DEAR EVAN HANSEN Movie Musical - News & Discussion Thread- Page 35

[Hamilfan2]

Posted: 9/15/21 at 10:27pm

HeyMrMusic said: "Saw a sneak preview tonight. I think it would have worked better without the songs. I was uncomfortable from the start. The new song at the end was the only thing the movie did well. One thing the movie could have easily done is show the reach of social media and Evan’s rise in popularity, but that’s somehow more deftly done in the stage production. Overall, I sadly found this to be a miss. Ben Platt’s makeup for the balcony did not look good in those closeups. Oof."

You mention that it would’ve worked better without the songs, and that was absolutely one of my biggest problems with the film.  Not only were the songs all shot and executed exactly the same way (character sings while a montage plays) but the songs never feel natural or earned.  Part of this is because of the overly realistic and grounded tone they chose for this movie.  Musicals by definition have to exist in some kind of heightened reality, but this one doesn’t so it feels off.  I’m never one to ask “why are they singing” when watching a musical, but many times in this movie the transitions into songs just felt so out of place and really took me out of it.  I think ultimately it’s just not a musical that translates well to film.  

And totally agree that it was a missed opportunity in terms of the way they chose to represent social media’s part in the story. The scene where everyone gets a notification one their phone at the same time (they all not only don’t keep their phones on vibrate but also have the exact same notification sound too) is laughable in terms of how out of touch it seems.  Could’ve done some really cool visualizations of the internet and social media but it’s just another a missed opportunity.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 9/15/21 at 10:29pm

I think we were at the same preview tonight! My reaction was a complete 180 from yours, though.

[Ravenclaw]

Posted: 9/15/21 at 11:08pm

I saw the film tonight and enjoyed it more than the stage show. I still wouldn't say I loved it, but the changes to the script addressed many of my biggest criticisms of the show. I think fans of the musical will enjoy the film as well. I think the 1-star reviews and the hatred on twitter are a bit excessive, but then again, when has twitter ever been known to be a level-headed place for nuanced discourse?

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 9/15/21 at 11:10pm

I think we were all at the same show tonight lol.
When it ended, I was so confused as to what I just watched. Was that the same film critics had been describing as one of the worst films ever made? Because I saw a VERY well made movie musical tonight that far and away is better than so many musicals put on film in the past ten years or so. I suppose we should start with the elephant in the room which is Platt and his age. Is he too old to play this role? Personally, I think it's a bit more complicated than a yes or no answer in this case. A younger looking Evan would have looked incredibly awkward being romantically involved with Kaitlyn Dever (24 years old), who does look younger but not young enough that it would look normal if she acted against a child, as some want the role played by. The character of Evan is an 18 year old (guessing since it's his senior year in High School) so he's already not a child. So in the end, it was a trade off - we either get someone younger or we get Platt to recreate his Evan in the film and honestly, I'm happy we got Platt. And honestly, on the screen, somehow I felt it didn't look weird like it did in some of the trailers. Did they do some editing to it? I have no idea. I've said before I'm a big fan of this show. I've seen every Evan multiple times so after reading the reviews I thought it was going to be another "Into the Woods" where (in that case) my favorite show was ruined. Platt thankfully toned down/eliminated his mannerisms for the film that he used on stage. In a film, they wouldn't have worked so I suppose that's why we have the "hunching" that people have complained about - but I think it's a way to show his awkwardness without using the ticks and stuttering and the things he utilized on stage to portray it for the back row. So sure he's a bit too old but really, for me, I didn't care. He was just so damn good.

Thinking back to some of the reviews now, I think they just hated the source material and really nitpicked the film to death for the sole reason of wanting to hate it. And I have ZERO doubt others on this board, whether they'll admit it or not, will do the exact same thing. One thing harped on is what an awful person Evan is. The film manages to, early on, in closeups and little moments, show Evan's uncomfortableness and eventual acceptance of playing along with the lie in a way I felt you knew he was doing it for Amy Adams (who was EXCEPTIONAL).

One thing I was really not looking forward to was the addition to the new songs and taking out a couple I loved. "The Anonymous Ones", it turns out, is fantastic. I didn't understand why they gave a supporting character like Alana a song. But Stenberg brings something to that character I'd never seen before. It's a completely new take on her and makes her so relatable and sad and broken, which is when she sings that with Evan telling him they're the same. A beautiful moment. One song I was sad to lose was "To Break in a Glove" which I've always loved. It's now been turned into a scene so the emotional impact is mainly still there, at least.

