DEAR EVAN HANSEN Movie Musical - News & Discussion Thread- Page 34

[Leaf Coneybear]

Posted: 9/13/21 at 12:59pm

poisonivy2 said: "I mean how old are Price and Cunningham supposed to be in BoM though? They're 18 right?"

They're both supposed to be around 19, so technically yes, but BoM is clearly more of a farce. It's a comedy, no one really has to believe that they are actually teenagers (in fact it's probably funnier because they aren't). When you're dealing with a morally ambiguous character like Evan, as others have mentioned, his being a child is a large part of the sympathy the audience feels for him: Kids are dumb! If we see a 27 year old pathologically lying it's harder to feel bad for him than if he's a teenager.

[Kad]

Posted: 9/13/21 at 1:18pm

I would not consider a high school upperclassman a "child," but rather a young adult. And I have a feeling a lot of audience members would feel the same: this is someone old enough to know what they're doing is wrong.

[Musical Master]

Posted: 9/13/21 at 3:17pm

Here's a question for either bfreak or Wick3: how was Julianne Moore as Heidi and how well did she sing "So Big/So Small"?

[Hamilfan2]

Posted: 9/13/21 at 3:21pm

Musical Master said: "Here's a question for either bfreak or Wick3: how was Julianne Moore as Heidi and how well did she sing "So Big/So Small"?"

I’ve seen the film as well and thought she was excellent as Heidi!  Her So Big/So Small is heartbreaking, one of the standout performances of the film imo

[bfreak]

Posted: 9/13/21 at 3:47pm

Musical Master said: "Here's a question for either bfreak or Wick3: how was Julianne Moore as Heidi and how well did she sing "So Big/So Small"?"

Julianne Moore did a really nice job with So Big/So Small.  Not her fault, but I felt like her character didn’t have as much of a presence in the film than in the musical (more focus on Cynthia and Larry). However, she delivered the song quite well and stuck the landing. 

[DEHFanatic]

Posted: 9/13/21 at 3:57pm

Musical Master said: "Here's a question for either bfreak or Wick3: how was Julianne Moore as Heidi and how well did she sing "So Big/So Small"?"

I'll throw in my $.02:  

I thought her performance overall was fine, given what she had to work with, but she did definitely nail SB/SS.

It was disappointing to see how much her role was cut.  There were so many scenes that were either drastically reduced or cut all together from the play.  You don't get the full sense of the relationship between the two of them like you do in the stage show.  Like the numerous times she asks Evan if he is ok on refills, the numerous times she says she's proud of him, those are all cut.  So when she does say she is proud of him at the end just the one time, it didn't have the same effect.

Also, the pivotal scenes of her finding out that Evan knew Connor (after she sees his speech online), and their confrontation after the dining room scene at the Murphy's, were both missing the intensity of the Heidi's I've seen perform live (including of course the cut song Good For You). 

I get that things are supposed to be toned down for film because it is a different medium, but in the stage show both those scenes have super intense back-and-forths, and she literally screams at one point, "I am your mother.  I AM YOUR MOTHER!" and that kind of passion is lacking in the film. 

[Wick3]

Posted: 9/13/21 at 4:04pm

DEHFanatic said: "I get that things are supposed to be toned down for film because it is a different medium, but in the stage show both those scenes have super intense back-and-forths, and she literally screams at one point, "I am your mother. I AM YOUR MOTHER!" and that kind of passion is lacking in the film."

I agree with you. When Heidi told Evan in the movie "You're the BEST thing that has ever happened to me." it didn't have the same emotional punch on me as it did while watching it onstage mainly because Heidi's character was less developed in the film compared to the stage version. 

I thought Julianne Moore sang SB/SS heartbreakingly well. 

 

[soulmistin]

Posted: 9/13/21 at 4:08pm

Kad said: "I would not consider a high school upperclassman a "child," but rather a young adult. And I have a feeling a lot of audience members would feel the same: this is someone old enough to know what they're doing is wrong."

I think one of the interesting parts about the show is that it seems the farther you are from Evan's age, the more sympathetic he is. I am in my 20s and was sort of just disgusted by Evan because I remember being that age and knowing that I or any of my friends definitely knew better. It seems an older crowd, generally 40+, want to baby Evan a bit more.

[Musical Master]

Posted: 9/13/21 at 4:26pm

Thanks for answering the question guys, can't wait to hear her version of what I consider to be one of the best songs of the whole show.

[Hamilfan2]

Posted: 9/13/21 at 4:41pm

DEHFanatic said: “and she literally screams at one point, "I am your mother. I AM YOUR MOTHER!" and that kind of passion is lacking in the film."

