Strange Structure in Wicked Libretto- Page 2

[AnotherDay46]

Posted: 9/11/05 at 3:08am

Also, Galinda wanted to be taught magic by Madame Morrible, but she tells her that she doesn't hold her class every semester. But when she sees Elphaba's powers she wants to teach her. Of course Galinda would be upset that she didn't get what she wanted, that's her personality. So she held a grudge.

Also the fact that she's green and different holds a part.

[wickedkiwi]

Posted: 9/11/05 at 4:19am

i'm really suprised at the people who have nothing better to do than to take out their hatred on a musical. i mean really, get a life.

and, i know this is bww, but if your life actually REVOLVES around any one musical rather than the art form that musicals ARE, then you're not that much better off.

that said, i'm sure the book has it's flaws, but doesn't any musical? i wanna see anybody else try writing a 2 hour (??) show that handles so many characters, has to match a bestselling book and a classic movie, and includes quite a number of "show-stopping" songs - all about making us like one of the most detested villains in the history of pop culture. then i'd like to see the show actually make money.

wicked isn't shakespeare - but it wasn't meant to be, either. it has succeeded completely in it's aims, which were to provide an entertaining time while earning money and winning tonies for those involved. it's as if you were asking for mean girls or white chicks or any similar movie to be deeply moving, or for musicals like grease to actually have a point.

i think the made-up words give it a cute touch. the cogs are a reference to the time dragon clock in the book. abstract settings work because they save money and they let the audience imagine stuff. in fact, abstract books work for the same reason - they save time (for songs and dance numbers and etc) and lets each audience member fill in the blanks with their own personal ideas, feelings, and experiences.

plus, it doesn't matter whether WE think it's good or bad. it won i dunno how many tonies, got nominated for more, won a grammy, earned idina and kristen a gazillion pre-teen groupies, will prolly run for a very long time with a pretty full house, and it's earning everybody a LOT of dough. that sounds to me like a great musical.

if you wanna be artistic, a good musical strikes some sort of a chord inside you, it touches you. i think wicked has achieved that with a lot of people, so it fullfills that requirement too.

on another note, i read the parody script, found it quite funny (so thnx for the link) and will definetely pass it on to my friends. however, according to me, the original book never actually explains elphaba's powers other than "she's a child of both worlds", so it hardly matters if the musical does or doesn't.

that's my two cents.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 9/11/05 at 12:50pm

*headdesk*

We're not allowed to have an actual discussion on this musical, are we? The book has its flaws. It has a lot more than most musicals, and we're pointing out what could've made it better. It's allowed to be your favorite musical. That in NO WAY makes it perfect or off limits to criticism.

[wickedkiwi]

Posted: 9/11/05 at 1:39pm

i dunno, it's just annoying that everybody picks on this one show. i'm all for criticism and analysis, it's just annoying when people say stuff like o yea this writer sucks and this composer doesnt do his job right (for any musical) when i mean COME ON, like any of us can do better.

i guess i was reacting to the very bitter attitude in that little parody sketch more than anything. by all means, carry on.

ps. my favorite musical is aida ;P

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 9/11/05 at 3:17pm

Well, we kind of are saying the writer and composer did not do their jobs. Or...more like they could've done BETTER jobs. And maybe some of us could have done better, you never know.

But that's irrelevant anyway because even if we couldn't do a better job, there are probably other writers out there who could've, and don't we want theatre to be at its best?

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 9/11/05 at 4:01pm

Wicked is indeed a very entertaining and fun show, it is making lots of money, and it did propel Idina Menzel and Kristin Chenoweth to a status that neither had quite achieved with their previous roles. But we're not discussing that, this discussion is about how the book is not exactly brilliant, and I'm sorry but the novel does indeed provide more character background and depth than the show. Neither of us in this board has said that we could've done a better job, we're just giving an opinion and it's not necessarily on this one show, if you actually do a search, there are posts about the flaws/attributes of virtually every single Broadway show running at the time. Oh and if you know so much about Wicked, you should know that it didn't win "I don't know how many Tonies" because it only won three and none of us were Best Musical, Best Score, or Best Book.