My brain is fried tonight but if y'all have any questions ask away. I'm still kind of shocked I didn't find this the trainwreck everyone's saying (and will say) it is.

[Ravenclaw]

Posted: 9/15/21 at 11:53pm

I'm in the midwest, so I doubt we were at the same screening.

I'm not as over the moon with it as you are, but I agree with most of your sentiments. I think the online hatred has more to do with it being trendy and no critic wanting to be seen liking a film that twitter has declared bad. It's certainly no Cats. No, Ben Platt didn't look like a teenager, but neither does anyone else playing a teenager on tv or in movies. After about five minutes you forget about it and let it go. His physicality did bother me, though. Alana has a line in the new scene where Evan tells her he had no idea she struggled with depression and anxiety and she says that she keeps it well-hidden, like him. I was kind of baffled by that line because Platt's whole performance is centered around jittery, nervous gestures and keeping his eyes on the floor.

Overall, I thought Chbosky brought a lot of the same gentle touch he brought to the film of Wallflower, the main different for me is that Wallflower has, in my opinion, much better source material. This film is competently made and a faithful rendition of the story.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 9/15/21 at 11:53pm

How as Julianne Moore as Heidi? 

[Ravenclaw]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 12:04am

poisonivy2 said: "How as Julianne Moore as Heidi?"

I agree with what's been said before--the cuts make her really absent in the first half, but she delivers in the big moment. "So Big/So Small" was simple, honest, and lovely, exactly as it should be.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 12:05am

The character of Heidi is much smaller here than in the stage show. Honestly, i didn’t mind that. I always found Cynthia to be the more interesting Mother so getting more Amy Adams didn’t bother me at all. But the scenes Moore was in were very good. Her “So Big/So Small” was very touching. She sounded great and I still cried.

[Musical Master]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 12:35am

I'm glad I'm hearing reports that Moore is doing a very good job despite her role getting reduced, her and Kaitlyn Dever's vocal performances were the only things I was concerned about music wise. But it seems the two of them are doing a really good job alongside the other side characters.

It's nice to see some positive notices on here in comparison to the critics trashing from TIFF. Despite all that I'm still looking forward to seeing it, not my favorite musical of all time, but I can understand why other people like/love it at least.

[ClumsyDude15]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 1:19am

Jordan - Thank you so much for your review. I feel like there’s been a lot of snarky and hateful for the sake of being snarky and hateful reviews and what I’ve personally needed to hear is from people who like myself love the show. I very much appreciate you sharing your thoughts and I cannot wait to see the movie next week.

[bear88]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 4:56am

Jordan Catalano, I also appreciate your thoughts on the film because I feel like I haven’t heard from people who actually liked the stage musical.

The reviews have been so dominated by people who hate the source material and think Platt is miscast due to his age that it’s gotten annoying.

I didn’t love the stage musical as much as you did, but I thought it was well-executed and performed. I worried less about Platt’s age than his ability to tone down his stage mannerisms for a film. It sounds like he did that.

I am genuinely curious what I will think of the movie.

[seahag2]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 10:07am

I saw the Broadway production in 2019 and I really did not care for it. My main issues were with the tone, the character of Alana, and a less important complaint, but I really didn't like how Connor only existed through other people's interpretations and never spoke for himself. Was PLEASANTLY surprised that each of these items were fixed (to my liking, at least) in the film. I think the source material works way better on film. For me, the musical has too many abstractions for a story that I think needs realistic groundings in order for me to sympathize with Evan. I also thought Ben Platt gave a great performance. I can't remember who I saw in the role, and I'm not sure if it was because I was sitting in the back, or the actor wasn't doing it for me, but on stage Evan came off as shy, sure, but not exactly someone with debilitating anxiety, so it was hard for me to care about why this kid couldn't make friends. However in the film Platt's characterizations (and probably thanks to close ups and multiple camera shots) show Evan as a severely anxious kid suffering from mental illness that disrupts most aspects of his life. 

