operator who doesn't care about or love anyone, but himself and seen it really work. Vondie Curtis-Hall (who replaced Harney) played it that way and when Deena was ready to leave him at the end and he sang a few lines of "When I First Saw You" to try and convince her to stay, you heard a round of catcalls from the audience -- they had seen through him and HATED him and when Deena walked out anyway they burst into applause.
And you're not the first to complain about Frenchie's acting (the reviews said the same thing) -- too bad really because she has quite a set of pipes on her. I hope she's working with a coach or something because she'll only go so far on voice alone if she wants to do stage (Holliday wasn't the world's greatest actress by any means, but Bennett worked with her intensely for months and basically beat a solid acting performance out of her).
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie
[http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/]
"The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#47
Posted: 1/11/05 at 8:44pm
And I still wouldn't consider Holliday an actress, really. She's a PERFORMER, which is why (in many ways) she's so irreplacable in that role. No one will EVER do that role like her, and if they try they'll look like a jackass.
The other thing that didn't work about the West Coast tour was that Deena was an AMAZING singer. And so was Lorrell (Ramona Keller). In my opinion, they were both better than Frenchie, which totally undermined the entire plot. And while Frenchie is a wonderful singer, I don't think she had the "umph" in her voice to pull off the role. She mixes quite a bit, so if she were to belt more of the score to give it a more raw sound, that might help.
And your comments about Curtis and who he cares for are very obvious. It's just a matter of how the show is directed. I've sadly only seen the west coast tour, and it was directed in a way that Curtis truly cared for Deena, but then randomly decided to have animosity towards her in the final scenes, and it really didn't work. I can see how it would work better if he was just a villain the entire time, with him being more about success than love/relationships.
The other thing that didn't work about the West Coast tour was that Deena was an AMAZING singer. And so was Lorrell (Ramona Keller). In my opinion, they were both better than Frenchie, which totally undermined the entire plot. And while Frenchie is a wonderful singer, I don't think she had the "umph" in her voice to pull off the role. She mixes quite a bit, so if she were to belt more of the score to give it a more raw sound, that might help.
And your comments about Curtis and who he cares for are very obvious. It's just a matter of how the show is directed. I've sadly only seen the west coast tour, and it was directed in a way that Curtis truly cared for Deena, but then randomly decided to have animosity towards her in the final scenes, and it really didn't work. I can see how it would work better if he was just a villain the entire time, with him being more about success than love/relationships.
Eeeeeeyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaannnnnddddd aaaaaaaiiiiiiiiyyyyyyaaaaaammmmmmmm teeeeeeeelllllliiiiiinnngg yyyyooooooouuuuuuuwwwaaaahh...
#48
Posted: 1/11/05 at 9:09pm
You're definitely right about one thing -- the only time I've seen the show just not work at all was two times when Lorrell and Deena were better singers that actress playing Effie. One time, I saw the understudy's understudy's understudy (due to a combination of people blowing out their voices, vacation and a flu epidemic) who just wasn't ready and Loretta Devine, Debbie Burrell (who was playing Deena) and Clinton Derricks Carroll (Jimmy) walked off with the show that night. All the dynamics were off and when it became clear during "Heavy" that the Effie couldn't sing better than the Lorrell or Deena, the show didn't make any sense anymore (why NOT fire Effie?). The audience turned on the poor girl because it's bad enough being an obnoxious troublemaker, but to not be able to sing on top of it, there was no sympathy for her being dismissed.
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie
[http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/]
"The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#49
Posted: 1/11/05 at 9:13pm
I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo excited about this movie. I've grown up on that OBCR and it is most definately my all-time favourite show
That said Ramona Keller was a FANTASTIC Lorrell at the Fox Theatre Production a few years back with Jennifer Holliday and Norm Lewis
That cast was the definitive cast for me. Granted Ms.Holliday's voice was nowhere near what it used to be (And I Am Telling You was lowered significantly) but she is still one of the best voices out there.
Norm Lewis was also an amazing Curtis. Although Margo, I agree that the part can be played off as a cold, amoral person, what Mr.Lewis brought to the part was so much deeper than that.You saw that he did love Deena, but he suffered the inner struggle of choosing which was more important to him: his dreams or his love. And at the end when he sang "And oh how impossible it seems" he was in tears, because he knew he had lost everything by making the wrong choice. The audience went nuts and almost gave him a standing O, but then the chords for "It's Hard to Say Goodbye" began.
I will never forget that production. It was absolutely phenomenal.
That said Ramona Keller was a FANTASTIC Lorrell at the Fox Theatre Production a few years back with Jennifer Holliday and Norm Lewis
That cast was the definitive cast for me. Granted Ms.Holliday's voice was nowhere near what it used to be (And I Am Telling You was lowered significantly) but she is still one of the best voices out there.
Norm Lewis was also an amazing Curtis. Although Margo, I agree that the part can be played off as a cold, amoral person, what Mr.Lewis brought to the part was so much deeper than that.You saw that he did love Deena, but he suffered the inner struggle of choosing which was more important to him: his dreams or his love. And at the end when he sang "And oh how impossible it seems" he was in tears, because he knew he had lost everything by making the wrong choice. The audience went nuts and almost gave him a standing O, but then the chords for "It's Hard to Say Goodbye" began.
I will never forget that production. It was absolutely phenomenal.
Updated On: 1/11/05 at 09:13 PM
#50
Posted: 1/11/05 at 10:18pm
I think 30-something actresses can be cast. Jennifer Holliday did not look like a 20-year-old when she was in the show (and she was a 20-year-old at the time).
Now back to the casting. Fantasia? I don't think so. Halle Berry? No. How would it look if Halle lipped to someone else's vocals while everyone else lipped to their own?
The top 3 choices for Effie: Tarralyn Ramsey, Jennifer Hudson or Frenchie Davis. If you want to go slender, go with Trenyce. She is far from being a great beauty.
Jill Scott? Beyonce? Come on now.
Now back to the casting. Fantasia? I don't think so. Halle Berry? No. How would it look if Halle lipped to someone else's vocals while everyone else lipped to their own?
The top 3 choices for Effie: Tarralyn Ramsey, Jennifer Hudson or Frenchie Davis. If you want to go slender, go with Trenyce. She is far from being a great beauty.
Jill Scott? Beyonce? Come on now.
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