Wicked: Crap for the masses, or something worth seeing?- Page 2

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 7/12/14 at 8:57pm

Wicked is Cats with a college education.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 7/12/14 at 9:02pm

Really?

I mean...TS Eliot v. Schwartz and some woman who wrote for "My So-Called Life," a show that only mid-30 year-old women remember and never grew out of?

Updated On: 7/12/14 at 09:02 PM

[delongpre]

Posted: 7/12/14 at 9:10pm

Wicked is incredibly well put-together theater. It is NOT the book. It is NOT the movie. It stands alone as a terrific piece of work. Go and enjoy watching the characters, listen to the powerful and tender music. There are moments of spectacle and moments of intrigue. Just go and experience it. In my opinion you cannot ask someone here to tell you if it is good or bad. You must see it for yourself.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 7/12/14 at 9:17pm

"In my opinion you cannot ask someone here to tell you if it is good or bad. You must see it for yourself."

And yet you tried.

[FishermanBob]

Posted: 7/12/14 at 9:23pm

I saw the L.A. sit down production in 2008 and really enjoyed it, thought it was well done and very entertaining. But no, I never bought the CD and don't sit around listening to the cast recording every day (that's reserved for Mamma Mia).

But as is the norm around here, it's not enough just to say I didn't like something. It must be proclaimed complete crap, totally beneath me and anyone who likes it, not only has no taste in theater but is a fool in general. The fact remains, it's one of the most successful and popular shows in Broadway history and millions have enjoyed it around the world. But that's the masses for you. What the hell do they know. If I didn't need my pool cleaned and my limo driven, I'd have no use for them at all.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 7/12/14 at 10:03pm

Clearly some people don't understand the meaning of the word "current." There's no way that I will accept an argument attempting to prove that a book by Winnie Holzman and lyrics by Stephen Schwartz have more artistic merit than poetry by T.S. Eliot. I fully acknowledge that Cats utilized spectacle to help sell the show and nowhere in my original post did I say that there was necessarily anything wrong with that. It's clearly a formula that works it's just not always as satisfying as a piece with a little bit more depth.

[sabrelady]

Posted: 7/12/14 at 10:36pm

Liked it w the original cast. I've seen the tours ( to see/hear specific performers) and it's become more dilute w each one. It's tracks and recreate the originals . meh.

The lyrics DO suck it sometimes (There are bridges you cross
You didn't know you crossed
Until you've crossed)

But "I'm Not That Girl is lovely (I feel)
"
She who's winsome
She wins him
There's a girl I know,
She loves hims
so
I'm not that girl"

[Musical Master]

Posted: 7/12/14 at 10:49pm

I think it's okay, nothing to really write home about. If people don't want to watch it or they do... It's their choice.

[mjohnson2]

Posted: 7/12/14 at 10:57pm

It's a really fun show, if not the best crafted one ever written. Plus, it really invigorated the popularity of the American theatre and brings a lot of people into the world of the theatre, which makes it worthwhile.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 7/12/14 at 11:00pm

I agree. And I liked that it attempted to evaluate the more complicated relationships between women (even if it's done on a really shallow way) rather than focus too much of the love story. However, I still hate that there was a love triangle in the plot. There were much more interesting avenues the Glinda/Elphaba conflict could have went, but it may not have hit a cord with young girls (though the Elphaba being the unpopular girl who is misunderstood went a long way in doing that).

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 7/12/14 at 11:14pm

The book is literary masterpiece.
The musical is commercialized theme park entertainment.

[icecreambenjamin]

Posted: 7/12/14 at 11:34pm

Sometimes I wish someone else had written the music for Wicked. ALW could have done a great job with it and Sondheim could have done a beautifully sophisticated Wicked.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 7/12/14 at 11:43pm

I agree. The source material lends itself to a much more sophisticated adaptation that didn't treat its characters like caricatures. But then, that adaptation probably would have lasted one year (tops).

[icecreambenjamin]

Posted: 7/12/14 at 11:52pm

It might last a year but we would have a beautiful piece of art.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 7/13/14 at 12:08am

Saw Wicked for the umpteenth time recently, taking an old friend. The story, with it's plot holes is pretty well crafted. Many of the plot holes comes from the scenes they deleted after the SF try out. I did feel it is starting to feel a bit dated with the Bush era politics references and malapropisms.

There are quite a few stand out songs, some pretty damn good despite sometimes crappy lyrics.