LOVED how they changed Alana. After leaving the theatre in 2019 I remember telling someone how I didn't understand Alana's motivations, she was self-serving, villainous, and existed just to make Evan's lie bigger. There needed to be a line thrown in about *why* she was so enthusiastic about the Connor Project that didn't have to do with her college applications (ex: family member lost to suicide, personally deals with depression, SOMETHING). Evan was at the mercy of Alana in the stage production and for no good reason. The way they expanded on her character, keeping in her high achieving attitude but taking out mentions of college apps and attributing her perfectionism with mental illness and neurodiversity was the way to go. Thought Amandla really knew what their character needed.

I have no idea why the reviews are as harsh as they are, then again maybe my review is easy on the film because I didn't like the musical and was glad to see they made adjustments for the medium. Ben Platt even said he was okay with songs being cut/reordered/added because he knew some conventions work better for the stage, and some cheapen the story when brought to the screen.

I found Evan Hansen to be a much more complex and forgiving character this go around. To the reviewers calling him a monster.... just go see the stage production and you'll change your tune.

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 10:38am

Can I just say something as someone who has critiqued the hell out of this property openly in this forum,

There is without question Ben Platt and Rachel Bay Jones gave two of the greatest live performances I've ever seen on broadway. But I'm also convinced their humanity and empathy in their performance would've made me go along with any stupid plot they were acting out. And the score is memorable! There are some really solid tunes.

When I've said the premise is icky and tone deaf and angering, part of what that comes from is as a person who has experienced multiple familial loss- I and am sure many others, truly cannot bear to watch Evan lie to the family. Cause the grieving they are going through is so intense and traumatic and spiraling and complicated, and he throws such a specific waste of time wrench into that long arduous often brain changing process and he's the one we have to follow the whole damn time and empathize with? It's the fact that he is ultimately belaboring the grieving process for an entire family and the writers are really keen for us to see HIS side of it. 

If the story was centered on Alana or Zoe or people who were caught in the storm of Evan's lie and activism and the commentary of how he explodes this and we see SOME of his perspective but not as the primary I think it would've been more compelling and the themes about performative social media activism could've been stronger. But the show is begging us to understand Evan front and center. 

When you suffer a loss in the family, you become aware of how flippantly writers in media throw around familial death in their writing for contrived reasons and a lot of it you bare with because you know they kill off a parent for story reasons so the kid is isolated, or so the ensemble of characters is paired down or as we mock in Disney, the obligatory mom killed off.

This though to me is the most egregious contrived thoughtless writing about grieving a familial loss I have ever seen. And part of it is Pasek and Paul walk away feeling confident with this "heartwarming, you will be found" show where they lightly dabble in "deep" moral greys and the Murphys who've endured hideous emotional manipulation are the ones who actually lose the most. 

 

 

Updated On: 9/16/21 at 10:38 AM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 10:53am

As someone who has suffered more loss in my family than I ever wish on anyone else, among them my brother named Evan, I find the argument that the story shouldn’t be told because what he did isn’t right, to be insane. I’ve said before - this is a work of fiction and the story tellers chose to focus on a VERY flawed character and tell his story. I can list a thousand films where the main character does something awful but does that mean the story shouldn’t be told?

That logic follows so much of what’s online right now which basically “cancel culture” of a fictional character. You don’t have to like what he did or even sympathize with his actions but to quote Evan Hansen, “It wasn’t real.”

[seahag2]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 10:53am

rattleNwoolypenguin said: "Can I just say something as someone who has critiqued the hell out of this property openly in this forum,

There is without question Ben Platt and Rachel Bay Jones gave two of the greatest live performances I've ever seen on broadway. But I'm also convinced their humanity and empathy in their performance would've made me go along with any stupid plot they were acting out. And the score is memorable! There are some really solid tunes.

When I've said the premise is icky and tone deaf and angering, part of what that comes from is as a person who has experienced multiple familial loss- I and am sure many others, truly cannot bear to watch Evan lie to the family. Cause the grieving they are going through is so intense and traumatic and spiraling and complicated, and he throws such a specific waste of time wrench into that long arduous often brain changing process and he's the one we have to follow the whole damn time and empathize with? It's the fact that he is ultimately belaboring the grieving process for an entire family and the writers are really keen for us to see HIS side of it.

If the story was centered on Alana or Zoe or people who were caught in the storm of Evan's lie and activism and the commentary of how he explodes this and we see SOME of his perspective but not as the primary I think it would've been more compelling and the themes about performative social media activism could've been stronger. But the show is begging us to understand Evan front and center.

