the overtures they are a-changin'

[zwielight]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 6:45pm

Why is it that many revivals tend to alter the overture (and sometimes major orchestrations)? Aside from key changes for stars... just to spice it up? I heard a "King and I" overture on the radio today and was really shocked at how different it was (I think it was the godawful animated version)

Any big reasons though why some medleys completely change their song selection?

[ALWrules]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 8:16pm

A lot of old overtures have been shortened down in recent revivals because overtures simply aren't as big as they used to be. They used to be long sweeping 6 minute medleys that set up the entire score for the show. But overtures are a little more old fashioned now; audiences just want to get right into the show. More modern composers like Sondheim and Webber shyed away from overtures for the most part, as they just wanted to get right into the show. I think many audience members, especially tourists, feel that they want the musical to start right away; apparently they don't care about the orchestra (sorry, as a pit veteran I'm a little defensive). Anyway, I think musical overtures are shorter and often altered because they are a little old fashioned for modern audiences.

[keatonbynumbers]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 8:29pm

The slow death of the overture was a pet peeve of mine for some time. I understand the absence of it in more modern musicals; after all, if the score doesn't call for an overture, I should hate if an overture was stuck in for no reason. But there are some scores in the musical theatre canon that contain some of the most beautiful music--right in the beginning. Depending on the day, if you ask me what my favorite song from GYPSY is, I might say "The overture."

I also understand a revival's right to alter the orchestrations (sensibly, of course; if this is a modernized revival, give me modernized orchestrations... but that's another rant for another time) and sometimes it seems the overture gets shortened or cut out altogether. I don't understand it. Is it our attention spans? I remember we watched WSS in a class one day and everyone kept urging the professor to fast forward past the prologue/overture. I was so upset. HOW can anyone watch West Side Story without sitting through the overture first? How is that a complete experience at all?

But I was mostly alone on that viewpoint and I guess it's just a shift in people's preferences.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 8:38pm

ALW, Phantom and Cats both had overtures, so he hardly "shyed away" from them.

[Katurian2]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 8:56pm

I don't mind revivals altering overtures, but I really hate when a show doesn't have them. It sort of, for me, is a way to tell those audience members who stand up until the last minute to SIT THE F*** DOWN! For instance, it RENT, the cast simply comes out and sings Seasons of Love without an Enterace and people talk through the first minute

Updated On: 3/28/06 at 08:56 PM

[bwayondabrain]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 8:58pm

i personally like modern overtures, and also do mind when a show doesnt have one

i think the perfect overture is for DIRTY ROTTEN SCOUNDRELS- its fun, sort of short, and allows you to get right into the story, while still keeping the overture

yeah, i hope that made sense...

[Ebonic_Singer]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 10:06pm

I love the feeling of the lights going down and an overture starting. I think if an overture is really amazing. audiences won't be bored--I remember the overture at Gypsy actually got applause (from the crazy trumpet solo).

[ALWrules]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 10:06pm

"ALW, Phantom and Cats both had overtures, so he hardly "shyed away" from them."

The "overtures" for both these shows are not overtures in the traditional sense of an orchestra medley. Both of those just present the main theme of the shows. They are not old-school orchestral overtures that most people are used to, just the main theme being introduced with music

[Pippin]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 11:29am

jesus christ superstar has an overture

[knows_too_much]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 11:33am

Still, not in the traditional sense.

[Pippin]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 11:48am

what do you mean? just like traditional overtures, it incorporates select themes from the show, and sets you up to the mood of the piece, and it lasts about 4 minutes. how is this different than other overtures? what, becuase it has an electric guitar and drums?

it is an overture, period.

Updated On: 3/29/06 at 11:48 AM

[knows_too_much]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 12:24pm

it is an overture, period.

You’re right I just went back and re-listened to it. I remembered it as having its own specific melody.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 12:39pm

The traditional Broadway overture was a suite based on 4-6 of the show's potential pop tunes.

Usually late in the rehearsals the composer, director and a few others would try and pick the possible hits or which songs would work best in orchestral form. The orchestrator would then fashion a 5 minute suite. If a song was cut in try-outs it would have to be edited from the overture. And sometimes a hit song emerged after opening night and was inserted into the Overture later. (Richard Rodgers had "I enjoy being a girl" added to the FLOWER DRUM SONG overture.)