Completely unrelated, but that moment in the show for me will never not remind me of this SNL skit: https://youtu.be/HphFPQvAWHY

[Theatre Fan3]

Posted: 9/13/21 at 5:18pm

In case you haven't seen it ... here is a little "B-roll" footage ...

 

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 9/14/21 at 12:12pm

People make arguments for the morally grey perspective of this show and I think what hits me is that- the creative team did not have the deft hand to explore that truly. Cause somewhere in this show maybe there's a brilliant story about performative activism in social media and that hollow reality and where that comes from. The kinda story Sondheim might tackle in this day and age.

But they want the "You Will Be Found" show. They want that anthemic heartwarming teen pop cake and eat it too show. And that's where this all falls apart. This show is not brave enough to really understand the darkness beneath the platitudes. In their push to have us REALLY empathize with Evan and stay on his side it distances us. 

The writers are in a sense, the character of Alana (In the show). Well meaning but naive to the emotional reality and humanity in front of them.

Updated On: 9/14/21 at 12:12 PM

[Musical Master]

Posted: 9/14/21 at 1:07pm

Hit the nail right on the head.

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 9/14/21 at 9:49pm

“Sincerely, Me” is now available to stream.

https://youtu.be/gCWmtc_EY4s

[Ravenclaw]

Posted: 9/14/21 at 10:27pm

rattleNwoolypenguin said: "People make arguments for the morally grey perspective of this show and I think what hits me is that- the creative team did not have the deft hand to explore that truly. Cause somewhere in this show maybe there's a brilliant story about performative activism in social media and that hollow reality and where that comes from. The kinda story Sondheim might tackle in this day and age.

But they want the "You Will Be Found" show. They want that anthemic heartwarming teen pop cake and eat it too show. And that's where this all falls apart. This show is not brave enough to really understand the darkness beneath the platitudes. In their push to have us REALLY empathize with Evan and stay on his side it distances us.

The writers are in a sense, the character of Alana (In the show). Well meaning but naive to the emotional reality and humanity in front of them."

You see, I'm not sure that I agree with that entirely. The writers have said that the original idea of the show came from an experience one of them had losing a high school classmate and noticing all these people pretending to have been close friends with a kid they never knew, only after his death. The original idea was to write a dark satire about the ways people co-opt other people's grief. But as they wrote the show, they realized that they needed to take the characters' pain and grief more seriously while exploring these topics. In the context of the show, "You Will Be Found" is not about finding a place where you belong, but an ironic moment about Evan watching his situation spiral out of control. I think the problem is not in the writers' intent, but rather in the marketing of the show--playing this song out of context in the commercials, making it the hashtag, etc. leading audiences to think they would be seeing a heartwarming musical about overcoming depression when in fact the piece was something very different. And audiences who listened to the cast album before seeing the show I think must have received a similarly limited perspective of what the show actually is (which is not their fault, of course).

I'm reminded of the story from Everything Was Possible when Sondheim first sees Bennett's staging of "Who's That Woman"--Sondheim wrote the song with the intention of the dance featuring a hole in the formation, implying that one of the women has passed away in the time since they performed it 30 years prior. Bennett found that this concept wouldn't read with the six dancers he had (he would need 12 at least) so he scrapped it and came up with something else. Eventually Sondheim recognized what a genius piece of choreography Michael Bennett had come up with, but initially he yelled at Bennett, saying he never would have written such a simple, one-note little song if there weren't some distancing piece of irony to go with it. I see "You Will Be Found" the same way--I find it strange when I see it performed on tv and featured in commercials unironically because I think that negates the whole reason for the piece's existence. But I understand that many audiences are moved by that song on its most surface level, and I recognize that there can be value in that.

I'm not disagreeing with your general idea, though, I think the show ultimately drops the ball and rushes through its conclusion, ultimately not sure what it wants to say about its central premise. I think there are a lot of craft issues, from the premise which relies on at least five giant coincidences in the first ten minutes, to the abrupt finale that leaves so many threads hanging. But I honestly think that the morally grey musical is the one that they intended to write, and the morally grey moments are the ones that I find the most compelling about the piece. And I often get frustrated with (and I'm not saying that you are doing this, but in general) formal and structural critiques turning into moralizing.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 9/14/21 at 11:59pm

But "You Will Be Found" isn't performed ironically in the show? So why would it be performed anywhere else like that? I think the problem with the show is it's trying so hard to be earnest. And then you add in this like 40s/50s year old perspective on social media (via the creative team) that just feels false. I get some of the songs are pretty and "Good for You" is on my workout playlist, but I've just never understood this show's success. Especially the staging. Why they'd keep the tiny Second Stage staging and not expand it for Broadway always bothered me. It feels so tiny and doesn't suit the space. 