When you suffer a loss in the family, you become aware of how flippantly writers in media throw aroundfamilial death in their writing for contrived reasons and a lot of it you bare with because you know they kill off a parent for story reasons so the kid is isolated, or so the ensemble of characters is paired down or as we mock in Disney, the obligatory mom killed off.

This though to me is the most egregious contrived thoughtless writing about grieving a familial loss I have ever seen. And part of it is Pasek and Paul walk away feeling confident with this "heartwarming, you will be found" show where they lightly dabble in "deep" moral greys and the Murphys who've endured hideous emotional manipulation are the ones who actually lose the most.



"

I agree so much with this... lol I know my previous review makes it sound like I liked the film, but I mostly liked how it was better than the musical T_T. Still think the source material itself, no matter how its presented, is quite poor (but if we're being forced to present it... it works better on screen). From the Arena production, to Broadway, to the movie, there are moments of insight from specifically Zoe and Alana that make you really wish the story was from multiple perspectives about how a community and a family grieves a loss, not just how Evan deals with it. 

Updated On: 9/16/21 at 10:53 AM

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 11:10am

Jordan Catalano said: "As someone who has suffered more loss in my family than I ever wish on anyone else, among them my brother named Evan, I find the argument that the story shouldn’t be told because what he did isn’t right, to be insane. I’ve said before - this is a work of fiction and the story tellers chose to focus on a VERY flawed character and tell his story. I can list a thousand films where the main character does something awful but does that mean the story shouldn’t be told?

 

First of all, there are absolutely some stories that don't need to be told. That's not cancel culture. There was gonna be a tv show about if the Union had lost the Civil War and slavery still continuing to modern day and they scrapped it cause enough people said nobody wants to endure that. I'm sure there are tons of fictional stories that you would never want to see. We certainly never see empathetic stories being told about pedophiles and that's for a reason. No one is screaming for a empathetic look into Jack the Ripper.

We have anti hero stories absolutely, but the audience is never being told to emotionally feel for Tony Soprano or Walter White completely. It treats their consequences and actions seriously and never lets them off the hook.

And you overlooked how I said if it pivoted the focus to Zoe and her enduring the storm Evan brings upon her family, it would be less tone deaf, you could easily still find empathy for Evan by putting him to the side. Maybe even moreso cause the audience gets a chance to decide what level of emotional connection they have to him.  

Furthermore, to be so disgusted by the premise alone regardless of the quality of the rest of the product is an absolutely fair critique of a piece of media. Cause at the end of the day, the point of media is to attract an audience to watch it. And if someone says "I don't want to watch a teen torture a grieving family for 2 hours" that's entirely fair.

 

Updated On: 9/16/21 at 11:10 AM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 11:25am

“ First of all, there are absolutely some stories that don't need to be told.”

But really - who are you to tell a writer, a filmmaker, a painter, any artist at all what’s acceptable for them to do? THAT is what I’m talking about - how people now feel like they have the right to “Minority Report” artists from even attempting something because TikTok will be offended. Nobody is telling you you have to watch or read anything. But for you to sit on that high horse and dare to say some stories, WHATEVER they may be, shouldn’t be told because YOU feel they shouldn’t. Don’t even say you’re not on a high horse if that is how you think.

And if someone wants to write a story about the civil war or yes even pedophiles - that’s up to them. And it’s up to US to then critique the art and even the artist. But to preemptively do it is like throwing a book in the fire and saying “you can’t take in what’s in those pages”. Good OR bad - it’s not up to you to decide what’s allowed to be written about.

[TaffyDavenport]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 11:36am

 

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 11:40am

I'm not saying it's up to me.

I'm saying the storyteller has a responsibility to get their audience to understand and hear out their perspective.

To me and many many others, they ultimately failed and worse they angered their audience. 

You can like it and I'm happy you do. A lot of people do. 

But when I say this story is infuriating as someone who's experienced family death to see it so flippantly explored in a surface level contrived way that's entirely valid even if you personally do not agree.

Parade is a musical that deals with an incredibly disturbing subject matter but it succeeds in that it's never telling me what to believe. It's just showing me the circumstances of an awful situation. It's never trying to get you to SIDE with Leo, but you see Leo's side as well as everyone's. It lets you live in the grey.