[mygfdontliveincanada]

Posted: 9/12/05 at 3:05am

There is nowhere else for "What is This Feeling" to go. It has to be early on because if they took 20 minutes to show why Elphaba and Galinda hated eachother, it would not be believable that they became friends and remain friends for the rest of the show. Also, their hate of eachother is based off of superficial stuff. Just listen to the lyrics. It's based on "face, hair, clothing" and of course "blonde"ness.

And in regards to that comment that it's strange to have Elphaba go straight into "What is This Feeling" after completing "The Wizard and I," remember that Mimi in "Rent" goes straight into "Another Day" after singing "Out Tonight," in the same show Roger goes from "One Song Glory" into "Light My Candle," and the guy in "Moving Out" sings for two hours straight. Good performers should be able to handle this without any problems.

[Urban]

Posted: 9/12/05 at 5:59am

Having read the Gregory Maguire book (and loving it) years before the musical, this is one flaw I always overlooked because the book makes a better explaination as to why Galinda and Elphaba didn't like each other and that is/was in my head during that phase of the show.

[James2]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 12:41pm

While I like the show the way it is, I think I would have put the scene in Dillamond's class before "What Is This Feeling?".

[Jilani]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 1:02pm

I think the song works where it is partly because it's a funny twist on the idea of love at first sight (just look at many of the lyrics - they would fit that situation equally well), so as others have pointed out, it's based on the characters' superficial, visceral reactions to one another _before_ there's been a chance for any type of real relationship to develop between them.

On another note, while the depth of characterization in Wicked the musical is certainly worthy of debate, it seems unrealistic to me to hold up the depth of characterization in Wicked the novel as the standard of comparison. The two media are just very different, and I don't think any 2.5 hour musical could ever hope to achieve nearly the same depth of characterization as a 400-page novel.

[WickedGeek28]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 1:52pm

Most of the show just glides from song to song. Like the end of WHAT IS THIS FEELING, during the music bit at the end, the benches for Dillamond's class slide on and the students enter, so as Soon as Galinda screams, she sits down right after that.

[lfae]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 1:57pm

totally feel sorry for whoever's on as Elphaba, belting out TWAI and then going straight into WITF - I know the latter isn't a very demanding song, but STILL! TWAI sure is, she needs a break.

However, the song HAS to be early on - they're writing home to their parents, and the first thing they mention is the rooming assignments. You're gonna do that straight away, not wait a while. Especially if you're Galinda and you're that outraged

[QueenAnne82]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 2:16pm

It makes waaay more sense in the book. For one, Galinda get stuck with Elphaba. The coolest girl with the nerd. And E refueses to be impressed by Galinda. Galinda is really into being and "uplander" and of good breeding... elphie is not only the total opposite, but she doesn't care. It makes her mad. They grate on each other. I think sometimes that can happen alsost instantly.

[kidmanboy]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 2:32pm

a) the show is best looked at as having nothing to do with the Gregory Maguire novel.
b) Why does there need to be a scene to explain what the song is going to then talk about...isn't the point of a musical that music helps tell the story?
c) I think the song is appealing to that first moment you walk in and see your college roommate and they are never exactly what you think and you're just like, crap, I'm gonna hate them.

Sorry, this is my first time responding to a Wicked thread so i shall take out all my frustrations on all of you. I have no obsessions with Idina or Kristen, I'm just a New Yorker who likes to see shows and I happen to think that this is a wonderful show with a lot of deeper meaning than people give it credit for (the second act opener, for example, is so relevent to the "terrors" facing our country today. Personally, I think it wasn't the best show that year (that spot is left for Caroline, or Change) but I think it's sucessful both as pure popcorn entertainment, and as a theaterical piece. (and I'll be seeing it for a third time in February)

[yipper]

Posted: 9/15/05 at 3:04pm

I happen to love WICKED. One of the few blockbuster successes I really enjoy. Two things in the book puzzle me.