[Ravenclaw]

Posted: 9/15/21 at 12:11am

What I meant is that the way that song is staged by Greif in the show, as the chorus builds and the ensemble vocals come in and the speech goes viral, the focus is on Evan watching it spiral out of control. We are not receiving the words free of comment, but rather we are watching Evan's reaction as he is thrust into the spotlight and realizes that there's no way to contain the lie anymore. The earnestness of the song is undercut by a feeling of dread, knowing that the more this positive message spreads, the deeper Evan's problem becomes. Not that the characters sing it ironically, but that the situation is ironic. When it's taken out of context, there's none of that. 

For what it's worth, I don't even like the show very much, but I find some of the criticism I've read of the show in the last couple years (and I'm not pointing fingers at you or the other poster I responded to, but mainly people I've spoken to in real life or read on social media) to be in bad faith and poorly thought out.

[BwayLB]

Posted: 9/15/21 at 1:32am

With all due respect, You Will Be Found isn’t entirely ironic

[bfreak]

Posted: 9/15/21 at 7:44am

Ravenclaw said: "What I meant is that the way that song is staged by Greif in the show, as the chorus builds and the ensemble vocals come in and the speech goes viral, the focus is on Evan watching it spiral out of control. We are not receiving the words free of comment, but rather we are watching Evan's reaction as he is thrust into the spotlight and realizes that there's no way to contain the lie anymore. The earnestness of the song is undercut by a feeling of dread, knowing that the more this positive message spreads, the deeper Evan's problem becomes. Not that the characters sing it ironically, but that the situation is ironic. When it's taken out of context, there's none of that.

For what it's worth, I don't even like the show very much, but I find some of the criticism I've read of the show in the last couple years (and I'm not pointing fingers at you or the other poster I responded to, but mainly people I've spoken to in real life or read on social media) to be in bad faith and poorly thought out."


I agree with this. The first time I saw it on Broadway, when I had no clue what to expect, my initial gut instinct at intermission was “Oh wow, I see where this is going, the emotional consequences all around for what has just occurred are going to immense!”, not “Yes, I love how much Evan is accepted now because he lied to Connor’s family and now to the whole world.”

[Theatre Fan3]

Posted: 9/15/21 at 9:39am

Wow, this is from Variety????

‘Dear Evan Hansen’: A Letter to Oscar Voters

[JSquared2]

Posted: 9/15/21 at 11:37am

Theatre Fan3 said: "Wow, this is from Variety????

‘Dear Evan Hansen’: A Letter to Oscar Voters"

I imagine Clayton Davis thinks that this "open letter" is his "audition piece" to become the next John Simon.  What. A. D*ck.

 

[ColorTheHours048]

Posted: 9/15/21 at 12:15pm

JSquared2 said: "Theatre Fan3 said: "Wow, this is from Variety????

‘Dear Evan Hansen’: A Letter to Oscar Voters"

I imagine Clayton Davis thinks that this "open letter"is his "audition piece" to become the next John Simon. What. A. D*ck.

"

He may be a d*ck, but he’s also speaking my thoughts into b*tchy words.

[jlindsey865]

Posted: 9/15/21 at 12:31pm

JSquared2 said: "Theatre Fan3 said: "Wow, this is from Variety????

‘Dear Evan Hansen’: A Letter to Oscar Voters"

I imagine Clayton Davis thinks that this "open letter"is his "audition piece" to become the next John Simon. What. A. D*ck.

"

I admittedly don't know much about Clayton Davis, so it's very possible he is what you say he is based on other instances.  I don't agree that this letter makes him any different than any other reviewer in the country.  Also, I agree with a lot of things that he says and found that the fact that he modeled after Evan's letters in the show and subsequent movie to be rather clever.

 

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 9/15/21 at 1:28pm

As for "You Will Be Found" being ironic. Again it's having the cake and eat it too. Either make the meta commentary and make it clear the song is hollow or have your anthemic inspiring ballad. They try to do both and the anthemic element wins out. And clearly the way they've marketed the show they want it to win out.

I think in the end it makes it "deep" and not deep.

Updated On: 9/15/21 at 01:28 PM

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 9/15/21 at 10:06pm

Saw a sneak preview tonight. I think it would have worked better without the songs. I was uncomfortable from the start. The new song at the end was the only thing the movie did well. One thing the movie could have easily done is show the reach of social media and Evan’s rise in popularity, but that’s somehow more deftly done in the stage production. Overall, I sadly found this to be a miss. Ben Platt’s makeup for the balcony did not look good in those closeups. Oof.