My suggestion is go see the cultural phenomenon and judge for yourself. Then read the book. Go in with NO EXPECTATIONS!

[Wickedlover56]

Posted: 7/13/14 at 12:15am

Bwayphreak234, I honestly have to disagree with you. I think Wicked is a very well crafted musical. Is it perfect? No, but it is a fantastic show that deserves more critical praise. The score is wonderful, save for a handful of clunkers. The book is great. Matilda is smart, but Wicked is intellectual. The characters are believable and many are sympathetic. Elphaba, Glinda, Fieyro, and Nessa all have great character arcs. The spectacle serves to enhance, not to shadow the plot. Just because the show is popular does not mean it is automatically dreck. Les Mis, Matilda, Book of Mormon, West Side Story, and Spring Awakening all are or were major hits, but no one would ever dare call them bad. It just shows how you don't really know Wicked that well and are just being a pretentious theatre snob. I know many people who agree with me. For instance: http://www.chriscaggiano.com/2011/03/the-most-underrated-musical-spring-2011.html

[Sally Durant Plummer]

Posted: 7/13/14 at 12:18am

But if Sondheim wrote Wicked, we wouldn't have the best song ever written "Defying Gravity"!! What else would every girl under 30 sing at their auditions? How would we survive without every girl pretending to be Idina Menzel from the OBCR? How, I ask? HOW????!!!!!!

Updated On: 7/13/14 at 12:18 AM

[icecreambenjamin]

Posted: 7/13/14 at 12:19am

^HA

[blaxx]

Posted: 7/13/14 at 12:22am

Love, Wicked is as intellectual as Lindsay Lohan would be after three weeks of straight partying.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 7/13/14 at 12:37am

Wicked does attempt to tackle on a slew of issues, but it really doesn't do it well. Yes, it touches upon a being unloved, a privileged person gaining awareness, corrupt ruler behind closed doors basically making a career out of faking it, society being fooled by the powers that be that the "good" person rebelling against them is actually wicked, and having to decide whether or not you want to live on the outskirts of a society you don't agree with vs. becoming a part of the status quo.

However, I find the execution of telling such themes to be very simplistic. Simple can be good, but not the way the book of this musical was written. Motivations are never really explained, characters are defined by one trait, the conflicts between characters hinges on things only teens really care about like Glinda being angry at Elphaba because of Fiyero despite having a whole career ahead of her and maybe having other things to be upset about…like for Elphaba abandoning her but not really doing anything with her life. For a rebel, Elphaba is just stewing in the mountains and exploiting the very monkeys she freed…oh and scaring people.

Nessa is obsessed with Boq but why? Because she's in a wheelchair and therefore has no self-esteem despite having friends, being smart enough to be accepted to college, and having a father who actually loved her? Her personality has no real explanation other than the writer expected you to think the wheelchair is the only explanation you need. Also, why did Boq stay with Nessa? Because Glinda asked him to dance with her once? That's realistic. Why did Fiyero become Glinda's boyfriend after Elphaba left? I forgot that she's the only option he has, right. Speaking of Fiyero, did they explain what he was doing with Dorothy and why did he decide to travel with her and play along with the wizard? Also, the happy ending…wouldn't people recognize her with her green skin and all. Obviously people hated her because of her skin color (as evidenced by how she was so mistreated by everyone she met…strangers at the train station, her father, her classmates in college, society easily believing she was wicked, etc). Why wouldn't that continue elsewhere?

Anyway, the line in "No One Mourns the Wicked" where Glinda asks if wickedness was something people were born with or if it was just thrust upon them would have been a much deeper and interesting theme. And by having wickedness thrust upon them, I don't mean having the Wizard's PR lady (what was Morrible's role again?) convince people a person is wicked. Speaking of Morrible's role in the Wizard's regime…how was the government of Oz set up?

Btw, did Glinda have magic powers of her own? The musical is confusing on that point. IT seems like everything she had (like the bubble) was just invented. We never seen her have any other power. What was Morrible's power and why was she qualified to teach magic? Why did Elphaba have strong powers? Yes I know she was a product of the wizard and her mom, but that doesn't really explain anything. Also, if she doesn't know what the spells mean, what is she chanting in "No Good Deed"…also what is the motivation behind that song. What good deed did she really attempt to do? I know she went to go see Nessa because she thought she was in danger, but that's not really a good deed. I know the song is really about her being so angry that her boyfriend (or guy she's sleeping with who is cheating on who was supposed to be her best friend) is getting tortured so she's going to adopt the wicked persona because she now hates the world because she thinks she lost a loved one…but that doesn't really match the lyrics. Plus do people decide to become enemies of the state due to grief over losing a loved one outside sociopaths?