In the 1960s and 70s, as the split began between popular music and theatre music, more shows began with an opening number: "Willkommen", "Aquarius", "Company", "I Hope I get it" etc. and in a way trained audiences to expect a cold start.

Even in regional and community theatres I have noticed that many people believe the Overture is just background music for their conversations. (They also sometimes feel the same way about the show but that's another matter.) In fact that led to the decision to cut the Overture to THE PRODUCERS down to a 30-second prelude. Now, if ever a musical comedy needs a traditional Overture it is that show. (The full Overture is on the cast album.)

There is a difference between an Overture and a prelude. A prelude is usually short thematic statement, so I tend to think of PHANTOM, CATS and most ALW shows as having preludes. I also consider DRS and PIAZZA's opening music to be more like preludes.

CAROUSEL does not have an Overture...The Carousel Waltz accompanies a staged pantomime.

How is the new Overture for PAJAMA GAME? The original has always been one of my favourites.

[Princeton78]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 12:47pm

Hasn't the PJ Game overture been severely cut?

[Calvin]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 12:56pm

Actually, I always thought the JCS overture was kinda lazy. It's just the entire trial by Pilate sequence (with the brief segue into the title song, just as it is in the sequence). Well, except for the very last bit, which works in the last moments of the first act.

But every production I've ever seen has had a pantomimed sequence during it, just like Carousel. Updated On: 3/29/06 at 12:56 PM

[Jon]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 5:16pm

Spamalot had a full overture duing the Chicago try-out. It had several musical "jokes" in it. From what I hear on the cast recording, it's now just a short prologue.

[cturtle]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 6:50pm

i think overtures are wonderful ... and a practical addition when the show starts on time.

[jo]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 6:57pm

ASPECTS OF LOVE had no overture.

It started with the male lead singing the show's main song - LOVE CHANGES EVERYTHING - to introduce the theme of the show and, de facto, serving as the overture.

Very effective --

Except if you were late coming in, you would have missed the show's musical highlight

[James2]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 8:29pm

Spamalot's overture is longer than it is on the cast album. At the Shubert, it starts with a regal fanfare, then the person blowing the horn is shot. He weakly tries to continue, then is shot again. Then the orchestra does the show-businessy overture that is on the CD.

[lilprima2b]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 8:45pm

I love overtures and entr'actes. I don't think a show, particularly a big production-y show, is complete without one. I love the feeling when the lights go down and the music starts... it's just wonderful. And the overture is a great psych-up for me when I'm in a show.

[sidneybruhl]

Posted: 3/30/06 at 5:01pm

I am such a big fan of overtures. My favorites are the overtures for "Gypsy," "My Fair Lady," and "Funny Girl." I'm directing a production of "My Fair Lady" this summer and will not cut one note of that glorious overture!

[WickedGeek28]

Posted: 3/30/06 at 5:26pm

To this day my favorite part of a night at the theatre is the rush you get when the lights dim and the overture starts.

this all started when i first saw Gypsy.

[allofmylife]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 12:40am

I saw Gypsy and will never forget it, even if I only was 6. What an overture.

In 1985, the revival of "On Your Toes" used the original Hans Spialek orchestrations - and Hans, who was 90-something at the time - supervised the reconstruction job. I believe they probably "fortified" an bit and certainly uptemoed and boosted the percussion, but I've heard the '37 recordings with Jack Whiting (Ray Bolger didn't record) and they sound pretty authentic.

The thing is, the orchestrations sizzle. Spialek also did Babes in Arms and Pal Joey and they have fabulous overtures (On Your Toes is wonderful).

Ted Chapin of the Rodgers and Hammerstein Organization said the sow was "an audio recreation of what audiences heard in 1936" and it was a real eye-opener for me.

[InfiniteTheaterFrenzy]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 1:27am

This thread is really interesting, and I just wanted to thank everyone for adding useful and fascinating information- especially frontrowcentre, thank you for the history lesson!