[Wick3]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 11:56am

To me, Ben Platt mainly looked older when he stood next to Nik Dodani, who can definitely pass as a 17-18 year old despite being the same age as Ben Platt (both born in 1993.)
Also some of the closeups didn’t help but other times in the film I thought Ben looked young. I’m not a fan of Evan’s hairstyle in the film though.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 12:00pm

No. You said “ First of all, there are absolutely some stories that don't need to be told.” Your quote. I don’t care if you liked or didn’t like this particular film or this particular story, you said some don’t “need” to be told.

And now I’m talking about art in general, not this film. An artist has zero responsibility to lay everything out for the audience to understand. That’s up to them, how they want to present what they make and yes, it’s up to you how you want to receive it. They have no right telling you how to react to it, just like you have no right telling them how they need to present it.

And again - I get you’ve had family loss. Same. Same with pretty much everyone else on the planet at one time or another. Everyone experiences it differently. Some get angry, some withdraw, some change their lives, some turn to drugs like my brother did until one day, they kill themselves. And then I, in return choose how to react to that. But this story isn’t written for me to feel comfortable with what’s being talked about. It’s written telling the story of this person and those families and how THEY deal with it. It has nothing to do with you or your comfort level.

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 12:14pm

Can I just say if 50 percent of the show was the lie, and it got exposed and the rest of the 50 percent of the story was him getting canceled and we got to see both sides of the coin,

Him getting canonized and the performative social media element and then later the toxic cesspool of twitter canceling and him being terrorized and humiliated on a national level and trying to survive that THAT would be compelling.

That would be a brilliant show. 

Updated On: 9/16/21 at 12:14 PM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 12:17pm

Then YOU tell that story. I’m not being facetious, if that’s the story you feel should be told then it’s up to you to tell it.

[Kitsune]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 12:18pm

I've also experienced family loss, specifically with suicide.

My sister and I took our mom to Dear Evan Hansen as a retirement gift a few years ago. My mom and sister LOVED it, whereas I was not a fan. But it made them happy, which made me happy. (And then we saw Come From Away later that night, which we all loved).

What soured me to Dear Evan Hansen was the way Zoe was treated. At every turn, I felt she was manipulated and denied her experience. She had a bad relationship with her brother, but her mom kept trying to force a narrative that she should be feeling loss. (Honestly, "Requiem" was one of the few songs that I felt hit the landing). Had Zoe been left alone, she could have mourned the relationship she never got to have with Connor, given his issues. But then Evan came in, invented a fiction, and denied her that experience. I've never been in the "Evan is a sociopath" camp. He's a teenager who made bad decisions that led him to more bad decisions. But he did do harm to Zoe. (Pardon me if I've gotten details wrong, it's been a few years).

Anyway, I'm glad that the musical brings people joy, and if the movie also makes people happy, that's cool too. 

In the mean time, I'll be over here in my 2017 Tony Awards sulk cave 

[seahag2]

Posted: 9/16/21 at 12:21pm

Rattle I'm not sure if you saw the movie but 

 

Click Here To Toggle Spoiler Content

in this version he publicly admits on instagram that he lied, which is a HUGE revision to the play. Granted, 50% of the film is not dedicated to him dealing with the fall out, it's maybe more like.... 5% of the plot toward the end. Of course, I too would have liked to see what a more nuanced and fleshed out aftermath would have looked like. The movie tries to address his attempts at harm reduction after his reveal but it is pretty rushed. In the film's world I'm SURE he's getting flamed to hell online but we don't get that social media notification flurry of a montage lmfaoooo

edit: idk if my spoiler was working but I'll repost text here. DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANT MOVIE SPOILERS (sorry this is sooo messy rip..)

in this version he publicly admits on instagram that he lied, which is a HUGE revision to the play. Granted, 50% of the film is not dedicated to him dealing with the fall out, it's maybe more like.... 5% of the plot toward the end. Of course, I too would have liked to see what a more nuanced and fleshed out aftermath would have looked like. The movie tries to address his attempts at harm reduction after his reveal but it is pretty rushed. In the film's world I'm SURE he's getting flamed to hell online but we don't get that social media notification flurry of a montage lmfaoooo

Updated On: 9/16/21 at 12:21 PM