What was the message of the musical? To not judge people on first appearances? To go against the status quo but not do anything but hope your friend who looks the part will start implementing changes? That people are corrupt? If it's that, then what? The true path to happiness is having a boyfriend? Things are ok as long as you're with your lover it seems…even if he has a scarecrow and you're pretty much homeless.

So yes, Wicked touches upon a few weighty (or would-be weighty) subjects, but it doesn't really delve deeply into anything.

Updated On: 7/13/14 at 12:37 AM

[LittleEdieFan]

Posted: 7/13/14 at 12:45am

If you like it you'll keep going to see it. If you don't like it you'll stop going to see it. Both options are correct.

[SweetLips]

Posted: 7/13/14 at 1:00am

Can't wait to hear back from the OP what he/she has decided to do-go or not go-I'm sooooo confused. Decisions !

[delongpre]

Posted: 7/13/14 at 1:12am

VIETgrlTerifa "And yet you tried."

Um, what I said was In my opinion you cannot ASK someone here to tell you if it is good or bad. You must see it for yourself."

I never said you cannot tell someone what you think about it. : )

[ajh]

Posted: 7/13/14 at 5:07am

Overall I liked the show a lot more before I went back and read the novel and realised how much of the edge had been blunted and the politics had been fudged. It would also have been interesting, although possibly a turn off to commercial audiences, had the musical's production team had the courage of Gregory Magiore's convictions and made Elphaba physically ugly. Idina Menzel and her successors have all been gorgeous. Green but gorgeous. To have Fiyero choose a genuinely unattractive woman over the beautiful Glinda would have been genuinely powerful I think.

Putting aside comparisons with the book and judging Wicked purely as a musical I would say that I find it pretty patchy. There are holes in the plot and some appallingly clunky bits of staging (Boq's transformation is the sort of thing that should have been rethought in previews yet is performed the same way the world over...."oh his hearts going to explode, I know, I'll push him in a wheelchair behind that conveniently placed armoire...no idea why...."). Even the end of Act One, which is thrilling because Defying Gravity is a cracking number, could be staged better IMHO. The witch riding on her broomstick is an iconic image from The Wizard Of Oz and they should have found a way to recreate that onstage (even the hugely mediocre Andrew Lloyd Webber stage version approximates it).

I have no arguments with the set, costume and lighting design all of which are lavish and inventive. I find some of the shoehorning of WoOz elements into the book to be cack handed and tiresome at times and the score is, for me, a mixed bag of glorious modern musical theatre (the majority of it, to be fair) and snoozefest (most of the Wizard's material, unfortunately). In terms of how the show plays I wish I was sufficiently versed in a foreign language to see, say,the Dutch, Danish or Korean production to see how the Americanisms work. I say that because to me one of the biggest flaws of the London production of WIcked is the inconsistency of the accents. The show is basically written in an American idiom which means that some of Glinda's jokes don't quite land and lyrics don't quite fly (the "gee I know somebody'd be my hero" always jars on me) when delivered in a posh Brit accent, despite the best efforts of some of the very talented women who have performed the role in the West End (Gina Beck who is now doing the US 1st Nat'l tour is particularly good, although I understand she IS playing it American now). It was only when I saw a bootleg DVD of Cheno on B'way and then saw live the glorious Lucy Durack in the Aussie production (where they have retained the American accents throughout) that I realised just how different it is.

Anyway, I digress. I definitely think Wicked is worth seeing and it has much to enjoy. It is a good,not a great, show which when it soars, really does soar, and also has some fairly blank stretches. It clearly touches a chord with many people in the way that a lot of artistically superior (always a debatable point, I know) musicals (most of Sondheim, some Jason Robert Brown) apparently do not.....I definitely think that the Tony committee in whatever year it was made the right decision re the Best Musical prize.

Updated On: 7/13/14 at 05:07 AM

[PeterPan2]

Posted: 7/13/14 at 8:31am

I know a lot of people hate wicked but it's because it produces such annoying fans like they are always a bunch if girls trying to belt defying gravity and thinking they can when in reality it sounds like a dying cat