1. In the second act elphaba/nessa walks scene. Nessa starts to easily if slowly read the Grimerie which I was to understand was pretty much unreadalbe. Is her enchanted shoes that enable her to so without too much trouble. If the shoes are enchanted is that another reason why Elphaba wants the shoes back so desperately?

2. When Fiyero is hung in the cornfield, wouldn't Dorothy have already long been past the point where she could have meet the scarecrow?

Any thoughts?

[Emcee4ever]

Posted: 11/30/05 at 4:34pm

1: I don't know.

2: Well Dorothy DID have to walk.

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 11/30/05 at 8:45pm

I've never felt that that particular moment was a very big "flaw". In the scene after the opening, they establish everything the song says. I don't need to be spoonfed extra scenes of Galinda and Elphaba disliking each other. They pretty efficiently got it in there.

Then, during The Wizard and I, the staging and lyrics of the song demonstrate the revulsion of Elphaba's classmates for her and her wishes to be admired by them.
Then it jumps right into What Is This Feeling, which is both a fun song and pretty explicitly about how these two girls immediately started disliking each other without giving each other a chance. As someone pointed out, "Though I do admit it came on fast, still I do believe that it can last."
Even though he's running on autopilot sometimes with Wicked, Schwartz can layer his songs pretty efficiently. It's not a show written for adults and is fairly in keeping with the extremely light nature of the show and sets up Galinda and Elphaba's changes of heart.

I think that particular moment is actually very good structuring, they weren't wasting any time. The problem with the song is that it's just not necessary. It's kind of an inert book for a show. Nothing much really actually happens but so much ground is covered (which is inevitable in a musical when everything has to periodically stop for a song), and they spend a lot of time focusing on the less interesting aspects of the story which are endlessly interesting to teenaged girls who watch Degrassi and The Real World. Also, the show has to go out of its way to showcase Kristin Chenoweth, and there's really not THAT much material in the book to give her besides that.

Also, the cutesy words are a throwback to Yip Harburg, the guy who wrote the lyrics for the movie. Yip Harburg had his own whimsical vernacular that they don't really succeed in copying though.

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 11/30/05 at 9:45pm

I think its best to look at Wicked as the musical, not the book. the same I looked at the RENT movie as the movie, not the show on film.

[Lily2]

Posted: 11/30/05 at 11:45pm

I agree that this is kind of weird...maybe they just hated eachother whenthey saw eachother because Elphaba took away Galinda's chance of havein a good dormroom/roommate?

[Lily2]

Posted: 11/30/05 at 11:45pm

I agree that this is kind of weird...maybe they just hated eachother whenthey saw eachother because Elphaba took away Galinda's chance of havein a good dormroom/roommate?

[jessyk1065]

Posted: 11/30/05 at 11:52pm

That's an interesting point......I honestly never thought about it, I've seen the show twice and was so blown away by some of the people I've seen in it that I didn't question it, but you make a good point......that is one part of the book I would have liked to see developed a little more at that point in the show. Oh well. Oz can be a very confusifying place, I suppose

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 11/30/05 at 11:55pm

It is awkwardly placed, I agree. It just feels like there should be a scene between those two songs, maybe with them moving into the room or something.

I would have liked to have seen the San Fransisco previews where the show ran overlong, if only to see what they cut. I'm sure some of it would have accounted for the "holes" that are in the book now.

I think that it IS sort of an instant dislike between Elphaba and Galinda, though. Galinda is disgusted by Elphaba's complexion, lack of fashion sense, etc., and I would imagine that Galinda's cutesy, fake superficiality makes Elphaba want to puke. It's not literal hatred, obviously they're being pretty melodramatic, but it's definitely an instant dislike.